church of Christ or church of God

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January 20th, 2017, 5:48 pm #11

I think William that this thread results from the frequent discussion whether Jesus is God. That's why Dave introduced it.

Name of the church is just an outlet for that debate.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 20th, 2017, 6:43 pm #12

Paul used forms of "synagogue" in assemble, gather or come together. Ekklesia identifies the Greek group at a location also called the ekklesia.

However the Pupose for which we come together is defined by Jesus as to command and teach what He commanded: that was by the Spirit OF Christ in the prophets and apostles who were eye-- and ear witnesses.

Eph. 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Building up or edifying is defined as education. If Christ is the foundation revealed by the prophets and apostles why would anyone not to call it the Church of Christ?

Heb. 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Then why not CONFESS Christ so that He will confess you? Most denominations are not built upon Christ as the only Teacher of the Regulative Principle for faith and practices and therefore have to add or confess their peculiar practices based on traditions of church councils. It does make a difference and a well-defined Church of Christ does not and need not grow limp and ecumenical about a WAY that is called a SECT. Thar is a road or pattern which is very narrow and only a tiny number walk in it. The Kosmos or Ecumenical is the "kingdom of the Devil" and it is a brood way that leads to destruction.

A Christian is a Disciple is a Student of the WORD which is the logos or regulative principle: that excludes rhetoric, singing or playing instruments.

God gave Jesus whom He made to be Lord and Christ to be the HEAD of the church. He is the Head of the Body and King of the kingdom. We might wonder about people who want to remove CHRIST from their public confession since God gave Him all authority under the name of Christ the Lord.

Col. 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col. 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col. 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in Go
Col. 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory

Col. 3:16 Let the WORD of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Col. 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

The Purpose Driven the Campbells was to make the Church the SCHOOL of Christ and worship as Reading and Musing the Word of god. That was the pattern for the Church in the wilderness and that never changed. Down through history when men had to identify themselves (as we have names), they usually identified their purpose as A Church of Christ.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on January 20th, 2017, 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 22nd, 2017, 4:41 am #13

Acts 20
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


Bad translation? Slip up?

OR, without a shadow of a doubt.....the INSPIRED Word of GOD!!!

HALELLUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Ever heard the saying 'what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine?'
Disputing what you call the institution, like music, makes the lambs dumb before the slaughter because it HIDES the meaning of a Christ-Driven ekklesia with a one-piece pattern with no legal funding or fundees.

The Synagogue or Church in the Wilderness quarantined the Civil-Military-Clergy whom God had turned over to worship the starry host. That was the mark and means of driving God's enemies into Hell with the sounds (not music) of wind, string and percussion instruments. These were the instruments Lucifer called the Singing and Harp-Playing prostitute brought into the garden of Eden. both Tyre and Jerusalem were doomed to be driven into hell in the same way the Jews had performed HOLOCAUST upon innocent animals and infants.



<font face="arial" size="4">You cannot worship in the presence of those selling themselves to perform rhetoric, singing or playing instruments (Jesus called them hypocrites). According to the NOT unity in diversity Ephesians 4 they are OF the World and not part of the Little Flock or the WAY that is called a SECT which is narrow and exclusive.

The synagogue assembled to hear the WORD (Dabar-Logos regulative principle) PREACHED by being READ for comfort and doctrine. Anything beyond being a School of the Word as the product of Baptismos is a cult. Notice that Scripture leaves MARKS or Ways to Escape which cannot be refuted.



<font face="arial" size="4">If you FEED THEM you are co-conspirators and ENABLERS.

Eph. 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph. 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph. 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph. 4:21 If so be that ye have HEARD him, and have been taught BY him, as the truth is IN Jesus:
Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;


The leaders of the blind are not just blind and blinded but Paul says of the speakers, singers or instrument players (cunning craftsmen) that THEY ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

Anything beyond the commanded "that which is written for our LEARNING" is the lies of those Jude says are FOREORDAINED and almost everyone will join in the happy band.


