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October 16th, 2012, 9:18 pm #21

What the elders are confessing is that THEY have let themselves be totally ignorant of the Bible and the historical understanding that church is not a "theater for entertainment." Too bad for them, being ignorant is no excuse. Beginning with Shelly and the Jubilee crowd there was a powerful effort to claim that the preacher is the only own equipped with "charisma, bible knowledge and other skills." The elders have let themselves be demoted to shepherds of the SENIOR MINISTER only.
"Spectator"
"Agitator"
"Emulator"
"Speculator"
"Insulator"

After hearing this lesson from the preacher, the woman school teacher as she was exiting the door by the preacher said, "There is one 'tator" you left out. "What's that", said the preacher. The school teacher said "DICTATOR." The preacher had this sheepish grin, saying nothing, and she exited the door.

Whom did this preacher represent? The elders, God, the congregation, the poor? Judge for yourselves.

Was the preacher giving an honest lesson?
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October 17th, 2012, 5:09 pm #22

Tonight Madison canceled Wednesday bible classes to show the movie "Horton Hears a Who" in the auditorium at something called Hollywood Comes to Madison. If you haven't heard of this, they play movie clips on the screens while Phil Barnes jumps in and tells moral lessons he sees in the clips.

Before the movie started, they called all the children to the stage. An instrumental music track started playing a contemporary Christian song and two women started leading the kids in singing and dancing to the song.

Maybe some adults would say this was entertainment and not a church service. But I doubt most of the children on stage knew the difference and I'm pretty sure they will no longer learn it at Madison.
Jesus said that truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the World. This was to fool those who claim special powers (Isaiah 48). Peter said that Paul had some teachings that people TWIST to their own destruction. Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced in a sexual sense and we have the end-time rise of the Eve or Zoe Group teaching over the elders and training people how to add the performing arts which parse to the CAINITES as the agriculture tribes needing FERTILITY RITUALS.

For instance, in Isaiah 3, the Spirit OF Christ prophesied about women and children or women and the effeminate ruling over you. A woman who PRESIDES over with a hymn (prayer) is violating the Prophetic message of Eve and Miriam. That is left as a MARK and Paul did not PERMIT a woman to rule in the Speak-Out--Stand-Over sense. That is absolute.

When Paul spoke about the LAW he was speaking of the bad examples of women and the effeminate in pagan religions. Eve is called "mother of the living." Cybele among Paul's audience was the Mother Goddess of Beasts and Men. Eve or Zoe was identified as the "Beast and female teaching principle." The BEAST in Revelation is "a new style of singing or drama."

We have noted above the evils of the Jewish Synagogue which Paul speaks of in Romans 14. Lucretius has a direct parallel to the Mother of Harlots defined by John in Revelation 17-18 where the rhetoricians, singers and instrument players are called SORCERERS.

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October 17th, 2012, 6:01 pm #23

Tonight Madison canceled Wednesday bible classes to show the movie "Horton Hears a Who" in the auditorium at something called Hollywood Comes to Madison. If you haven't heard of this, they play movie clips on the screens while Phil Barnes jumps in and tells moral lessons he sees in the clips.

Before the movie started, they called all the children to the stage. An instrumental music track started playing a contemporary Christian song and two women started leading the kids in singing and dancing to the song.

Maybe some adults would say this was entertainment and not a church service. But I doubt most of the children on stage knew the difference and I'm pretty sure they will no longer learn it at Madison.
It is a FACT that when Paul prohibited stand-up and speak-up or preside-over roles in the assembly served two purposes:
1. It would prevent women clapping and waving UNholy hands and seducing the people away from the Word of God.
2. As one of those Parable or prophetic types this would be the MARK that the SEED of the serpent (Cainites, Eve, Zoe, Venus, Lucifer) was making an asault against the SEED (Godly) of Eve (Sethites)

Genesis 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
That SEX or Wholly Seduction of Paul.
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


AFTER the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and God sentenced the nation to be returned to Babylonianism and then Babylon, Moses wrote and INVERTED version of all of the common myths about the Mother Goddess beginning with Tehom or Tiamat. The time is ripe (end of the sixth day) for John's prophecy in Revelation 17f to be fulfilled.

