CHANGE YES: APOSTASY NO!

John Waddey
John Waddey

March 24th, 2003, 10:46 pm #1

An army of younger church members are clamoring for change in the worship, faith and practices of our churches. They have naught but criticism for the efforts of the past and are certain they have discovered a far superior way of "doing church" as they are fond of saying. They leave the impression on immature and gullible disciples that those of us over 50 are stubborn, close-minded and impervious to change, no matter how beneficial it might be. In this they are less than honest. Some ultra-conservative types might well be that intractable, but for the majority of us it is not change that we reject, it is unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.

--- We are willing to change such things as the hour, the length or the order of our services, but we are not willing to change the nature and substance of them. God has specified singing, praying, communing, offering and instruction as acceptable aspects of his worship.

--- We are willing to try new songs or new hymnals, but not a new kind of music. Only singing did the Spirt authorize (Eph. 5:19). Instruments, other than the voice and heart, we will not, we cannot accept.

--- We are willing to consider different methods of observing a communion service, but we cannot mix the sacred meal with a common meal (I Cor. 11:20-22). Nor can we observe the feast on a day not ordained by God (Acts 20:7).

--- We are willing to accept any or all Biblical names for the church, but we will not brook those who seek to dismiss or discredit the Biblical name "church of Christ" used by Paul (Rom. 16:16). It is never wrong to give due glory and honor to Christ the founder and head of the church.

--- We are willing to change our methods of evangelism but not the gospel message given by Christ. Methods flourish and grow obsolete but the message is divine, perfect and eternal (Rom. 1:16).

--- We can tolerate those who prefer other reputable translations than the King James Version but not those who reject the authority of the Bible.

--- We can adapt to modern improvements in our meeting houses but we cannot be party to those who would "modernize" the church which Christ built, which is revealed in Scripture.

--- We can admit our failures to measure up to the divine pattern for faith and practice, but we can never admit the church which Christ built is any less than perfect.

--- We can preach salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9), but we will never be able to preach salvation by grace alone or faith alone (Jas. 2:24).

Change in non-essentials, in matters of judgment and expediency our people have been making for the last 200 years. Changes in the God-given faith and practice of Christianity apostates have been engaging in for the same period of time. Sydney Rigdon's changes took him into Mormonism. Dr. John Thomas' changes led him into the Christadelphians. The changes of instrumental music and missionary societies took their promoters into Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination Changes regarding the doctrine of the kingdom of Christ and His return lead Robert H. Boll into Premillennialism. Changes in the teaching of the role of miraculous gifts of the Spirit led Don Finto and the Belmont Church of Christ into Pentecostalism. Changes in the government of the church and the doctrine of Christian liberty led Chuck Lucas and Kip McKeen of the Boston church into the International Church of Christ cult. The changes proposed by the "change agents" centered in Abilene, Texas are leading toward a new denominational body with which we want no part.

JHW
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on August 3rd, 2015, 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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John Waddey
John Waddey

October 19th, 2003, 5:41 am #2

The Hebrews in Zephaniah's days were a "nation that (had) no shame" (Zeph. 2:1). Jeremiah rebuked them saying, "they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush" (Jer. 6:15). Today we have working among us a movement of men who are determined to impose their unscriptural changes upon the Lord's church. They are men with no shame. Like all other apostates before them they are not willing to walk away and start their own congregations, build their own buildings, found their own schools and other good works. They have a different plan.

They are not ashamed:

--- To operate under the false pretense that they are faithful members of the Church of Christ when all the while they are working to undermine and destroy her, to lead away disciples after them (Acts 20: 30).

--- To use deceit to snatch away a building from those who built and paid for it. Captured meeting houses are like trophies in war. Possession of them saves years of work and thousands, even millions of dollars. They provide a cloak of respectability to those who are operate out of them. They shrewdly keep their purposes veiled until they have given sufficient power to claim the property. Such is a form of legal theft.

--- To speak disrespectfully of great servants of God who blazed the trail and paved the road before them. Such ingratitude is wicked.

--- To turn their backs on pure Biblical Christianity for a cheap imitation created by men.

--- To publicly teach doctrines contrary to God's Word. The most glaring examples being that salvation is by grace alone (Heb. 5:9) and that baptism is but a declaration of one’s salvation (Acts 22:16), and that women may fill roles of public leadership in the church regardless of Paul's prohibition (I Cor. 14:33-34).

--- To pervert the Word of God to justify their new beliefs and programs. The whole idea of "a new hermeneutic" is to allow them to justify beliefs and practices that are contrary to the divine Word.

--- To sow discord and division among God's people. Before this movement reaches its zenith their will be broken churches throughout the land and a broken brotherhood. Such division God hates (Prov. 6:16-19).

--- To exchange the church Jesus for which died; the one he built and is head of; for an honorable seat among their denominational neighbors. Before they can be accepted in those circles they must renounce the unique and exclusive nature of the church which Christ built. When that is done what they have left is not a church that belongs to Christ.

May those brethren who are acting so shamelessly renounce their schemes for imposing changes on the church and humbly ask the Master for forgiveness before they face Him in judgment and their shameful deeds condemn them.

