H.Roberson
H.Roberson

June 30th, 2004, 10:20 pm #11

Well, I thought I had found the Holy Grail, but alas I haven't.

This article is supposed to list what the leaders of the Change Agent army propose. The bullets should start with a verb I suspect, or at least use the form: "...propose: Change the name of your congregation." The reader of this article has to infer the proposed action based on the author's description. That ain't good English;)

Well, let's look at the proposals (I've supplied a proposal that I think fits Mr. Waddey's text).

1. Change your congregation's name. This does not seem to be a scriptural issue since God's church is known by several labels in scripture. Changing the name per se, is not a problem.

2. Reject Scripture as normative and make all decisions based on majority vote. This would be a problem if it were the case; I don't know of any congregation of the churches of Christ that has made this change. In fact, all the congregations of which I am aware take Scripture very seriously.

3. Change your doctrine. This is not per se unscriptural either, assuming your current doctrine does not appropriately reflect what Scripture says. Repudiate seems a bit harsh. Perhaps re-examine your fathers' doctrine would be more appropriate. To re-examine our beliefs from generation to generation seems prudent. "We've always done it that way" or "we've always believed that" are not sufficient reasons for continuing an activity. Doctrinal changes have been made many times to get us where we are today. It seems the Jerusalem conference had to make some modifications in their and the church at large's doctrine. Doctrinal modifications were made between the Stone and Campbell movements and yes, doctrinal changes have occured since the first of the 20th century. They will likely continue and if based on better understandings of Scripture, are to be welcomed. Changing of doctrine is not the problem; the basis of that change may be.

4. Change your worship to be more energetic and appealing. I don't suppose there's anything unscriptural about that either. The assemblies of the church are to be appealing to all in attendance whether Christian or not. Hiring a Gospel preacher who can present the Word of God in inspiring and engaging ways would be a good thing.

5. Change the method of salvation. This is perhaps Mr. Waddey's single scriptural point. If someone advocates changing the method of salvation, that is a serious issue. If they have moved from baptism to grace alone, they have likely done so in response to an over zealous emphasis on baptism - of "just get them in the water." Doesn't make changing salvation correct, but it should give us a reason to re-examine the way we teach salvation.

6. Let women fully participate in worship and congregational leadership. There are some who have done this I suspect. I also suspect that they are trying to balance all of what Paul has to say on the subject. If they have come to the wrong conclusion, and yet they are Christian, I suspect that Mr. Waddey's allowance for not being perfect would cover any gaffs they might commit.

7. Do anything but preach the Word of God. I don't know of any congregation that has rejected preaching. Some have added other methods of communicating the Gospel which really is part of what preaching is about. Jesus' command to preach the Gospel as we go into the world is less about the method of proclamation than it is about the fact that we should communicate it. Story telling fits, it seems to me, with Jesus' use of parables to communicate truth. Since preaching involves explication (rather than simply reading scripture straight through), the use of an appropriate illustration seems reasonable. If that illustration is acted out rather than spoken, is that unscriptural? I think not. We confuse ourselves when we use the word preach because we have a narrow definition of what that is. The point of the church is to proclaim and communicate the Word of God. The methods of so doing are debateable.

It is interesting that Waddey believes the above changes would keep a church from being a faithful church of Christ given that, with the exception of point 5, Waddey says being imperfect is O.K.
Reaching incorrect conclusions in this case does not disallow faithfulness.

Waddey's final paragraph - he seems to do so well up to his last paragraphs - is an odd one. He decries changing names and then practically begs them to do so. Isn't that a bit odd? I also think it a bit strange that he would want to be disassociated from baptized (but imperfect) Christians. It seems he would want to embrace them.

H.Roberson
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Dotty
Dotty

July 1st, 2004, 4:50 pm #12

That was a great post - thanks. It makes so much sense, especially # 7. That makes perfect sense and thanks for explaining it in a way that I wouldn't have thought of. I'm anxious to read the rebuttal that's sure to come, though.

Dotty
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

July 1st, 2004, 7:46 pm #13

<font color=red>7. Do anything but preach the Word of God. I don't know of any congregation that has rejected preaching. Some have added other methods of communicating the Gospel which really is part of what preaching is about. </font>

When Paul "preached" until midnight he didn't begin at 9:30 in the morning. The word in the CONGREGATION is called dialog or communing.