When Paul said that women should be SILENT and SEDENTARY, never believe elders who tell you that Paul JUST FLAT LIED.


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October 18th, 2012, 3:30 pm #24

Ken is, as I think he said, a "cryptic writer." But he is also concise. I originally thought he meant "concise," but now I think he may have said "cryptic," i.e. mysterious, puzzling, or secret. Many have stated his articles are puzzling, and difficult to follow, and this is what he means by "cryptic." Jesus taught in parables, so that some could see and some should not, so the cryptic approach is not new.

Maybe some of the following comments might add to the discussion.

Ken is a representative of primary (the Restoration used "primitive" to describe this view) application--the importance of role definition and basic role responsibilities of males and females, and of the necessity of male leadership at the top of a society or church. In times of national crisis, or identity-crises in churches as we now have, a "primitive" world-view and application may be essential to "restoration" and "redemption." As such, he would be a supporter of scripturally-based assertive elderships and an unemotional application of scriptural truth, in his view.

Of course, many can disagree in the particulars of scriptural truth, but a primitive world-view is one that has been with us as long a human society has existed, and will continued to be applied and to be successful as long as there is human society, and church organization.

In this sense, he is not "far-out" but an applier of a design that has been with us from the beginning of time. This is not a democratic approach, as valued by our society, but more like one that is ruled by "righteousness" from top to bottom. Some would call it "sexist" but I think that label can refer to all of us, at one time or another.

****Ken wrote: "Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced in a sexual sense and we have the end-time rise of the Eve or Zoe Group teaching over the elders and training people how to add the performing arts which parse to the CAINITES as the agriculture tribes needing FERTILITY RITUALS."

I want to de-crypticize the previous statement from Ken.

A. "Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced in a sexual sense." 1 Tim 2 discusses this point of view.
1 TIm. 2: 8 I desire therefore that the men pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. 9In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; 10but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works. 11Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. 12But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve; 14and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: 15but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety. ASV

The TNIV (Bible translation) translated "men" in verse 8 as "men" as does the KJV and ASV, so this is a sex-specific word and not referring to "humans", i.e. inclusive of both men and women. TNIV translates "men" as "humans" or "mankind" where that is the intended meaning, in other words, gender specific. So when "men" is used in these verses it is referring to males, and "women" of course refers to females. So verse 8 refers to males in the worship. Whether it also applies to females is not clear, but in the least males are asked when they lift up their hands that their hands should be "holy," that is without anger or disputing. This refers to the "roosterism" that is sometimes present under male leadership--Elders, take note. This refers to the chief goal or man, that is "power." Multitudes of scriptural passages warn again the abuse of power within the family, the church, and the nation. When men become dysfunctional because of abuse of power, then women have been known historically to take over. This is true even in the animal kingdom.

According to his passage, women, unlike men who are drawn to POWER, are drawn to impression, subtlety, and OSTENTATION. Therefore the passage says that women are to be ostentatious on the basis of inward purity. Quietness is the characteristic most elevated in the passage. There is a reference back to the POWER of the man, in verses 11 and 12. It is an open question in the verse, concerning the situation in which the leadership of the man is inept, then should the women remain quiet and under subjection and dominion.

There are also level of application that should be considered. Are these rules for the church, the family, the community, or the society? Or for some combination of these? This passage does apply the principles to worship, but the application is likely wider with the support for the position being, (1) that the order of creation places man first, and (2) that woman was deceived first and not man. The verses do have their redeeming reason for their application, and that reason is so that "she shall be saved through her child-bearing." That redeeming quality is that when child-bearing (and implied child-raising) goes astray then all the level of application are in serious trouble: church, family, community, society.