John Waddey
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Shameless Change Agent
Shameless Change Agent

October 23rd, 2003, 4:48 am #3

Johnny. You are the one who is shameless! You rant and rave about how the church should look in your view. It is not God's view. Get over yourself!
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

November 22nd, 2003, 9:50 am #4

That’s correct: “Johnny” believes in Romans 1:16—“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth…”

Now, let’s see if “Maxi Driver” (Max Lucado), a very prominent CHANGE AGENT operating in the brotherhood, passes all the qualifications of the SHAMELESS CHANGE AGENT:

———————————————————————————————————————————
YES — Operates under false pretense and is really a trans-Baptist destroying the church of Christ
YES — Shrewdly kept purposes veiled until sufficiently powerful to claim it as Community Church property
YES — Speaks disrespectfully of great servants of God who blazed the trail—such wicked ingratitude
YES — Turns back on pure biblical Christianity for a cheap imitation created by men
YES — Publicly teaches doctrines contrary to God’s Word—grace/faith alone; saved before baptism
YES — Perverts the Word of God to justify new beliefs and programs—instrumental music, cello in Communion
YES — Sows discord and division among God’s people—should leave the brotherhood alone
YES — Exchanges the church Christ built for another—swaps pulpits with Trinity Baptist and others
YES — Transformed the Oak Hills church of Christ into Oak Hills [Community] Church
———————————————————————————————————————————

Donnie Cruz
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Joined: November 23rd, 2003, 12:02 am

November 23rd, 2003, 12:02 am #5

An army of younger church members are clamoring for change in the worship, faith and practices of our churches. They have naught but criticism for the efforts of the past and are certain they have discovered a far superior way of "doing church" as they are fond of saying. They leave the impression on immature and gullible disciples that those of us over 50 are stubborn, close-minded and impervious to change, no matter how beneficial it might be. In this they are less than honest. Some ultra-conservative types might well be that intractable, but for the majority of us it is not change that we reject, it is unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.

--- We are willing to change such things as the hour, the length or the order of our services, but we are not willing to change the nature and substance of them. God has specified singing, praying, communing, offering and instruction as acceptable aspects of his worship.

--- We are willing to try new songs or new hymnals, but not a new kind of music. Only singing did the Spirt authorize (Eph. 5:19). Instruments, other than the voice and heart, we will not, we cannot accept.

--- We are willing to consider different methods of observing a communion service, but we cannot mix the sacred meal with a common meal (I Cor. 11:20-22). Nor can we observe the feast on a day not ordained by God (Acts 20:7).

--- We are willing to accept any or all Biblical names for the church, but we will not brook those who seek to dismiss or discredit the Biblical name "church of Christ" used by Paul (Rom. 16:16). It is never wrong to give due glory and honor to Christ the founder and head of the church.

--- We are willing to change our methods of evangelism but not the gospel message given by Christ. Methods flourish and grow obsolete but the message is divine, perfect and eternal (Rom. 1:16).

--- We can tolerate those who prefer other reputable translations than the King James Version but not those who reject the authority of the Bible.

--- We can adapt to modern improvements in our meeting houses but we cannot be party to those who would "modernize" the church which Christ built, which is revealed in Scripture.

--- We can admit our failures to measure up to the divine pattern for faith and practice, but we can never admit the church which Christ built is any less than perfect.

--- We can preach salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9), but we will never be able to preach salvation by grace alone or faith alone (Jas. 2:24).

Change in non-essentials, in matters of judgment and expediency our people have been making for the last 200 years. Changes in the God-given faith and practice of Christianity apostates have been engaging in for the same period of time. Sydney Rigdon's changes took him into Mormonism. Dr. John Thomas' changes led him into the Christadelphians. The changes of instrumental music and missionary societies took their promoters into Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination Changes regarding the doctrine of the kingdom of Christ and His return lead Robert H. Boll into Premillennialism. Changes in the teaching of the role of miraculous gifts of the Spirit led Don Finto and the Belmont Church of Christ into Pentecostalism. Changes in the government of the church and the doctrine of Christian liberty led Chuck Lucas and Kip McKeen of the Boston church into the International Church of Christ cult. The changes proposed by the "change agents" centered in Abilene, Texas are leading toward a new denominational body with which we want no part.

JHW
I am very unhappy to see such ignorance when it comes to this subject. I am a person that was granted musical talent by God, why else would he grant them to me if I wan't supposed to use them to praise him, right?

Now you used Eph 5:19 in your statement which says towards the end of the verse singing AND making melody in your heart to the lord JESUS CHRIST. Now lets get one thing clear, you can not send anything to the lord unless it's with you heart, and it is important to know that he will only accept things out of LOVE.

LOVE is the key to all of jesus' teachings and will be related on this subject. You mention in you topic that your only allowed to praise God with singing, but when you look at the scriptures it says SINGING AND MAKING MELODIES, NOT JUST SINGING. If the verse said singing BY making melodies then you would have an agruement but it doesn't it specifically states there are two ways to praise God...singing AND melodies (from instruments).

Now the last part of this is the most important, for everyone...Whatever you choose to do, when you praise God make sure that it is from the HEART and with LOVE, or it will be rejected. If you want to look up another script someone tried to tell me it states praising with instruments is wrong, Amos 5:21-23 which in the end states God despises offerings from SOLEMN ASSEMBLIES (churches). In other words if you offer it to him in a ungrateful, unrejoicful, or grave mood then it will be rejected. Please respond back.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

November 23rd, 2003, 5:23 pm #6

I am very unhappy to see such ignorance when it comes to this subject. I am a person that was granted musical talent by God, why else would he grant them to me if I wan't supposed to use them to praise him, right?
Now you used Eph 5:19 in your statement which says towards the end of the verse singing AND making melody in your heart to the lord JESUS CHRIST. Now lets get one thing clear, you can not send anything to the lord unless it's with you heart, and it is important to know that he will only accept things out of LOVE.
------------------------------------------------------------
SORRY ABOUT THAT BUT YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR TALENT TRUMPS THE WORD OF GOD SPOKEN IN SONG AND SERMON. WE WILL SHOW AGAIN THAT MUSIC IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST. Paul said to "speak to ONE ANOTHER" and make the melody IN THE HEART. The heart or spirit is the new PLACE where God accepts worship. IN the heart does not speak of "attitude" but of the NEW PLACE.