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William
William

January 22nd, 2017, 7:07 am #14

I think William that this thread results from the frequent discussion whether Jesus is God. That's why Dave introduced it.

Name of the church is just an outlet for that debate.
I got that. But like much else in the NT there was a then and we apply a now. I have concluded that the "names" of the assemblies in the N.T. are as much descriptions than names, and that the "names" are generally irrelevant. To write " the church of God" the writer had to be writing to someone who would know which god. I am not the world's best grammarian, and I am not too sure about the Greek, but in English I believe "church" is the nominative and "God" is the object of the preposition "of". It tells us whose assembly it was. So "to the church OF GOD which is at Corinth, those who have been sanctified in CHRIST JESUS, saints..." (1 Cor 1:2) does not actually give a name for the church. Certainly, such do not admit to curious arguments regarding "trinity". I only see one place where a name was actually applied: "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." Acts 11:26. When told not to "forsake the assembling", or as we like to misapply when someone goes boating on Sunday morning, not to forsake the assembly, we do not have to worry about in whose name we are assembling. Dave could probably do better.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 22nd, 2017, 4:45 pm #15

Individual Disciples are called Christians and disciples are STUDENTS of Christ. However, the actual assembly, gathering or coming together uses synagogue words. A synagogue gathering confessed the Shema or "there is ONE God". The "church" confesses the Death of Jesus Christ which silences any self-authoring of songs or sermons. To violate that is to despise the Word of Jesus Christ which is God's Word.

Col. 3:16 Let the WORD [LOGOS] of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; TEACHING and admonishing [put in mind] one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord

Col. 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the NAME of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.


No one had any doubt about the Church of Christ:

Matt. 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Matt. 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the SON of the living God.
Matt. 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt. 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock
I will BUILD MY CHURCH; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Build or Edify means EDUCATE
instructing, edification. Absolute: loquitur ad Aedificationem Ecclesiae, Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 12 ; ib. Eph. 4, 12.

Hyper Dictionary
Edification n. [L. aedificatio: cf. F. ['e]dification.
1. The act of edifying, or the state of being edified; a building up, especially in a moral or spiritual sense; moral, intellectual, or spiritual improvement; instruction. The assured edification of his church. --Bp. Hall.

WordNet [n] uplifting enlightenment
Definition [n] education that results in understanding and the spread of knowledge


Matt. 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matt. 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.


I don't know how you trump the statement of Jesus the Christ by making someone or some thing your PUBLIC CONFESSION. Peter used the KEYS to enter into the Church Jesus Christ called MY CHURCH by commanding repentance and baptism.

Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


Jesus the Christ promised to build HIS Church based on His role as CHRIST.

Acts 2:47 Praising [telling the story] God, and having favour with all the people.
And the Lord [Jesus Christ] added to the CHURCH daily such as should be saved. [were being saved].


Jesus Christ ADDS those who obey the Gospel to HIS CHURCH.

Otter Creek Church
Maury Hills Church

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first,
that there shall come in the last days scoffers,
walking after their own lusts,

Paison paizô [pais] 4. play on a musical instrument, h.Ap.206: c. acc., “Pan ho kalamophthogga paizōn” Ar.Ra.230; dance and sing, Pi. O.1.16. 5. play amorously, “pros allēlous” X.Smp.9.2; “meta tinos” LXX Ge.26.8; of mares


<font face="arial" size="4">The Hills Church
Oak Hills Church

The Jerusalem Anti Church


Most if not all mentions of the church or kingdom connect it to CHRIST because HE is the only TEACHER of the Word as command and His example. God gave His Glory to Christ but evil men taketh away and claim that THEY are the Authority to make binding decisions for those LIBERATED from laded burdens and burden laders.

Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. 2 Co.12:19

To edify is to EDUCATE: The command is always to READ the epistle and never to sing the epistles or some wimpy praise songs.