The early church read or "sang" the Psalms as worship just as Paul demanded. A few centurys later when men turned heretics they TOLD BIBLE STORYS end to end. This was considered an APOSTASY.

A fundamental part of the GOSPEL is that Jesus died to give us REST. Rest or PAUO in the Greeks has a strong focus on "silencing the speakers" and "silencing the instrumentalists." Jesus stopped them both: he ejected the musical minstrels "like dung." The BURDEN laded on by the clergy was 'anxiety created by religious rituals." Another BIG LIE is the law of tithing and the LAW OF GIVING. Paul repudiated that. Therefore, the synagogue of Christ HAS NO INCOME to pay for what many in the BODY could do better. Rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers, musicians and Craftsmen will go back into hell with the Mother Goddess. Craftsman is the Greek TECHNE. It specifically points to those WHO BUILD BUILDING as opposed to the body and human SPIRIT as the only house Jesus builds. You CANNOT worship in houses built by human hands: you CANNOT worship by your human hands.

<font color=red>Jesus' command to preach the Gospel AS WE G0 into the world is less about the method of proclamation than it is about the fact that we should communicate it. </font>

That's the old devious plan best explained by Rubel Shelly in defending the Located Missionary. He misuses the example of Paul to Timothy. Paul worked to the POINT OF TRAVAIL so that the gospel would be without charge. You cannot TRAFFIC in the free water of the Word (Isa 55). The Bible and church history shows that the BISHOPS or elders had a large territory because they feld that their whole "county" was to be taught--free of charge. I know of no history that shows an INCIDENTAL understanding of the COMMISSION.

http://www.piney.com/Located-Missionary.html

There is no version which says OH, SINCE YOUR ARE GOING ANYWAY PREACH THE GOSPEL! When Jesus READ the word in the synagogue the pulpit held up the Scriptures and NOT a preacher.

<font color=blue>Kerusso (g2784) kay-roos'-so; of uncert. affin.; to herald (as a public crier), espec. divine truth (the gospel): - preach (-er), proclaim, publish. </font>

Paul, of course, just HAPPENED to preach AS HE WENT? Paul understood that you cannot preach to the saved. He did not want to evangelize (preach) to those who had been taught. Jesus went out preaching and teaching AND preaching:

<font color=blue>And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. Mt.4:23 </font>

Let's see: Paul Revere was a Located Herald. He stood by his little pulpit in North Church and lit the lamp and after telling a joke to bring applause (very low class) he waves his hands, spits on you and says: I wants you to know-uh that the British-uh are comming-uh. Bow your heads and let spray!

<font color=red>Story telling fits, it seems to me, with Jesus' use of parables to communicate truth. </font>

"Story telling" is the mantra of those who do not believe in commands, examples and inferences. Narrative Theology (feminist theology) tells the story of the wildernes, "takes liberties" and turns it into a PATTERN for Christian worship and COMMUNITY (meaning commune." God in Christ (the Spirit in both testaments) told the story the way HE wanted it told. The preacher is going to tell MORE or LESS in which case people can listen to sermons for 20 years and believe that Noah crossed the Red Sea in the Ark of the Covenant. Keeping them IGNORANT is the intention of those who believe that they must explain Go.

Too bad, too sad: Jesus used Parables to HIDE the truth from the clergy and most UPPER CLASS. When you ignore the Word "as it has been taught" as the only WORSHIP word Paul mentioned, then God sends you strong delusions. Sure, even the incarnate God of the universe now speaks to YOU in parables (storys) lest YOU hear with your ears, turn and be saved. You see, Scripture and all literature proves that when you honor men and fall into music YOU HAVE FALLEN AND YOU WILL NEVER GET UP. You will notice that this thread is ME directed because it cannot face the burning face of a Holy God anymore. Try looking at Matthew 13 and many other notes to prove that "parables" are used (Isaiah 48) to hide the truth from RETAILING merchants who "water the wine."