Scholars note that "THERE IS NO EXCEPTION but that Satan brought wind, string and percussion instruments." Hitler preached that by destroying the Jews in Jerusalem God gave him the permission and gift to finish the work!! Singing and playing instruments is not one of those gifts of the HOLY spirit. Paul said that the outward GIVING-heed would be speaking or singing in the ODE sense but 'melody as tunefulness belongs to the 19th century' so God didn't know about your gift or He would have included it as a "gift." Those with A holy SPIRIT cannot speak other than "what has been taught" so we know that the silly praise songs are not SPIRIT. WRONG spirit: Jesus said that SONS of the devil are those who SPEAK ON THEIR OWN.

Paul said do two things: one a religious activity and the other secular, pagan and polluted activities. The direct command in three places is to use ONE MOUTH and ONE MIND (in the spirit) to glorify God with "that which is written, the Spirit or the Word of Christ." (John 6:63). That EXCLUDES girlish praise songs.

First, to Paul the ASSEMBLY is always a form of the Greek word SYNAGOGUE. The synagogue was a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. Paul's UNIQUE worship word means to GIVE HEED to Christ by giving HEED to His word. That pretty well fits with the ABSOLUTE will of God that He SEEKS us only in the place of OUR spirit as it gives heed to the TRUTH. Sorry, but God isn't listening to the external unless it is speaking HIS WORDS. As you cannot pronounce a formula to save yourself you cannot form songs to praise Him unless it is repeating what HE has done. John Calvin agreed with that along with most church history.

The second activity is singing and melody IN THE HEART to God. You see, there are always two arenas: To one another and to God. God doesn't need to be TAUGHT and the error in Corinth was attempting to SPEAK TO GOD who needs no counselors. Paul said that they were just SPEAKING INTO THE AIR.

Paul used the word MELODY which is an APOLLO, Abaddon or Apollyon word. Like the Hebrew words for melody or the use of PSALLO in the Greek, an instrument is NEVER INCLUDED unless it is named. The Greek world Paul knew about ALWAYS added an ending when an instrument is intended.

PsalmIST or PsalmODIA are words for singing with instruments: Paul didn't use ANY MUSICAL terms. He used the word PSALMOS or PSALLO. If you intend to PSALLO in the modern musical sense you must grasp that this is a MARK that Abaddon has unleashed the LOCUSTS (muses, musical PERFORMERS: they have STINGERS in their tails to permanently DISABLE you).

WHY WOULD GOD INSPIRE PAUL TO USE THE CONCEPT OF WARFARE OR SEXUAL POLLUTION AS THE BASE FOR A CHRISTIAN "WORSHIP" WORD?

HE DID NOT: PAUL KNEW THE TEMPTATION OF THE 'UNCOVERED PROPHESIERS (WOMEN OR THE PERVERTED). THEREFORE, HE INSISTED THAT THE MELODY BE INTERNAL RATHER THAN EXTERNAL HATE AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD.

PSALLO (psao, pso means SOP a SIGN to identify JUDAS)

.I. to touch sharply, to pluck, pull, twitch, Aesch.; toxou neuran ps.
....to twang the bow-string, Eur.; belos ek keraos ps.
....to SEND a SHAFT TWANGING from the bow, Anth.; so, schoinos miltophurês psallomenê a
....carpenter's red line, which is TWITCH and then suddenly let go, so as to "leave a MARK."

II. to play a stringed instrument with the fingers, NOT with the PLECTRON, Hdt., Ar., Plat.
..2. later, to sing to a harp, SING NTest.

OF THE PHRASE "BELOS EK KERAOS PS" Paul said that the CARNAL WEAPONS or LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS do not help in our TASK of SPIRITUAL WARFARE against those who are identified as the MUSICIANS of Abaddon. First,

1. BELOS [ballô, as Lat. jaculum from jacio a DART, JAVELIN, A NET ]
..1. a missile, esp. an ARROW
..2. like enchos, used of any weapon, as a SWORD
3. the agana belea of APOLLO and Artemis in Hom. always denote the SUDDEN, EASY DEATH of men and women respectively.

KERAS
1. BOW, toxon
2. of MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, horn for BLOWING, "SEMENAI" kerati the Phrygian FLUTE, because it was tipped with horn (aulein or PLAY the FLUTE, kai kerati men aulein [TYRRHENIAN] nomizousi Poll.4.76 , cf. Ath.4.184a.
6. mountain peak, v.l. in h.Hom.1.8; spur, to k. tou orous [Note: the TYRRHENIAN king/queen was a CHANGE AGENT OF LUCIFER and was called "the singing and harp-playing prostitute]

SEMAINO [sêma]
I. to shew by a SIGN, indicate, MAKE KNOWN, point out, Hom., etc.
IV. = SPHRAGIZO, to stamp with a sign or MARK, to seal,

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great SIGNS and WONDERS; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mt.24:24

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and TEN HORNS, and seven crowns upon his heads. Re.12:3

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he DECEIVED them that had RECEIVED the MARK of the beast, and them that worshipped his IMAGE. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Re.19:20

Not to be personal, but the IMAGE of Pan was the little goat-footed, hill or mountain climing PERVERT who used his PAN PIPES to seduce the KINGS of the hills or mountains.

SEMEION (g4592) say-mi'-on; neut. of a presumed der. of the base of 4591; an indication, espec. cer. or supernat.: - miracle, sign, token, wonder.

