Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 15th, 2012, 11:12 pm #11

Donnie said..."The long-haired, hippie-looking [sorry, no offense here, personally] "worship leader" with his personal microphone."


I would care to suggest that he wouldn't take it personally......considering the source. That was beyond pathetic.

No telling what you would have said if you saw Jesus with long-hair and sandals.

Oh yea, and strike three from this anonymous poster....you cannot know for certain who the poster is if they don't divulge their names......like B.

Good riddance.

=====================================

"Anonymous" is Dave Fields.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

With the "hippie" visualization -- I had you in mind. That was for your benefit.

By the way, what children's pictures have you been looking at? What Hollywood motion pictures have you been watching?

Why not deal with the real issue, instead of the post-hippie [or ongoing] generation?

Do you believe not only that "soft piano enhances worship" but also that "worship" should be in "concert format" and performance-driven?[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2012, 1:19 am #12

Donnie said..."The long-haired, hippie-looking [sorry, no offense here, personally] "worship leader" with his personal microphone."


I would care to suggest that he wouldn't take it personally......considering the source. That was beyond pathetic.

No telling what you would have said if you saw Jesus with long-hair and sandals.

Oh yea, and strike three from this anonymous poster....you cannot know for certain who the poster is if they don't divulge their names......like B.

Good riddance.

=====================================

"Anonymous" is Dave Fields.
The pagan, homosexual-driven "gods" wore long hair and Soft Clothing. Very early the "church" identified with the pagan gods and "added instrumental music because it was common to all pagan cults."

Almost universally Jesus taught the ANTITHESIS the wimpy, limpy long-haired men and short-haired women. The long hair was the MARK of males performing the "worship" roles of women. A sample of the UNIVERSALLY KNOWN facts for those who want to make Jesus and John the Baptist into "soft" identifying soft men (Catamites) and soft music.

The apostle Paul said it was a shame for a man to have long hair because the male is made in the image of God who is groomed with short hair (I Corinthians 11:3-16). It was a common characteristic of Jewish men to wear their hair in a close-cropped fashion. Eusebius copied the text of the Jewish historian Josephus in Against Apion I.22, para.173-4. In this section, Josephus was quoting an early Gentile author who gave some unique grooming styles of Jewish men. Josephus shows that the Jews were known, as Eusebius renders it, for their close-cropped hair (Preparation for the Gospel, IX.9, sect 412b).

Such a command had been in effect since the time of Moses. Whereas the King James Version translates Leviticus 10:6 as uncover not your heads, the Jewish authorities always knew that this should be rendered Let the hair of your heads not grow long (see Rashi on Leviticus 10:6; and it is so translated in The Jerusalem Bible, Koren ed.).

This command of God was given again in the time of Ezekiel. They shall not shave their heads [that is, to be bald], or let their locks grow LONG they shall only trim the hair of their heads (Ezekiel 44:20 RSV).


Shame, shame, shame!
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2012, 2:03 am #13

Homer XIX. TO PAN (49 lines)

http://www.piney.com/Homer.Hymn.Pan.html

(ll. 1-26) Muse, tell me about Pan, the dear son of Hermes, with his goat's feet and two horns --
a lover of merry noise.


Through wooded glades he wanders with dancing nymphs who foot it on some sheer cliff's edge, calling upon Pan, the shepherd-god, long- haired, unkempt. He has every snowy crest and the mountain peaks and rocky crests for his domain; hither and thither he goes through the close thickets, now lured by soft streams, and now he presses on amongst towering crags and climbs up to the highest peak that overlooks the flocks. Often he courses through the glistening high mountains, and often on the shouldered hills he speeds along slaying wild beasts, this keen-eyed god.

Only at evening, as he returns from the chase, he sounds his note, playing sweet and low on his pipes of reed: not even she could excel him in melody -- that bird who in flower-laden spring pouring forth her lament utters honey-voiced song amid the leaves.

At that hour the clear-voiced nymphs are with him and move with nimble feet, singing by some spring of dark water, while Echo wails about the mountain-top, and the god on this side or on that of the choirs, or at times sidling into the midst, plies it nimbly with his feet.

On his back he wears a spotted lynx-pelt, and he delights in high-pitched songs in a soft meadow where crocuses and sweet-smelling hyacinths bloom at random in the grass.