<font color=red> Since preaching involves explication (rather than simply reading scripture straight through), the use of an appropriate illustration seems reasonable. If that illustration is acted out rather than spoken, is that unscriptural? I think not. We confuse ourselves when we use the word preach because we have a narrow definition of what that is. The point of the church is to proclaim and communicate the Word of God. The methods of so doing are debateable. </font>

<font color=blue> Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things alway in remembrance. 1 Pet 2: 15

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 1 Pet 2: 16

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 1 Pet 2: 17
  • It is a fact: Jesus will not judge us. He said that the Words which He Spoke will judge us. I would not take a chance on a preacher's word if he has so little respect for God that he makes up his own Scriptures. As Rubel Shelly says, working in partnership with God.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 1 Pet 2: 18

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1 Pet 2: 19
  • The Zoe Group promoting "musical worship" now promises to bring the light: Zoe is Lucifer.
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1 Pet 2: 20
  • Epilusis (g1955) ep-il'-oo-sis; from 1956; explanation, i.e. application: - interpretation.

    Epiluo (g1956) ep-ee-loo'-o; from 1909 and 3089; to >SOLVE FURTHER, i.e. (fig.) to explain, decide: - determine, expound.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 1 Pet 2: 21
  • Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Pet 1:11

    Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 1 Pet 1:12

    Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 1 Pe 1:13
BUT there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Pet 2:1

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Pet 2: 2

And through covetousness shall they with feigned words MAKE MERCHANDISE of you: whose JUDGMENT now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Pet 2: 3 </font>

If we have TALENT we can SERVE. However, if we SPEAK we must speak as ORACLES of God. We can prophesy by reading the word so that we can say "thus saith the Lord."

The written Word of the Living Word is the "text book" of the Synagogue Christ promised to build. The Jews believed that when they lifted up the Scriptures and READ (no singing) the Word it was GOD who was speaking to them. The only way we can speak as the ORACLES of God is to, as Paul commanded Timothy, "Give attendance to the public reading of the Word, to exhortation (to keep what they had heard) and to doctrine (those teachings included in the STORY line).

The Bible and history and common sense agrees. How can you PAY a reader when ACU's guy promises to train Prophets, Chanellers and Facilitators to go out and CHANGE the churches.

Click here for the 100% rejection of a hireling clergy: God and Paul knew that whatever the motives, those "who lord it over first have to hate you." How much more hate than to tell widows and hard working people that they are under the TITHE and the LAW OF GIVING.

http://www.piney.com/ChMinistry.html

I have an encyclopedia full of PROOF that the preacher as substitute for incompetent elders is anti-Biblical and anti-Christian: that is why fools love to be fooled in the words of Paul just like drinking KoolAid.

Ken Sublett
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H.Roberson
H.Roberson

July 2nd, 2004, 3:25 am #14

Ken,

It's nice to see that your glands, while they don't let you attend church, don't keep you from posting your biases on this board. My prayers are for continued good health for you - and Harold.

Everyone else:
O.K., I broke a cardinal rule of mine: NEVER read a post from Ken. Quite frankly, I haven't read all of it...have dipped in a couple places though, during the 30 minutes it took to scroll through it. So, if I've missed the point in a couple areas, just go with it.

What I think I've gleaned is that Ken doesn't think preachers should be paid anything. Interesting concept and one, which if soul damning, will send pert-near every member of every Church of Christ to eternal damnation. I suspect the only reason Ken would accept a congregation contributing to anything would be benevolence - and only if Paul was coming to get it. Or rather, no contribution for anything...just show up on the day Paul arrives and give it to him directly. Makes it hard to pay the light bill, but hey, if you can make it work...

Or perhaps Ken would only allow contributions to pay a missionary of sorts, or elders maybe. Of course only missionaires dispatched by Jesus himself (that's the example we have...before the establishment of the church so this does not authorize Church-era missionary salaries), or elders who do multiple things (as Timothy was told - but only in Crete).

I really don't care if we preach as we go or if we go to preach. The point is that preaching is the proclamation and explication of the Word of God. The method used for that proclamation (whether we read it verbatim from the Authorized version, or explain it in story, or demonstrate it in acting) is pretty much irrelevant.