B. Ken continued, writing: "and we have the end-time rise of the Eve or Zoe Group "

The word EVE in Genesis refers to "life-giving" and sometimes EVE is used as a synonym for life, or ZOE. ZOE is from ancient Greek , meaning spritual life, in contrast to Bios, meaning bological life), an æon in some gnostic belief systems. I see where he gets his "end-time rise" information from Isaiah 3:12-14. Note "women rule over them" in verse 12.

Isa. 3: 12As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they that lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. 13Jehovah standeth up to contend, and standeth to judge the peoples. 14Jehovah will enter into judgment with the elders of his people, and the princes thereof: It is ye that have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses: 15what mean ye that ye crush my people, and grind the face of the poor? saith the Lord, Jehovah of hosts. 16Moreover Jehovah said, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with outstretched necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet; 17therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and Jehovah will lay bare their secret parts.

The characteristics of the "Eve" group is in verses 18-23:

18In that day the Lord will take away the beauty of their anklets, and the cauls, and the crescents; 19the pendants, and the bracelets, and the mufflers; 20the headtires, and the ankle chains, and the sashes, and the perfume-boxes, and the amulets; 21the rings, and the nose-jewels; 22the festival robes, and the mantles, and the shawls, and the satchels; 23the hand-mirrors, and the fine linen, and the turbans, and the veils. 24And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet spices there shall be rottenness; and instead of a girdle, a rope; and instead of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a robe, a girding of sackcloth; branding instead of beauty. 25Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.

C. Ken said that they would be "teaching over the elders". Certainly when men capitulate their leadership roles by either lifting "unholy hands", perverting the life-giving and child-raising role of women, fail to insure assistance to the poor, and their general leadership role, this gives rise to female ascendancy.

D. Ken further said "and training people how to add the performing arts which pars
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October 18th, 2012, 6:04 pm #25

Jesus said that truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the World. This was to fool those who claim special powers (Isaiah 48). Peter said that Paul had some teachings that people TWIST to their own destruction. Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced in a sexual sense and we have the end-time rise of the Eve or Zoe Group teaching over the elders and training people how to add the performing arts which parse to the CAINITES as the agriculture tribes needing FERTILITY RITUALS.

For instance, in Isaiah 3, the Spirit OF Christ prophesied about women and children or women and the effeminate ruling over you. A woman who PRESIDES over with a hymn (prayer) is violating the Prophetic message of Eve and Miriam. That is left as a MARK and Paul did not PERMIT a woman to rule in the Speak-Out--Stand-Over sense. That is absolute.

When Paul spoke about the LAW he was speaking of the bad examples of women and the effeminate in pagan religions. Eve is called "mother of the living." Cybele among Paul's audience was the Mother Goddess of Beasts and Men. Eve or Zoe was identified as the "Beast and female teaching principle." The BEAST in Revelation is "a new style of singing or drama."

We have noted above the evils of the Jewish Synagogue which Paul speaks of in Romans 14. Lucretius has a direct parallel to the Mother of Harlots defined by John in Revelation 17-18 where the rhetoricians, singers and instrument players are called SORCERERS.

From Ken: "Jesus said that truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the World. This was to fool those who claim special powers (Isaiah 48). Peter said that Paul had some teachings that people TWIST to their own destruction. "

Isaiah 48:3 I have declared the former things from of old; yea, they went forth out of my mouth, and I showed them: suddenly I did them, and they came to pass. 4Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass; 5therefore I have declared it to thee from of old; before it came to pass I showed it thee; lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them. 6Thou hast heard it; behold all this; and ye, will ye not declare it? I have showed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, which thou hast not known.
7They are created now, and not from of old; and before this day thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them. 8Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from of old thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou didst deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

So Jesus, Isaiah, and the Lord are cryptic. Cryptic="a puzzle"

Crypticism flows "under the radar," kind of like the book of Revelation, Paul's writings, and Jesus' parables.

He that is without the right heart, will hear, but never understand.