.....Note: the NACHASH or MUSICAL ENCHANTER as the SERPENT in the garden of eden speaks directly of a SEMIAN character: not quite human but highly seductive.

I have pictures:

http://www.piney.com/SerpClarkGen3.html

KEROBATES ( [keras] ) HORN-footed, hoofed, kerobatas "PAN" he that GOES with HORNS, i.e. the HORNED GOD; acc. to Sch., he that WALKS the MOUNTAIN-PEAKS (cf. keras v.6).

The BEAST in the Book of Revelation who will dominate in the end-times as the MASCULINE school of the Word turns into A THEATER connects directly to PAN. The HORNS of the BEASTS are MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS given to the various KINGS so that they can take over their MOUNTAINS. Those who had one hour with the KING as keynoters will fit the numbers of the PAN PIPES (or pipers). The Christian Chronicle who TOOTED THE HORNS of the out of control AGENTS now says that only FIVE out of 13,000 congregations have GONE ALL THE WAY with the Babylon whore. They didn't count those who use MUSICAL BANDS or ORGANUM performance singing which is a LEGALISTIC way to FOOL the FOOLS that you are not yet INSTRUMENTAL.

Now to Amos (later). The Israelites were carrying out the captivity and death sentence imposed because of the MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai. It had nothing to do with just A BAD MENTAL ATTITUDE even if the position of Lipscomb is THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG with their worship: a man and his son going into the same TEMPLE PROSTITUTE was just the wrong "spirit."

http://www.piney.com/LipscombLiftedUP.html

"The sacrifices of the UNGODLY are ABOMINATION to the Lord,

The Abomination of Desolation in the temple is prophetic of the Abomination of Desolation which stands in the so-called holy places of the pulpit claiming that "We lead the worshipers into the presence of God." That is, WE have replaced Lord Jesus Christ. It needs NO PROVING: just listen to the garbage of song and sermon using to COLLECT those with the musical MARK of the Beast while those marked by Baptism with A holy Spirit devoted to the WORD FLEE perhaps without knowing that the musical trumpets have ALREADY SOUNDED as the MARK.

Sure, they didn't know when God in Christ came the FIRST TIME: they were looking in all the wrong places. Nevertheless, the hostile stealing of the church houses of widows all around the world man mean that ALL have seen His return signs. I think that while those with the MUSIC mark are applauding the Jacko Wackos of the world, Jesus will be in those tiny groups gathered in HIS name rather than in the names of the show stoppers. Don't ever try to fool people by saying that you are not in it for the GLORY. That is the old lucifer Principle now appearing as ZOE and her daughter TEAMS.

Ken Sublet
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

November 24th, 2003, 3:04 pm #7

I am very unhappy to see such ignorance when it comes to this subject. I am a person that was granted musical talent by God, why else would he grant them to me if I wan't supposed to use them to praise him, right?

Now you used Eph 5:19 in your statement which says towards the end of the verse singing AND making melody in your heart to the lord JESUS CHRIST. Now lets get one thing clear, you can not send anything to the lord unless it's with you heart, and it is important to know that he will only accept things out of LOVE.

LOVE is the key to all of jesus' teachings and will be related on this subject. You mention in you topic that your only allowed to praise God with singing, but when you look at the scriptures it says SINGING AND MAKING MELODIES, NOT JUST SINGING. If the verse said singing BY making melodies then you would have an agruement but it doesn't it specifically states there are two ways to praise God...singing AND melodies (from instruments).

Now the last part of this is the most important, for everyone...Whatever you choose to do, when you praise God make sure that it is from the HEART and with LOVE, or it will be rejected. If you want to look up another script someone tried to tell me it states praising with instruments is wrong, Amos 5:21-23 which in the end states God despises offerings from SOLEMN ASSEMBLIES (churches). In other words if you offer it to him in a ungrateful, unrejoicful, or grave mood then it will be rejected. Please respond back.
Now the last part of this is the most important, for everyone...Whatever you choose to do, when you praise God make sure that it is from the HEART and with LOVE, or it will be rejected. If you want to look up another script someone tried to tell me it states praising with instruments is wrong, Amos 5:21-23 which in the end states God despises offerings from SOLEMN ASSEMBLIES (churches). In other words if you offer it to him in a ungrateful, unrejoicful, or grave mood then it will be rejected. Please respond back.
-------------------------------------------------

When you PRAISE you do not make it a LEGALISTIC praise service: only one worshiper at a time in the Most Holy Place. Sure, some legalists have hired MOURNING MINISTERS to perform the ACT of mourning.

Now, please read Acts 7 without any fill in the blanks preaching, and in total quietness so that you GIVE HEED to the words of God and therefore do the unique WORSHIP task other than falling on your face. Stephen got himself murdered in part for telling the turkeys of the MEGA CHURCH that the musical PLAY or musical idolatry of the Egyptian TRIAD produced the Law and the Temple. God turned them over to worship the STARRY HOST which was primarily S.U.N. worship. Chiun and others worshipped by Israel and approved by our writer, was Saturn whose number is 666. Amos proves that what was happening in Israel (north ten tries) was the wholly perverted worship of the "wandering stars" always represented by human CHANGE AGENTS. Jude speaks of the book of Enoch and others which show that God will come with ten thousand of His saints for those who TURNED TO MUSIC specificially to keep from obeying the WORD.