Jesus and parables: Jesus does say, in Luke that he spoke in parables so that others would not understand. Did he mean everyone else, or just those that don't have ears, as the reference Jesus uses implies? I suspect the latter unless we are to picture our Saviour wasting his breath with every story. Perhaps it was only on the Lukan occasion that He wanted to frustrate understanding. In any event, He told stories people did understand...The Good Samaritan is an example. The Lawyer got the answer correct and Jesus told him to go and do likewise. In another place Jesus uses a story and then explains it to the 'crowd,' far from wanting to keep the secrets from them. Even Jesus' enemies understood his stories - without explanation, take a look at Mark 12.12.

Jesus used stories for a variety of reasons. The reality is that He used stories to make His points. If He wanted to hide something from time to time, so be it. Most times he either explained the story or the audience understood it.

Could elders, rather than the preacher use stories to explain a point? Could they ask two disputing members to act out their argument in order to have them realize how stupid their behavior had become? I suspect yes; if elders, then preachers.

I'm not sure what Ken's reference to music has to do with this discussion.

I am now returning to my cardinal rule. Sorry for the digression.

H.Roberson
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John Waddey
John Waddey

October 3rd, 2004, 7:28 am #15

An army of younger church members are clamoring for change in the worship, faith and practices of our churches. They have naught but criticism for the efforts of the past and are certain they have discovered a far superior way of "doing church" as they are fond of saying. They leave the impression on immature and gullible disciples that those of us over 50 are stubborn, close-minded and impervious to change, no matter how beneficial it might be. In this they are less than honest. Some ultra-conservative types might well be that intractable, but for the majority of us it is not change that we reject, it is unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.

--- We are willing to change such things as the hour, the length or the order of our services, but we are not willing to change the nature and substance of them. God has specified singing, praying, communing, offering and instruction as acceptable aspects of his worship.

--- We are willing to try new songs or new hymnals, but not a new kind of music. Only singing did the Spirt authorize (Eph. 5:19). Instruments, other than the voice and heart, we will not, we cannot accept.

--- We are willing to consider different methods of observing a communion service, but we cannot mix the sacred meal with a common meal (I Cor. 11:20-22). Nor can we observe the feast on a day not ordained by God (Acts 20:7).

--- We are willing to accept any or all Biblical names for the church, but we will not brook those who seek to dismiss or discredit the Biblical name "church of Christ" used by Paul (Rom. 16:16). It is never wrong to give due glory and honor to Christ the founder and head of the church.

--- We are willing to change our methods of evangelism but not the gospel message given by Christ. Methods flourish and grow obsolete but the message is divine, perfect and eternal (Rom. 1:16).

--- We can tolerate those who prefer other reputable translations than the King James Version but not those who reject the authority of the Bible.

--- We can adapt to modern improvements in our meeting houses but we cannot be party to those who would "modernize" the church which Christ built, which is revealed in Scripture.

--- We can admit our failures to measure up to the divine pattern for faith and practice, but we can never admit the church which Christ built is any less than perfect.

--- We can preach salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9), but we will never be able to preach salvation by grace alone or faith alone (Jas. 2:24).

Change in non-essentials, in matters of judgment and expediency our people have been making for the last 200 years. Changes in the God-given faith and practice of Christianity apostates have been engaging in for the same period of time. Sydney Rigdon's changes took him into Mormonism. Dr. John Thomas' changes led him into the Christadelphians. The changes of instrumental music and missionary societies took their promoters into Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination Changes regarding the doctrine of the kingdom of Christ and His return lead Robert H. Boll into Premillennialism. Changes in the teaching of the role of miraculous gifts of the Spirit led Don Finto and the Belmont Church of Christ into Pentecostalism. Changes in the government of the church and the doctrine of Christian liberty led Chuck Lucas and Kip McKeen of the Boston church into the International Church of Christ cult. The changes proposed by the "change agents" centered in Abilene, Texas are leading toward a new denominational body with which we want no part.