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October 18th, 2012, 6:25 pm #26

Ken is, as I think he said, a "cryptic writer." But he is also concise. I originally thought he meant "concise," but now I think he may have said "cryptic," i.e. mysterious, puzzling, or secret. Many have stated his articles are puzzling, and difficult to follow, and this is what he means by "cryptic." Jesus taught in parables, so that some could see and some should not, so the cryptic approach is not new.

Maybe some of the following comments might add to the discussion.

Ken is a representative of primary (the Restoration used "primitive" to describe this view) application--the importance of role definition and basic role responsibilities of males and females, and of the necessity of male leadership at the top of a society or church. In times of national crisis, or identity-crises in churches as we now have, a "primitive" world-view and application may be essential to "restoration" and "redemption." As such, he would be a supporter of scripturally-based assertive elderships and an unemotional application of scriptural truth, in his view.

Of course, many can disagree in the particulars of scriptural truth, but a primitive world-view is one that has been with us as long a human society has existed, and will continued to be applied and to be successful as long as there is human society, and church organization.

In this sense, he is not "far-out" but an applier of a design that has been with us from the beginning of time. This is not a democratic approach, as valued by our society, but more like one that is ruled by "righteousness" from top to bottom. Some would call it "sexist" but I think that label can refer to all of us, at one time or another.

****Ken wrote: "Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced in a sexual sense and we have the end-time rise of the Eve or Zoe Group teaching over the elders and training people how to add the performing arts which parse to the CAINITES as the agriculture tribes needing FERTILITY RITUALS."

I want to de-crypticize the previous statement from Ken.

A. "Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced in a sexual sense." 1 Tim 2 discusses this point of view.
1 TIm. 2: 8 I desire therefore that the men pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. 9In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; 10but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works. 11Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. 12But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve; 14and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: 15but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety. ASV

The TNIV (Bible translation) translated "men" in verse 8 as "men" as does the KJV and ASV, so this is a sex-specific word and not referring to "humans", i.e. inclusive of both men and women. TNIV translates "men" as "humans" or "mankind" where that is the intended meaning, in other words, gender specific. So when "men" is used in these verses it is referring to males, and "women" of course refers to females. So verse 8 refers to males in the worship. Whether it also applies to females is not clear, but in the least males are asked when they lift up their hands that their hands should be "holy," that is without anger or disputing. This refers to the "roosterism" that is sometimes present under male leadership--Elders, take note. This refers to the chief goal or man, that is "power." Multitudes of scriptural passages warn again the abuse of power within the family, the church, and the nation. When men become dysfunctional because of abuse of power, then women have been known historically to take over. This is true even in the animal kingdom.

According to his passage, women, unlike men who are drawn to POWER, are drawn to impression, subtlety, and OSTENTATION. Therefore the passage says that women are to be ostentatious on the basis of inward purity. Quietness is the characteristic most elevated in the passage. There is a reference back to the POWER of the man, in verses 11 and 12. It is an open question in the verse, concerning the situation in which the leadership of the man is inept, then should the women remain quiet and under subjection and dominion.

There are also level of application that should be considered. Are these rules for the church, the family, the community, or the society? Or for some combination of these? This passage does apply the principles to worship, but the application is likely wider with the support for the position being, (1) that the order of creation places man first, and (2) that woman was deceived first and not man. The verses do have their redeeming reason for their application, and that reason is so that "she shall be saved through her child-bearing." That redeeming quality is that when child-bearing (and implied child-raising) goes astray then all the level of application are in serious trouble: church, family, community, society.

B. Ken continued, writing: "and we have the end-time rise of the Eve or Zoe Group "

The word EVE in Genesis refers to "life-giving" and sometimes EVE is used as a synonym for life, or ZOE. ZOE is from ancient Greek , meaning spritual life, in contrast to Bios, meaning bological life), an æon in some gnostic belief systems. I see where he gets his "end-time rise" information from Isaiah 3:12-14. Note "women rule over them" in verse 12.