The Nymphs or Brides [Revelation 18]who will be shortly silenced performed--with the males--the Hieros Gamos or the Sacred marriage between the Babylon Mother of Harlots and the lusted after fruits.

Sacred prostitution was common in the Ancient Near East[1] as a form of "Sacred Marriage" or hieros gamos between the king of a Sumerian city-state and the High Priestess of Inanna, the Sumerian goddess of love, fertility, and warfare.

The temple housed priestesses of the goddess. The high priestess would choose for her bed a young man who represented the shepherd Dumuzid, consort of Inanna, in a hieros gamos or sacred marriage, celebrated during the annual Akitu (New Year) ceremony, at the spring Equinox.
See Ezekiel 8 to understand the "progressives."

http://www.piney.com/MuTammuz.html

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Tom Brite
Tom Brite

October 16th, 2012, 11:14 am #14

It is called incrementalism, or as Ken calls it "boiling the frog." I have seen it before. First, taped music is introduced in children's worship. Then taped music is allowed in special children's programs such as a special Christmas program or as it was called here "Kids Praise. Then the kids are brought for a special song during the worship. This is followed special video announcements in the congregation that contains instrumental music. Then a special, optional Wednesday night worship service will be introduced that allows instruments. Then a special Saturday night or Sunday morning service will be allowed with instruments and then finally, most Sunday morning services will become instrumental and the vocal service will be moved to the most inconvenient time for most members to get to. All of this will be combined with a lack of teaching in any service or class on "why we do the things we do." It will no longer be taught that instrumental worship is not present in the history of the church. This will allow the takeover to be complete. This process will take 20 years or so, but it will happen. Instruments will no longer be an issue to those that have been raised in this manner and the distinctiveness of this congregation will be lost.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2012, 4:00 pm #15

Rick Atchley following the Lucado etal patternism to deliberately subvert other people's children. If they were not evil they could find a command, example, inference or historical rationale without having to WHOLLY SEDUCE (Paul's words) the children. Jubilee and the Shelly scheme understood that they had to leave the older generation behind.

Rick Atchley:
Back in the 80s you could go to any major city, especially in the South, and you could find a progressive Church of Christ and if they would preach grace, and if they would put words on a screen, and if they would let divorced people place membership, they would grow.

The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that theyre going to find the least legalistic

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
.....They never heard the sermons we heard.
.....They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
.....with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
.....We discipled our children to leave our Movement!
</font>
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2012, 5:05 pm #16

Tonight Madison canceled Wednesday bible classes to show the movie "Horton Hears a Who" in the auditorium at something called Hollywood Comes to Madison. If you haven't heard of this, they play movie clips on the screens while Phil Barnes jumps in and tells moral lessons he sees in the clips.

Before the movie started, they called all the children to the stage. An instrumental music track started playing a contemporary Christian song and two women started leading the kids in singing and dancing to the song.

Maybe some adults would say this was entertainment and not a church service. But I doubt most of the children on stage knew the difference and I'm pretty sure they will no longer learn it at Madison.
It was the Spirit OF Christ who through Ezekiel warned about the Babylonian practices. This is what Paul defines as "doubtful disputations" about private opinions in Romans 14. Of course, you cannot heap up enough "scholarship" to understand that Romans 14 gives them permission to IMPOSE what Christ, Paul and recorded history teaches. A Godly person would not have to be warned about the public spectacles.

Now, they boast about USING the fair ladies (and wannabes) to ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE in what Paul outlawed.

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Scripture
Scripture

October 16th, 2012, 7:24 pm #17

Rick Atchley following the Lucado etal patternism to deliberately subvert other people's children. If they were not evil they could find a command, example, inference or historical rationale without having to WHOLLY SEDUCE (Paul's words) the children. Jubilee and the Shelly scheme understood that they had to leave the older generation behind.

Rick Atchley:
Back in the 80s you could go to any major city, especially in the South, and you could find a progressive Church of Christ and if they would preach grace, and if they would put words on a screen, and if they would let divorced people place membership, they would grow.