JHW
<font color=indigo>-----Original Message-----
From: JOHNWADDEY@aol.com [[url=mailto:JOHNWADDEY@aol.com]JOHNWADDEY@aol.com[/url]]
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 1:16 PM
To:
Subject: A Lesson to Fortify Your Faith, J. Waddey, Christianity: Then & Now

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ:

Your help is needed. Please take a few moments to review the thoughts of this lesson and then pass it on to other Christians on your email list. Those who are seeking to change the church into something new and different are working feverishly to achieve their goal. Either we respond or the Cause we love will be swept away. Together we can make a difference. John Waddey</font>
___________________________________

<font size=4> LOST AND MUST BE FOUND </font>

If Churches of Christ are going to survive this period of stress and attack and flourish as in days past, there are things we must recover.
  • We must recover and cultivate in the heart of every member a profound respect for God's Word as the final and complete authority in all things relating to our faith and practice. Our brethren must have the spirit of Samuel who said, "Speak Lord, thy servant heareth" (I Sam. 3:9). They must be convinced that the law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul" (Ps. 19:7). Not just the preacher, but all must believe and conduct themselves on the basis that Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18), that he is head over all things to the church (Eph.1:22), and that his word will judge us in the last day (John 12:48).
  • We must find and restore a sense of responsibility in the heart of every preacher to proclaim the whole counsel of God, withholding nothing needful for the church (Acts 20:20, 26).
  • Our churches must recover an understanding of our mission, our reason for existing: to preach the gospel to all of humanity (Matt. 28:19). Christ did not die to purchase a church that would serve only affluent Americans.
  • We must recover the urgency of evangelism as the duty of every disciple, every day, publicly and from house to house (Acts 20:20).
  • We must find a lost sense of brotherhood (I Pet. 2:17). We are members of a world-wide family of saved people. We are related in Christ to all who have gone before us in his church and all who will come later. We must be interested and concerned about the welfare of all the congregations of God's people (II Cor. 11:28). When one part of the body suffers we all suffer (I Cor. 12:26).
  • We must discover again an appreciation for the uniqueness of the church which Christ built. He promised to build one church, no more (Matt. 16:18). He purchased but one church with his blood (Acts 20:28). He loves and saved but one church which is his bride (Eph. 5:23-26). Though there be a thousand other religious organizations that call themselves churches, there is but one divine church of Christ (I Cor. 12:20). All others are counterfeits, in competition with the one true and genuine church for the souls of lost humanity.
  • We must recover a sense of outrage when we observe sinful, irreverent men mishandling the Word of Truth and leading souls astray (Phil. 3:18-19; II Tim. 2:17).
  • We must feel that same kind of indignation when we see or hear anyone inflicting harm on the Lord's church and a sense of duty to protect the church from those who would damage her. No one can be a good citizen of the kingdom of Christ who can stand and watch it being destroyed feel no sense of anger!
John Waddey

___________________________________
Scores of additional lessons relating to the church and the change movement can be found at http://www.christianity-then-and-now.com. Evangelistic lessons can be seen at http://www.firstcenturychristian.com
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John Waddey
John Waddey

February 24th, 2005, 8:00 am #16

An army of younger church members are clamoring for change in the worship, faith and practices of our churches. They have naught but criticism for the efforts of the past and are certain they have discovered a far superior way of "doing church" as they are fond of saying. They leave the impression on immature and gullible disciples that those of us over 50 are stubborn, close-minded and impervious to change, no matter how beneficial it might be. In this they are less than honest. Some ultra-conservative types might well be that intractable, but for the majority of us it is not change that we reject, it is unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.

--- We are willing to change such things as the hour, the length or the order of our services, but we are not willing to change the nature and substance of them. God has specified singing, praying, communing, offering and instruction as acceptable aspects of his worship.

--- We are willing to try new songs or new hymnals, but not a new kind of music. Only singing did the Spirt authorize (Eph. 5:19). Instruments, other than the voice and heart, we will not, we cannot accept.

--- We are willing to consider different methods of observing a communion service, but we cannot mix the sacred meal with a common meal (I Cor. 11:20-22). Nor can we observe the feast on a day not ordained by God (Acts 20:7).

--- We are willing to accept any or all Biblical names for the church, but we will not brook those who seek to dismiss or discredit the Biblical name "church of Christ" used by Paul (Rom. 16:16). It is never wrong to give due glory and honor to Christ the founder and head of the church.

--- We are willing to change our methods of evangelism but not the gospel message given by Christ. Methods flourish and grow obsolete but the message is divine, perfect and eternal (Rom. 1:16).

--- We can tolerate those who prefer other reputable translations than the King James Version but not those who reject the authority of the Bible.