Isa. 3: 12As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they that lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. 13Jehovah standeth up to contend, and standeth to judge the peoples. 14Jehovah will enter into judgment with the elders of his people, and the princes thereof: It is ye that have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses: 15what mean ye that ye crush my people, and grind the face of the poor? saith the Lord, Jehovah of hosts. 16Moreover Jehovah said, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with outstretched necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet; 17therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and Jehovah will lay bare their secret parts.

The characteristics of the "Eve" group is in verses 18-23:

18In that day the Lord will take away the beauty of their anklets, and the cauls, and the crescents; 19the pendants, and the bracelets, and the mufflers; 20the headtires, and the ankle chains, and the sashes, and the perfume-boxes, and the amulets; 21the rings, and the nose-jewels; 22the festival robes, and the mantles, and the shawls, and the satchels; 23the hand-mirrors, and the fine linen, and the turbans, and the veils. 24And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet spices there shall be rottenness; and instead of a girdle, a rope; and instead of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a robe, a girding of sackcloth; branding instead of beauty. 25Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.

C. Ken said that they would be "teaching over the elders". Certainly when men capitulate their leadership roles by either lifting "unholy hands", perverting the life-giving and child-raising role of women, fail to insure assistance to the poor, and their general leadership role, this gives rise to female ascendancy.

D. Ken further said "and training people how to add the performing arts which pars
D. Ken further said "and training people how to add the performing arts which parse to the CAINITES as the agriculture tribes needing FERTILITY RITUALS."

He refers to the descendants of Cain, whose worship was unacceptable, in respect to his grain offering. This is a direct tie-in to agriculture worship, and the fertility gods that were associated with that worship. Under this system, there was temple prostitution and sometimes child sacrifice.

The rule of the male was considered important to regulate female sexuality. This explains why, in our "modern" society, we continues to have rules surrounding the female more than the male--rules about abortion, laws highly punitive of rape, harshness against mothers that slaughter their babies. As in the animal kingdom, males are brighter color and physically challenging to invaders and outsiders, such that they are slaughtered first; all to save the females that populate and promise a new generation. We can picture an outer protective ring of males, and an inner but protected set of females.

The writer of 1 Timothy and Isaiah, both agree, I think that role definition is important to both males and females.
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October 18th, 2012, 6:36 pm #27

Ken is, as I think he said, a "cryptic writer." But he is also concise. I originally thought he meant "concise," but now I think he may have said "cryptic," i.e. mysterious, puzzling, or secret. Many have stated his articles are puzzling, and difficult to follow, and this is what he means by "cryptic." Jesus taught in parables, so that some could see and some should not, so the cryptic approach is not new.

Maybe some of the following comments might add to the discussion.

Ken is a representative of primary (the Restoration used "primitive" to describe this view) application--the importance of role definition and basic role responsibilities of males and females, and of the necessity of male leadership at the top of a society or church. In times of national crisis, or identity-crises in churches as we now have, a "primitive" world-view and application may be essential to "restoration" and "redemption." As such, he would be a supporter of scripturally-based assertive elderships and an unemotional application of scriptural truth, in his view.

Of course, many can disagree in the particulars of scriptural truth, but a primitive world-view is one that has been with us as long a human society has existed, and will continued to be applied and to be successful as long as there is human society, and church organization.

In this sense, he is not "far-out" but an applier of a design that has been with us from the beginning of time. This is not a democratic approach, as valued by our society, but more like one that is ruled by "righteousness" from top to bottom. Some would call it "sexist" but I think that label can refer to all of us, at one time or another.

****Ken wrote: "Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced in a sexual sense and we have the end-time rise of the Eve or Zoe Group teaching over the elders and training people how to add the performing arts which parse to the CAINITES as the agriculture tribes needing FERTILITY RITUALS."

I want to de-crypticize the previous statement from Ken.