Israel had restored the GOLDEN CALVES in Samaria so careful, careful, little star worshipers that you are not found fighting agaist God Who is SPIRIT and not worshipped by the works of human hands. No Bible student can dispute the fact that Amos is condemning what Stephen condemned and the prophets condemn as pagan idolatry. This is exactly what they brought from Egypt and to which God abandoned them at Mount Sinai:

"Now, for the first time, they might behold the INCENSE burnt three times every day, and the solemn sacrifice offered once a month to the sacred black calf Mnevis at On (Heliopolis), or to his rival the bull Apis at Memphis. Now they saw, as they could scarcely have seen elswhere,
.....That is where Nadab and Abihu got their unauthorized INCENSE ritual.

.....the adoration of the CREATURE rather than the CREATOR carried to its furthest point, and divine honours paid not only to the mighty Pharaoh, the Child, the representative of the Sun-God, (Shelly's S.U.N. god) but to almost everything in the heaven above, and earth beneith, and the waters under the earth." (MaClear, p. 79).

"Isis: GENDER-VARIANT priestesses, (often self-emasculated males), danced and performed magic rites with the other women devotées. Such a dance can be viewed on a marble relief at Ariccia, near Rome on the Appian Way.
...Ecstatic dancing, lifting of skirts, shaking of buttocks, TOSSING of HEADS and RAISING of ARM reveal the enthusiasm of the dancers. It also reveals that some are clearly MALE-born. Such as these were called cinaedi.

"Common to most Egyptian worship: "A burnt offering was then presented, accompanied by SINGING and MUSIC; and finally the goddess was ceremoniously clothed, adorned, and adored. The second service took place in the afternoon, which consisted chiefly of PRAYER and MEDITATIONS before the images and SYMBOLS of the gods and which closed with MUSIC and ANTIPHONAL SINGING. A third service, quite brief... left Isis unclothed in her quiet temple... The two great autumn and spring festivals featured the death and resurrection of Osiris... and it was expressed with all the symbolism, mystery,
....MUSIC, SINGING, ritual, and PAGENTRY (thos banners)... it was calculated to stimulate the deepest religious emotions, and fan the flames of ecstatic joy." (Fairservice, Walter A., Jr, The Ancient Kingdoms of the Nile, p. 171-172, Mentor

AMOS IDENTIFIED THIS AS THE WORSHIP OF MOLECH, CHIUN AND OR REMPHAN: CHIUN IS SATURN (666). Here is the PUNISHMENT for improvizing like David:

And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the Lord unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I WILL NOT AGAIN PASS BY THEM ANY MORE. Amos 8:2
....And the songs of the temple shall be HOWLINGS in that day, saith the Lord God: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence. Amos 8:3

The 1913 Britannica notes that OUR singing would be heard as SCREAMING and SCREECHING as indeed it still does to the eastern ear. So, our songs have been turned into HOWLINGS for the woes coming upon them.

DON'T TELL ME YOU DON'T SWALLOW UP THE NEEDY TO HIRE MUSICAL MEDIATORS ($90,000.oo West End) and according to reports from Franklin, 50,000.oo to make church into theater:

Hear this, O ye that SWALLOW up the NEEDY, even to make the poor of the land to fail, Amos 8:4

Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat (books, CDs), making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and FALSIFYING the balances by deceit? Amos 8:5

And I will turn your feasts (religious festivals) into MOURNING, and all your SONGS into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day. Amos 8:10

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a FAMINE in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of HEARING the WORDS of the Lord: Amos 8:11

And they shall WANDER from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to SEEK the WORD of the Lord, and SHALL NOT find it. Amos 8:12

In that day shall the fair virgins and young men FAINT for THIRST. Amos 8:13

They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beer-sheba liveth; even they SHALL FALL, and NEVER RISE up again. Amos 8:14

WHY WAS THAT? Notice that instruments and the NEW WINESKIN often go together. Making the Lord's Supper into an Agapae or Marzeah festival with and for the DEAD is another MARK of the perverted times.

WHAT WAS THE CAUSE IN AMOS?
......And the HARP, and the VIOL, the TABRET, and PIPE, and WINE, are in their feasts:
......I HATE, I despise your religious feasts; I cannot stand your assemblies. Am.5:21
.....BUT they regard not the work of the Lord, neither consider the operation of his hands. Is.5:12

GOD COULD HAVE SAID, "I ENJOY A FATHER AND SON GOING INTO THE SAME TEMPLE PROSTITUTE--IF THEY WOULD JUST HAVE A GOOD MENTAL ATTITUDE." OR, "I COULD TOLERATE THE WIVES (COWS OF BASHAAN) CONFISCATING THE FOOD OF THE POOR IF THEY WOULD JUST HOLD THEIR HANDS IN A PRAYERFUL ATTITUDE." Improvizing their own songs and using David's TEMPLE-STATE instruments for worship would be ok if they just claimed that MY songs are better than THEIR songs."

THE SACRIFICIAL SYSTEM WAS GOD'S PUNISHMENT WHEN ISRAEL "PRAYED" TO WORSHIP LIKE THE NATIONS AND "FIRED" HIM IN FAVOR OF HUMAN LEADERS.

What Israel was doing was IMPOSED by the Law of Moses "because of transgression" which was MUSICAL WORSHIP of a TRIAD of God's like Rubel Shelly's Family of Gods.

I SAY THAT THE OVERWHELMING "MIRACLE" OF A WORLD-WIDE REPUDIATION OF THE WORD is MARKED by the use of music and is not the primary CAUSE.

The people in Amos were worshiping SATAN uder Saturn, Chaldee 666. Don't tell anyone who has ever read the Old Testament that Israel just had a bad mental attitude and according to Lipsomb's guru, "There was nothing wrong with their worship."