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. Ep.3:21

I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.Ph.3:14

PAUL, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father, and IN the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1Th.1:1

In EVERY THING give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 1Th.5:18

This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner Acts 4:11

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2Pe.1:11

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Re.1:9

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Ep.5:5
Eph. 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Col. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things HE might have the preeminence.
Col. 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and HIS kingdom; 2Ti.4:1

In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 1Th.5:18
It is the WILL of God that is IN Christ Jesus.

For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are IN Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 1 Thess 2:14

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Col 1:12
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom OF his dear Son: Col 1:13
IN WHOM we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col 1:14
Who is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of every creature: Col 1:15

Only those who are saved by faith by being baptized IN or Clothed with Christ are IN Christ. They are IN the Body of Christ, the Kingdom OF Christ which is the CHURCH of Christ. Those who HAVE the name Christ removed from their public confession REPUDIATE the teachings of Jesus by claim that HIS Spirit or Mind is a replacement GOD PERSON who is guiding them.

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Last edited by Ken.Sublett on January 22nd, 2017, 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 23rd, 2017, 8:24 am #16

I got that. But like much else in the NT there was a then and we apply a now. I have concluded that the "names" of the assemblies in the N.T. are as much descriptions than names, and that the "names" are generally irrelevant. To write " the church of God" the writer had to be writing to someone who would know which god. I am not the world's best grammarian, and I am not too sure about the Greek, but in English I believe "church" is the nominative and "God" is the object of the preposition "of". It tells us whose assembly it was. So "to the church OF GOD which is at Corinth, those who have been sanctified in CHRIST JESUS, saints..." (1 Cor 1:2) does not actually give a name for the church. Certainly, such do not admit to curious arguments regarding "trinity". I only see one place where a name was actually applied: "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." Acts 11:26. When told not to "forsake the assembling", or as we like to misapply when someone goes boating on Sunday morning, not to forsake the assembly, we do not have to worry about in whose name we are assembling. Dave could probably do better.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I agree with William. If it weren't for the religious groups or denominations in the world today, we would just be referring to the church as "the church" or "the Lord's church." Even if the church is also referred to as the body of Christ or "church of the firsborn" or "kingdom of Christ," etc.

Greetings to the church in Goodlettsville, TN or to the church at West End, Nashville or to churches [no caps] used in a sentence] of Christ in Germany or in the U.S. now would be similar to greetings (in the N.T.) to the church at Corinth or to the church in Galatia, to churches [no caps; used in a sentence] of Christ in Rome. "Churches of Christ [more than one congregation] salute you" (Romans 16:16).

Unfortunately, those who embrace Christianity are generally identified as "the church" in our culture whereas the New Testament teaches that those who put on Christ in baptism are added to "the church" (Acts 2)[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 23rd, 2017, 8:37 am #17

I think William that this thread results from the frequent discussion whether Jesus is God. That's why Dave introduced it.

Name of the church is just an outlet for that debate.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Scripture brought up a good point about Dave's intent for initiating this thread, i.e.: "Name of the church is just an outlet for that debate."

I tend to agree: that Dave's intent was to re-state the commonly held papal doctrine that "Jesus is God" based on the premise that "the church of Christ" is also "the church of God."

Now, I agree with the premise, but I do not agree with the conclusion of the Roman Catholic Church (and the papacy) based on that premise.

But just to be sure of Dave's intent, let's ask Dave himself.[/color]
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Scripture
Scripture

January 23rd, 2017, 10:15 pm #18

Disputing what you call the institution, like music, makes the lambs dumb before the slaughter because it HIDES the meaning of a Christ-Driven ekklesia with a one-piece pattern with no legal funding or fundees.

The Synagogue or Church in the Wilderness quarantined the Civil-Military-Clergy whom God had turned over to worship the starry host. That was the mark and means of driving God's enemies into Hell with the sounds (not music) of wind, string and percussion instruments. These were the instruments Lucifer called the Singing and Harp-Playing prostitute brought into the garden of Eden. both Tyre and Jerusalem were doomed to be driven into hell in the same way the Jews had performed HOLOCAUST upon innocent animals and infants.