The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that theyre going to find the least legalistic

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
.....They never heard the sermons we heard.
.....They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
.....with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
.....We discipled our children to leave our Movement!
</font>
Atchley is saying that generation that grew to maturity in mid- to late-20th century, was never raised to hear the teachings of the previous generation. This period of time, one of fast church growth, was made possible by teaching made palatable to the masses, but not having the foundation necessary to establish an ongoing church unity. As a result a generation arose, that had not heard the old arguments, and only saw negatives without seeing the truly redeeming teachings that makes the "Church of Christ" a redeeming influence in its environment. As such, today's church is willing to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Throwing out the baby is made easier with the eldership sitting above any positive criticism from "below", i.e. from the ranks of the church pew. As an example, one member when they saw the change in color and substance of the change to the decor on the stage and around the baptism pool said, "I don't like the change, but they never ask us or care what we say about anything."
Just a word of Scripture and restoration ideas to consider some of the "bath water" that we are throwing out.

David Lipscomb, Gospel Advocate, 1877, p. 232. 'Whenever a man in the church of Christ claims authority or exercises power merely on official grounds, he is as essentially a pope and claims the prerogatives of papacy as fully as does he of Rome. He may be a smaller one, his sphere of action may be more limited but the principle if the same. All the evils of papacy arise out of the claim of the Pope and his council to decide questions by virtue of official position.'

1 Peter 5:1-5 1The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, you shall receive a crown of glory that fades not away. 5Likewise, you younger, submit yourselves to the elder. Yes, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resists the proud, and gives grace to the humble.

With all honesty, in my last 40 years in middle Tennessee, I have NEVER heard the passage 1 Peter 5:1-5 mentioned in any pulpit. Who owns the preacher?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2012, 8:12 pm #18

What the elders are confessing is that THEY have let themselves be totally ignorant of the Bible and the historical understanding that church is not a "theater for entertainment." Too bad for them, being ignorant is no excuse. Beginning with Shelly and the Jubilee crowd there was a powerful effort to claim that the preacher is the only own equipped with "charisma, bible knowledge and other skills." The elders have let themselves be demoted to shepherds of the SENIOR MINISTER only.
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Scripture
Scripture

October 16th, 2012, 8:50 pm #19

The elders that Paul met with after sending to Ephesus and "calling them" (Acts 20:17,28-30) were told
to "take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you
overseers, to feed the church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood."

After Paul's departing enemies of the flock would appear as "grievous wolves", not sparing the flock.
And "from 'your own selves' shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples away
from them" (KJV).

Paul said that he had "coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. . . . and to remember the words of
the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

Normally, the term "elders" may refer to those recognized as such by the congregation, and this is not
the mode of appointment by many churches today, in that "elders" are appointed by "elders." In this
way there is no check on the "eldership" being a self-sustaining board, placing itself above any effective criticism. The atmosphere is such that some elders don't want to talk with you very long, and "flee" before you can make any reasoned suggestions. This reflects their learning from experience.

The phenomenon at Madison is that the preacher and song leaders are often reproved and exhorted by
some "older" men that are not "officers" [don't forget 'older women' are notorious for letting their opinions be aired], but to take it on themselves to "fill in" when they think the
"officer" elders are not doing their job. You can judge your selves whether this method is working.
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Joined: January 28th, 2012, 10:19 pm

October 16th, 2012, 9:09 pm #20

John Smith,
Did you hear the moral lesson? If so, please comment on how it was vague?
When you, John Smith, preach the Word of God to anyone, are you not preaching a moral lesson?

Definition of moral....
of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.

John Smith, what/who are the basic principles of morality founded on? That's right....GOD!!!

I really don't understand those who claim to be followers of Christ yet time after time all you hear from them is negative comments. Look to Christ for the answers...now HE was positive.
The first priority is to teach the truth with all patience and accuracy. Consider that we are at war with satan who has many allies and resources at his control. The teacher who understands this knows lessons have a need for urgency and intensity. Eternal consequences are on the line. Why fool around with cartoons?

Some movies cartoons and other entertainment media have a loose and very general set of morals maybe...more often they have ideas that are foreign to the word of God. Some we should avoid altogether because of the ideas they present......and not start a silly precedent of trying to stretch and twist some idea out of them.

The scriptures are inspired of God while the current entertainment industry is inspired by money and the need to press its own very liberal agenda. This should be a no brainer.

The church growth craze and its attendant cry to soften and strip out hard teachings has to be one of the motivating factors in this kind of action.

Comments Welcome
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