Ken Sublett
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

November 25th, 2003, 12:57 am #8

I am very unhappy to see such ignorance when it comes to this subject. I am a person that was granted musical talent by God, why else would he grant them to me if I wan't supposed to use them to praise him, right?

Now you used Eph 5:19 in your statement which says towards the end of the verse singing AND making melody in your heart to the lord JESUS CHRIST. Now lets get one thing clear, you can not send anything to the lord unless it's with you heart, and it is important to know that he will only accept things out of LOVE.

LOVE is the key to all of jesus' teachings and will be related on this subject. You mention in you topic that your only allowed to praise God with singing, but when you look at the scriptures it says SINGING AND MAKING MELODIES, NOT JUST SINGING. If the verse said singing BY making melodies then you would have an agruement but it doesn't it specifically states there are two ways to praise God...singing AND melodies (from instruments).

Now the last part of this is the most important, for everyone...Whatever you choose to do, when you praise God make sure that it is from the HEART and with LOVE, or it will be rejected. If you want to look up another script someone tried to tell me it states praising with instruments is wrong, Amos 5:21-23 which in the end states God despises offerings from SOLEMN ASSEMBLIES (churches). In other words if you offer it to him in a ungrateful, unrejoicful, or grave mood then it will be rejected. Please respond back.
The big lie which leads to instruments is that Amos just condemned a "bad mental attitude." Even Phds who can peddle a commentary on Isaiah which also defines Israel, makes the claim "there's nothing wrong with their worship." I am listing just a few quotes out of 55 single spaced evidence that that, like the FAMILY OF GODS is a recent invention of Anti-church of Christ pseudo-scholars:

THE BIBLE AND SCHOLARSHIP KNOWS THAT THE MUSICAL "RITUALS" OF THE JEWS WAS CANAANITE BAALISM AND NOT FROM GOD. MUSIC IS BOTH A PUNISHMENT AND A MARK OF INNOVATION.

"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

Primarily in Israel but also in Judah the Israelites merged with Canaanite Baalism. This was the SENTENCE imposed when Israel rejected the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, rose up in MUSICAL IDOLATRY and God gave them the LAW "which was not good" to worship the STARRY HOST.

"From a religious as well as a cultural point of view the Israelites came under Canaanite influence after their immigration from Palestine: they were attracted by the ancient Canaanite cult of BAAL. Holy places on mountain-tops, sacred stones and stone columns, trees and springs were among the locations in which they sought God.
....Of course, they said that in this way they were serving the God of Israel,
....but their FORMS of worship were indisputably those of the CANANNITE God BAAL... The "God of Moses seemed to have been forgotten." (Jirku, Anton, The World of the Bible, World Publishing, p. 75)

"The effect of this demoralizing religion upon Hebrew society was seen in the corruption of justice, in wanton and luxurious living, and in the decay of social unity." (Living Bible Ency., p. 87).

"Given the Milieu of Canaan, there were bound to be breakdowns, both personal and national. How else could such predicaments be overcome except by recognition of the wrongs committed and a speedy making of amends--not so much the payment of a penalty as the repair of the rupture? It could be done by a complete rededication as provided for in the burnt offering with its symbol indicating the removal of corruption and presence of the salt of friendship, or by the peace offering through which individual and community were reconciled to the Lord. God had indeed provided for his people a way of escape. Only when his gifts of preservation and salvation did the prophets attack them because such attitudes represented a gross misuse of the sacrificial grace of God.
"Israel's sacrificial system provided only for the removal or forgiveness of sins committed UWITTINGLY (Lev. 4:2). There is NO RIGUAL for expiation of sins incurred DEFIANTLY, that is, those committed with a high hand (Num. 15:30-31). Such sins were apparently ineradicable, as was BLAS0HEMY against the HOLY GHOST (Mark 3:29)." (Myers, p. 46-47)

"The ritual observances at the Hebrew and at a Canaanite sanctuary were so similar that to the mass of the people Jehovah worship and Baal worship were not separated by any well-marked line... A sacrifice was a PUBLIC ceremony of a township or clan... Then the crowds streamed into the sanctuary (Courts only_ from all sides, dressed in their gayest attire, marching joyfully to the SOUND OF MUSIC, and bearing with them not only the victims appointed for sacrifice, but store of bread and wine set forth the feast... Universal hilarity prevailed." (Gurney, p. 37).

"See how they sang! 'That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David.' Musical sounds gratified their auricular sensibilities, and they chanted to the 'viol.' Here is the lust of the ear... What a description this of a people that lived and wrought entirely for the senses! They were practical materialists. They had no spiritual vision, sensibilities, or experience. Their imperishable souls were submerged in the deep flowing sea of mere animal pleasures... There is, indeed, a reference to intellectual effort, for it is said, 'they invented to themselves instruments of music.' Carnal indulgencies has ever been and is now as much, if not more than ever, the great employer of man's inventive faculties." (Pulpit Commentary, The Book of Amos, p. 131).

"...Scriptures do CONDEMN the use that David made of the instruments in worship--Amos 6:5: 'Woe to them... that chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;' and Amos 5:23: 'Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.' The condemnation of the instruments of music in this passage turns on the phrase LIKE DAVID--it does not say like David's, which could refer only to the instruments, but like David is the use that David made of the instruments. David did not invent the musical instrument--Jubal invented the instruments (Gen. 4:21)--but David invented them for worship--they were David's INNOVATION." (Wallace, p. 177).