--- We can adapt to modern improvements in our meeting houses but we cannot be party to those who would "modernize" the church which Christ built, which is revealed in Scripture.

--- We can admit our failures to measure up to the divine pattern for faith and practice, but we can never admit the church which Christ built is any less than perfect.

--- We can preach salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9), but we will never be able to preach salvation by grace alone or faith alone (Jas. 2:24).

Change in non-essentials, in matters of judgment and expediency our people have been making for the last 200 years. Changes in the God-given faith and practice of Christianity apostates have been engaging in for the same period of time. Sydney Rigdon's changes took him into Mormonism. Dr. John Thomas' changes led him into the Christadelphians. The changes of instrumental music and missionary societies took their promoters into Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination Changes regarding the doctrine of the kingdom of Christ and His return lead Robert H. Boll into Premillennialism. Changes in the teaching of the role of miraculous gifts of the Spirit led Don Finto and the Belmont Church of Christ into Pentecostalism. Changes in the government of the church and the doctrine of Christian liberty led Chuck Lucas and Kip McKeen of the Boston church into the International Church of Christ cult. The changes proposed by the "change agents" centered in Abilene, Texas are leading toward a new denominational body with which we want no part.

JHW
<font size=4> CASUAL RELIGION</font>

<font size=3 color=indigo face= Times New Roman>We live in a casual age. This is reflected in many ways. We see casual dress in public; casual manners while dining; casual grooming when going out in public; casual conduct when in public places. Most would agree that a degree of casualness is harmless, even good. The stiff formality of the past was sometimes oppressive and even pretentious. Yet most mature observers will agree that many people take their casualness too far. Especially is it disturbing and distressing to see some extreme cases of casualness in the life of the church.
  • Some are casual about the salvation of sinners. They do not take seriously the conditions God has set for receiving sinners into His family. In no uncertain terms He has told us that confession of faith, repentance and baptism are prerequisites for salvation (Rom. 10:9-10; Acts 2:38). These conditions are stated not once but in many places. Yet casual preachers are leaving the impression that one can be saved before and maybe even without baptism.
  • Some are casual about the purpose of baptism. Many churches immerse, but few immerse for the reasons given by God. For most it is to join a denominational body. One is baptized for remission of sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). Casual preachers imply that some might be saved even if they don’t understand the proper reason for their baptism.
  • Some are casual about their worship. The worship of God in many congregations cannot in any way be described as reverent. There is little or no solemnity. Such is manifested in preachers who treat their position in a casual way; with little serious study and preparation; with sermons that are more entertainment than reflections on the sacred things of God. Jokes, earthy stories and entertainment crowd out the study of the Holy Words of heaven.
  • Some preachers are casual in their handling of the Scriptures. In place of “The Bible says,” their sermons ring with, “I believe” or “Dr. So and So says,” or “the majority believe.” None of these have any currency with God, nor should they with Christians.
  • Some are casual in their singing. They confuse fun songs and entertaining songs with worship to God. Others see no problem in replacing congregational singing, which the church from earliest times has practiced, with the performance of soloists, duos, trios, quartets and choirs, all of which have no divine authority.
  • Some are casual in the observance of the Lord’s Supper. It is manifested in the demeanor and conduct of those presiding and serving. It is seen in the behavior of those in the pews. Many commune with little preparation of heart and mind, with an inclination to hurry through the observance; with a lack of somber thought and reflection. All of these reflect a casualness that is not wholesome.
  • Even public prayer can be offered in a casual manner. Men who pray without forethought as to what they will say; men who talk to God of Creation as though He were their next-door neighbor do not reflect the proper reverence for God and His worship.
  • A casual attitude toward worship can be seen in the way some folks dress. If you were invited to visit the president or some notable dignitary you would dress “up” for the occasion. For the funeral of a loved one, you would dress up. How do you dress to when you come to honor your Lord’s death?
  • Many moderns are casual in their daily discipleship. Jesus calls all men to be his disciples (Matt. 11:28-29). Those who accept the call are expected to take up their cross and follow him (Matt. 16:24). He expects us to love him above all others, even our closest kin (Matt. 10:37). We are to let our manner of life be worthy of the gospel (Phil. 1:27). We are to discern the signs of the times (Matt. 16:3). All of these and many other scriptures remind us of the seriousness of our life in Christ. For the forgiveness, the blessings and the salvation he gives us, in return he expects our lives, genuinely committed, not as a casual game of pretense!
Casualness is a common mark of those who feel empowered to change the faith, worship and practice of the Lord’s church. Since Christ, our salvation, the church and God’s word are the most important things in the world, let every child of God treat them with the reverence and respect they deserve. </font>