A. "Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced in a sexual sense." 1 Tim 2 discusses this point of view.
1 TIm. 2: 8 I desire therefore that the men pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. 9In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; 10but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works. 11Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. 12But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve; 14and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: 15but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety. ASV

The TNIV (Bible translation) translated "men" in verse 8 as "men" as does the KJV and ASV, so this is a sex-specific word and not referring to "humans", i.e. inclusive of both men and women. TNIV translates "men" as "humans" or "mankind" where that is the intended meaning, in other words, gender specific. So when "men" is used in these verses it is referring to males, and "women" of course refers to females. So verse 8 refers to males in the worship. Whether it also applies to females is not clear, but in the least males are asked when they lift up their hands that their hands should be "holy," that is without anger or disputing. This refers to the "roosterism" that is sometimes present under male leadership--Elders, take note. This refers to the chief goal or man, that is "power." Multitudes of scriptural passages warn again the abuse of power within the family, the church, and the nation. When men become dysfunctional because of abuse of power, then women have been known historically to take over. This is true even in the animal kingdom.

According to his passage, women, unlike men who are drawn to POWER, are drawn to impression, subtlety, and OSTENTATION. Therefore the passage says that women are to be ostentatious on the basis of inward purity. Quietness is the characteristic most elevated in the passage. There is a reference back to the POWER of the man, in verses 11 and 12. It is an open question in the verse, concerning the situation in which the leadership of the man is inept, then should the women remain quiet and under subjection and dominion.

There are also level of application that should be considered. Are these rules for the church, the family, the community, or the society? Or for some combination of these? This passage does apply the principles to worship, but the application is likely wider with the support for the position being, (1) that the order of creation places man first, and (2) that woman was deceived first and not man. The verses do have their redeeming reason for their application, and that reason is so that "she shall be saved through her child-bearing." That redeeming quality is that when child-bearing (and implied child-raising) goes astray then all the level of application are in serious trouble: church, family, community, society.

B. Ken continued, writing: "and we have the end-time rise of the Eve or Zoe Group "

The word EVE in Genesis refers to "life-giving" and sometimes EVE is used as a synonym for life, or ZOE. ZOE is from ancient Greek , meaning spritual life, in contrast to Bios, meaning bological life), an æon in some gnostic belief systems. I see where he gets his "end-time rise" information from Isaiah 3:12-14. Note "women rule over them" in verse 12.

Isa. 3: 12As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they that lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. 13Jehovah standeth up to contend, and standeth to judge the peoples. 14Jehovah will enter into judgment with the elders of his people, and the princes thereof: It is ye that have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses: 15what mean ye that ye crush my people, and grind the face of the poor? saith the Lord, Jehovah of hosts. 16Moreover Jehovah said, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with outstretched necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet; 17therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and Jehovah will lay bare their secret parts.

The characteristics of the "Eve" group is in verses 18-23:

18In that day the Lord will take away the beauty of their anklets, and the cauls, and the crescents; 19the pendants, and the bracelets, and the mufflers; 20the headtires, and the ankle chains, and the sashes, and the perfume-boxes, and the amulets; 21the rings, and the nose-jewels; 22the festival robes, and the mantles, and the shawls, and the satchels; 23the hand-mirrors, and the fine linen, and the turbans, and the veils. 24And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet spices there shall be rottenness; and instead of a girdle, a rope; and instead of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a robe, a girding of sackcloth; branding instead of beauty. 25Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.

C. Ken said that they would be "teaching over the elders". Certainly when men capitulate their leadership roles by either lifting "unholy hands", perverting the life-giving and child-raising role of women, fail to insure assistance to the poor, and their general leadership role, this gives rise to female ascendancy.

D. Ken further said "and training people how to add the performing arts which pars
You said it perfectly. Thanks, that's the response one needs to dialog or "do church." It further proves that you know where to look. Those who don't know where to look almost never ask because they don't care.

We have discussed some of these "crypts" in the past but most people jump to the end so they can mock or fall back into the "worship" mode.

The ZOE word pops up all through the ancient literature and Paul understood the difference between eating an "apple" and being wholly seduced. Snakes never walked on two feet and talk but musical enchanters do.

Elders and preachers are never chosen to be a discipler among disciple.