Ken Sublett
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John Waddey
John Waddey

February 21st, 2004, 12:21 pm #9

An army of younger church members are clamoring for change in the worship, faith and practices of our churches. They have naught but criticism for the efforts of the past and are certain they have discovered a far superior way of "doing church" as they are fond of saying. They leave the impression on immature and gullible disciples that those of us over 50 are stubborn, close-minded and impervious to change, no matter how beneficial it might be. In this they are less than honest. Some ultra-conservative types might well be that intractable, but for the majority of us it is not change that we reject, it is unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.

--- We are willing to change such things as the hour, the length or the order of our services, but we are not willing to change the nature and substance of them. God has specified singing, praying, communing, offering and instruction as acceptable aspects of his worship.

--- We are willing to try new songs or new hymnals, but not a new kind of music. Only singing did the Spirt authorize (Eph. 5:19). Instruments, other than the voice and heart, we will not, we cannot accept.

--- We are willing to consider different methods of observing a communion service, but we cannot mix the sacred meal with a common meal (I Cor. 11:20-22). Nor can we observe the feast on a day not ordained by God (Acts 20:7).

--- We are willing to accept any or all Biblical names for the church, but we will not brook those who seek to dismiss or discredit the Biblical name "church of Christ" used by Paul (Rom. 16:16). It is never wrong to give due glory and honor to Christ the founder and head of the church.

--- We are willing to change our methods of evangelism but not the gospel message given by Christ. Methods flourish and grow obsolete but the message is divine, perfect and eternal (Rom. 1:16).

--- We can tolerate those who prefer other reputable translations than the King James Version but not those who reject the authority of the Bible.

--- We can adapt to modern improvements in our meeting houses but we cannot be party to those who would "modernize" the church which Christ built, which is revealed in Scripture.

--- We can admit our failures to measure up to the divine pattern for faith and practice, but we can never admit the church which Christ built is any less than perfect.

--- We can preach salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9), but we will never be able to preach salvation by grace alone or faith alone (Jas. 2:24).

Change in non-essentials, in matters of judgment and expediency our people have been making for the last 200 years. Changes in the God-given faith and practice of Christianity apostates have been engaging in for the same period of time. Sydney Rigdon's changes took him into Mormonism. Dr. John Thomas' changes led him into the Christadelphians. The changes of instrumental music and missionary societies took their promoters into Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination Changes regarding the doctrine of the kingdom of Christ and His return lead Robert H. Boll into Premillennialism. Changes in the teaching of the role of miraculous gifts of the Spirit led Don Finto and the Belmont Church of Christ into Pentecostalism. Changes in the government of the church and the doctrine of Christian liberty led Chuck Lucas and Kip McKeen of the Boston church into the International Church of Christ cult. The changes proposed by the "change agents" centered in Abilene, Texas are leading toward a new denominational body with which we want no part.

JHW
<font size=5>A PRAYER FOR HELP IN THIS DAY OF DISTRESS</font>

Change agents have much to say about calling us back to the Old Testament. The author happens to be a student of the Old Covenant and finds many valuable lessons therein. In the Psalms he finds many inspirational thoughts for prayers. When the righteous among the Hebrews were confronted with deadly, dangerous enemies, they prayed fervently to God for his help and deliverance and he heard and delivered them. While we must never pray for any physical harm to our enemies, we can properly pray that those who are spiritual enemies of the Cause of Christ will be defeated in their endeavors. You who read this are urged to join the author in daily praying for the safety of the Lord's church from those agents of change who are working to corrupt her faith, worship and practice.
  • <font color=blue>
  • Pray that God will confound and confuse them in their schemes and plans (Ps. 35:4 KJV); that He will bring their counsels to nought (Ps. 33:10).
  • Pray that they will be scattered (Ps.68:1), that they will turn and flee from God's righteous servants who oppose them (Ps. 129:5).
  • Ask God to turn them one against the other and render them helpless to harm to his church (Ps. 64:8).
  • Pray that their mischief will return on their own heads (Ps. 7:16).
  • Entreat God to blunt their arrows, break their bows and dull their swords (Ps. 49:9; 76:3).
  • Earnestly pray that they will be defeated and overthrown in the day of conflict (Prov. 22:12).
  • Pray that God's people will be strong and valiant in the day of battle and that Christ will be glorified; that those who love him and his holy church will not be put to shame (Ps. 69:6).
  • Ask God to arise and "plead his own cause" (Ps. 74:22); that He will remember "all the evil that the enemy hath done in the sanctuary" (Ps. 74:3).
  • Pray that every brother and sister in Christ will give heed to the Word of God (Ps. 119:34) and "set their hope in God" (Ps. 78:7) rather than in schemes, promotions and worldly enticements.
  • Let us pray that God will revive the spirits of each of us (Is. 57:15), and his church throughout the world; that every man of God will be a good soldier of Christ Jesus and stand boldly against the enemies of the kingdom (II Tim. 2:3-4).
  • Entreat God that the faithful remnant will rejoice and be glad in God's protection and deliverance of his church (Ps. 70:4)
  • Pray that all the churches of Christ will once again flourish and with devotion and zeal go forth with determination and confidence to win the world for Christ (Matt. 28:19).</font>

__________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now
johnwaddey@aol.com
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on February 21st, 2004, 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John Waddey
John Waddey

June 27th, 2004, 5:44 am #10

An army of younger church members are clamoring for change in the worship, faith and practices of our churches. They have naught but criticism for the efforts of the past and are certain they have discovered a far superior way of "doing church" as they are fond of saying. They leave the impression on immature and gullible disciples that those of us over 50 are stubborn, close-minded and impervious to change, no matter how beneficial it might be. In this they are less than honest. Some ultra-conservative types might well be that intractable, but for the majority of us it is not change that we reject, it is unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.