<font face="arial" size="4">You cannot worship in the presence of those selling themselves to perform rhetoric, singing or playing instruments (Jesus called them hypocrites). According to the NOT unity in diversity Ephesians 4 they are OF the World and not part of the Little Flock or the WAY that is called a SECT which is narrow and exclusive.

The synagogue assembled to hear the WORD (Dabar-Logos regulative principle) PREACHED by being READ for comfort and doctrine. Anything beyond being a School of the Word as the product of Baptismos is a cult. Notice that Scripture leaves MARKS or Ways to Escape which cannot be refuted.



<font face="arial" size="4">If you FEED THEM you are co-conspirators and ENABLERS.

Eph. 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph. 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph. 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph. 4:21 If so be that ye have HEARD him, and have been taught BY him, as the truth is IN Jesus:
Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;


The leaders of the blind are not just blind and blinded but Paul says of the speakers, singers or instrument players (cunning craftsmen) that THEY ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

Anything beyond the commanded "that which is written for our LEARNING" is the lies of those Jude says are FOREORDAINED and almost everyone will join in the happy band.


</font></font>
It is clear that the church has no name but it does have many descriptions of ownership or description. Although Christian is name it may have been given by outsiders. However it does show that Christ is central, in that it is the bride of Christ, therefore the church of Christ.

Central is the fact that "denomination" means "giving a name" we must even grant that however valuable Christ is to the church, we must never describe our faith as being "the Church of Christ" but rather we are Christians alone--not branded by any name but Christ. This is a great mystery even to those who identify as "Church of Christ"!
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 23rd, 2017, 11:04 pm #19

Jesus said that He would build (edify or educate) HIS Church so ownership may not be troubling. The progressives remove Christ from their public confession as a statement against the group called "The Church of Christ." However, they give no option that you will see, hear and give attention to them and their instrumental band. However, the word CHURCH may be the stumbling block because then and now it gave honor to:

1, Circe or Kirke as the daughter of the sun god "eelios the sun of rising" or lucifer. She was the holy prostitute buried on an island in sight of Patmos.

2. or Kuria (or kyria) is the feminine equivalent of kurios, a common word in the New Testament. BDAG gives two definitions for kurios: (1) “one who is in charge by virtue of possession”, and (2) “one who is in a position of authority.”[2] Corresponding with these definitions, kurios is usually translated into English as “lord”, “master”, or “sir”.[3] The feminine kuria is usually translated as “lady” or “mistress” in texts outside of the New Testament.

She is the Babylonian Mother of Harlots (Revelation 17) and here servants are craftsmen or sophists, singers or instrument players. John calls them Sorcerers. The DEFUNCTS who rip Christ off their confession fit the pattern of Revelation 17-18. If we believe Scripture "Many will be called (invoted) but FEW will be chosen, elected or added to Christ's Academy.

Ekklesia and Synagogue were both assemblies: both received their information from a higher authority. It was read and discussed. Paul's assemblying is a synagogue word. They people assembled themselves to hear the message read, discussed and they assembled or syllogised (my word). Only when taken over by bullies in power was there any rhetoric, singing, playing or acting. Thomas Campbell understood the many examples concluded:

Church is a School of Christ
Worship is reading and musing the Word.

Both Jews and Gentiles were "wise unto salvation" and only needed not to offend the Jews:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.

2Cor. 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Cor. 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the READING of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Cor. 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is READ, the vail is upon their heart.
2Cor. 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Cor. 3:17 Now the Lord IS that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Cor. 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2Cor. 2:17 For we are not as many, which CORRUPT the WORD of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Paul and Greek Society called those who Sell their own learning at retail prostitutes.

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Dave
Dave

January 23rd, 2017, 11:49 pm #20

Talk about anything....I mean ANYTHING.....yellow bus.....POTUS.....and Ken Sublett will alway and STILL bring it about round to a discussion on musikators and their inability to see the real church in the wilderness.

Good one on ya Ken.
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