The ancient writers may not be right but they wrote what people understood from reading "all about Eve." Sophia and Zoe are treated as goddesses by the Female Methodist Clergy.

http://www.piney.com/Docorigin.html

That should make us wonder when people call their group the ZOE GROUP or the HALAL GROUP or THEATRON.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 18th, 2012, 6:49 pm #28

D. Ken further said "and training people how to add the performing arts which parse to the CAINITES as the agriculture tribes needing FERTILITY RITUALS."

He refers to the descendants of Cain, whose worship was unacceptable, in respect to his grain offering. This is a direct tie-in to agriculture worship, and the fertility gods that were associated with that worship. Under this system, there was temple prostitution and sometimes child sacrifice.

The rule of the male was considered important to regulate female sexuality. This explains why, in our "modern" society, we continues to have rules surrounding the female more than the male--rules about abortion, laws highly punitive of rape, harshness against mothers that slaughter their babies. As in the animal kingdom, males are brighter color and physically challenging to invaders and outsiders, such that they are slaughtered first; all to save the females that populate and promise a new generation. We can picture an outer protective ring of males, and an inner but protected set of females.

The writer of 1 Timothy and Isaiah, both agree, I think that role definition is important to both males and females.
Isn't is amazing that the "males" are so anxious to be killed off? Elders should be masculine enough to do battle with principalities and powers in high places. Elders have to be HIGHLY MASCULINE to "teach that which is written."

Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

elegkh , disgrace, put to shame, muthon e. treat a speech with contempt.
2. test, bring to the proof, b. put right, correct, prove by a reductio ad impossibile,

No one would be accused of being primitive if they read "Plato as it has been written." Elders don't have any other authority until Jesus comes.

Nothing in culture (culture is always changing) can possibly require that anyone do more than "use one mind and one mouth to teach that which is written for our learning."

I'm not sure that preachers know the difference between a preacher and God.
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October 18th, 2012, 6:51 pm #29

You said it perfectly. Thanks, that's the response one needs to dialog or "do church." It further proves that you know where to look. Those who don't know where to look almost never ask because they don't care.

We have discussed some of these "crypts" in the past but most people jump to the end so they can mock or fall back into the "worship" mode.

The ZOE word pops up all through the ancient literature and Paul understood the difference between eating an "apple" and being wholly seduced. Snakes never walked on two feet and talk but musical enchanters do.

Elders and preachers are never chosen to be a discipler among disciple.

The ancient writers may not be right but they wrote what people understood from reading "all about Eve." Sophia and Zoe are treated as goddesses by the Female Methodist Clergy.

http://www.piney.com/Docorigin.html

That should make us wonder when people call their group the ZOE GROUP or the HALAL GROUP or THEATRON.
The lack of primary analysis, loss of reasoning from basic fundamentals, is the danger of the Churches of Christ falling into "community church" delirium.

We lose our credibility, our counter to a corrupt national system, our support for and defense of "differentness".

The appalling lack of knowledge of Restoration, Reformation, Early Church, and Medieval history is destructive and practically deadly.

These shortcomings hurt our understanding of the New Testament.

The tie-in of scriptures with the knowledge of Antiquity hinders our understanding of the Old Testament.
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October 18th, 2012, 6:54 pm #30

Isn't is amazing that the "males" are so anxious to be killed off? Elders should be masculine enough to do battle with principalities and powers in high places. Elders have to be HIGHLY MASCULINE to "teach that which is written."

Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

elegkh , disgrace, put to shame, muthon e. treat a speech with contempt.
2. test, bring to the proof, b. put right, correct, prove by a reductio ad impossibile,

No one would be accused of being primitive if they read "Plato as it has been written." Elders don't have any other authority until Jesus comes.

Nothing in culture (culture is always changing) can possibly require that anyone do more than "use one mind and one mouth to teach that which is written for our learning."

I'm not sure that preachers know the difference between a preacher and God.
Yes, you are right about authority. "All authority in heaven and in earth has been given to me." Matt. 28.

Man (and woman) has none.
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