--- We are willing to change such things as the hour, the length or the order of our services, but we are not willing to change the nature and substance of them. God has specified singing, praying, communing, offering and instruction as acceptable aspects of his worship.

--- We are willing to try new songs or new hymnals, but not a new kind of music. Only singing did the Spirt authorize (Eph. 5:19). Instruments, other than the voice and heart, we will not, we cannot accept.

--- We are willing to consider different methods of observing a communion service, but we cannot mix the sacred meal with a common meal (I Cor. 11:20-22). Nor can we observe the feast on a day not ordained by God (Acts 20:7).

--- We are willing to accept any or all Biblical names for the church, but we will not brook those who seek to dismiss or discredit the Biblical name "church of Christ" used by Paul (Rom. 16:16). It is never wrong to give due glory and honor to Christ the founder and head of the church.

--- We are willing to change our methods of evangelism but not the gospel message given by Christ. Methods flourish and grow obsolete but the message is divine, perfect and eternal (Rom. 1:16).

--- We can tolerate those who prefer other reputable translations than the King James Version but not those who reject the authority of the Bible.

--- We can adapt to modern improvements in our meeting houses but we cannot be party to those who would "modernize" the church which Christ built, which is revealed in Scripture.

--- We can admit our failures to measure up to the divine pattern for faith and practice, but we can never admit the church which Christ built is any less than perfect.

--- We can preach salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9), but we will never be able to preach salvation by grace alone or faith alone (Jas. 2:24).

Change in non-essentials, in matters of judgment and expediency our people have been making for the last 200 years. Changes in the God-given faith and practice of Christianity apostates have been engaging in for the same period of time. Sydney Rigdon's changes took him into Mormonism. Dr. John Thomas' changes led him into the Christadelphians. The changes of instrumental music and missionary societies took their promoters into Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination Changes regarding the doctrine of the kingdom of Christ and His return lead Robert H. Boll into Premillennialism. Changes in the teaching of the role of miraculous gifts of the Spirit led Don Finto and the Belmont Church of Christ into Pentecostalism. Changes in the government of the church and the doctrine of Christian liberty led Chuck Lucas and Kip McKeen of the Boston church into the International Church of Christ cult. The changes proposed by the "change agents" centered in Abilene, Texas are leading toward a new denominational body with which we want no part.

JHW
<font size=5> CHANGES DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE </font>

In a suburb of Nashville, there once was a flourishing congregation of the Lord's people. They had a lovely meeting house and prospered for a season. Because of internal conflicts and poor leadership, the congregation disintegrated and ceased to exist. The building still stands but changes have taken place. The sign identifying it as a church of Christ was taken down. The pews, pulpit and communion table were carted away. The former doors were removed and large garage doors installed. At last report a car repair shop occupied it.

No longer do saints assemble there to worship; the gospel is not proclaimed therein. The Lord's memorial meal is not observed, nor do sinners have their sins washed away in its baptistery. No children fill its classrooms for Bible study. Satan won the victory! The changes were overwhelming and permanent. It is no longer the home of a church of Christ, it is an auto shop.

Across the nation scores of churches of Christ are engaged in a similar process of change. Seduced by skilled promoters of change they have embarked on a project that will significantly alter every aspect of their being.

Consider what their mentors propose:
  • <font color=blue>
  • Many have already changed their name. They prefer to be known as a "Community Church" or some other cognomen than church of Christ.
  • They have rejected the Bible as the divine pattern for the church (II Tim. 1:13), preferring consensus and the example of various successful denominational bodies.
  • They are changing their doctrine. They have repudiated much of what their fathers taught about grace, baptism, worship, church government, the role of women, the nature of the church.
  • They are changing their worship. The simple worship of the apostolic church is not pleasing to them. To be bound and limited by Scripture is too restrictive. They view our acappella singing, our simple memorial feast, our Biblical preaching to be old-fashioned, boring and ineffective. They long for excitement and the freshness of change. They wish to be like their religious neighbors who acknowledge no such limitations (I Sam. 8:5).
  • They have changed their message of salvation. Salvation by grace (Eph. 2:8-9) has been replace by salvation by "grace alone."' Baptism to wash away sins (Acts 22:16) has been replaced by baptism to declare one's previous salvation by grace. The one church which is God's family of saved souls (Acts 2:47; Col. 1:13), has been replaced with a choice of denominational churches, none of which are really important.
  • They have replaced the Biblical teaching and practice of exclusive male leadership for the church ( I Tim. 2:8-12; 3:1) with a new model, fashioned after the Feminist cult, that allows women to participle in "all aspects of church life" i.e., as preachers teachers, deacons, etc.
  • Preaching the gospel has been replaced by story-telling, dramatic skits and other new means of sharing. God expects faithfulness of his disciples if they hope to be saved in eternity (Rev. 2:10). While faithfulness does not mean perfection (Rom. 3:23), it does mean that we seek to abide in his word in all that we do in our personal and congregational lives (II John 9).</font>
More examples could be given, but these suffice to make the point. Congregations that have embraced the above mentioned changes may once have been faithful churches of Christ. But given these major changes in every essential aspect of their nature and being, are we not correct in concluding that somewhere along the way they ceased to be what they once were? Yes, they may still be a church, but they are no longer the church one reads of in Scripture, nor the church they were 25 years ago! They may talk of their spiritual roots in the Restoration Movement, but they have abandoned those roots. Just as that building housing the auto shop in Nashville is no longer the home of a church of Christ, such changed congregations are no longer the church they once were!

<font color=blue>Actually it would be a blessing, if all of those who are determined to take this course would take a new name and disassociate themselves from us, lest those seeking salvation and the church of the Bible be misled. </font>

___________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
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