____________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
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Gary Cole
Gary Cole

March 22nd, 2005, 1:40 am #17

I am very unhappy to see such ignorance when it comes to this subject. I am a person that was granted musical talent by God, why else would he grant them to me if I wan't supposed to use them to praise him, right?
Now you used Eph 5:19 in your statement which says towards the end of the verse singing AND making melody in your heart to the lord JESUS CHRIST. Now lets get one thing clear, you can not send anything to the lord unless it's with you heart, and it is important to know that he will only accept things out of LOVE.
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SORRY ABOUT THAT BUT YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR TALENT TRUMPS THE WORD OF GOD SPOKEN IN SONG AND SERMON. WE WILL SHOW AGAIN THAT MUSIC IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST. Paul said to "speak to ONE ANOTHER" and make the melody IN THE HEART. The heart or spirit is the new PLACE where God accepts worship. IN the heart does not speak of "attitude" but of the NEW PLACE.

Scholars note that "THERE IS NO EXCEPTION but that Satan brought wind, string and percussion instruments." Hitler preached that by destroying the Jews in Jerusalem God gave him the permission and gift to finish the work!! Singing and playing instruments is not one of those gifts of the HOLY spirit. Paul said that the outward GIVING-heed would be speaking or singing in the ODE sense but 'melody as tunefulness belongs to the 19th century' so God didn't know about your gift or He would have included it as a "gift." Those with A holy SPIRIT cannot speak other than "what has been taught" so we know that the silly praise songs are not SPIRIT. WRONG spirit: Jesus said that SONS of the devil are those who SPEAK ON THEIR OWN.

Paul said do two things: one a religious activity and the other secular, pagan and polluted activities. The direct command in three places is to use ONE MOUTH and ONE MIND (in the spirit) to glorify God with "that which is written, the Spirit or the Word of Christ." (John 6:63). That EXCLUDES girlish praise songs.

First, to Paul the ASSEMBLY is always a form of the Greek word SYNAGOGUE. The synagogue was a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. Paul's UNIQUE worship word means to GIVE HEED to Christ by giving HEED to His word. That pretty well fits with the ABSOLUTE will of God that He SEEKS us only in the place of OUR spirit as it gives heed to the TRUTH. Sorry, but God isn't listening to the external unless it is speaking HIS WORDS. As you cannot pronounce a formula to save yourself you cannot form songs to praise Him unless it is repeating what HE has done. John Calvin agreed with that along with most church history.

The second activity is singing and melody IN THE HEART to God. You see, there are always two arenas: To one another and to God. God doesn't need to be TAUGHT and the error in Corinth was attempting to SPEAK TO GOD who needs no counselors. Paul said that they were just SPEAKING INTO THE AIR.

Paul used the word MELODY which is an APOLLO, Abaddon or Apollyon word. Like the Hebrew words for melody or the use of PSALLO in the Greek, an instrument is NEVER INCLUDED unless it is named. The Greek world Paul knew about ALWAYS added an ending when an instrument is intended.

PsalmIST or PsalmODIA are words for singing with instruments: Paul didn't use ANY MUSICAL terms. He used the word PSALMOS or PSALLO. If you intend to PSALLO in the modern musical sense you must grasp that this is a MARK that Abaddon has unleashed the LOCUSTS (muses, musical PERFORMERS: they have STINGERS in their tails to permanently DISABLE you).

WHY WOULD GOD INSPIRE PAUL TO USE THE CONCEPT OF WARFARE OR SEXUAL POLLUTION AS THE BASE FOR A CHRISTIAN "WORSHIP" WORD?

HE DID NOT: PAUL KNEW THE TEMPTATION OF THE 'UNCOVERED PROPHESIERS (WOMEN OR THE PERVERTED). THEREFORE, HE INSISTED THAT THE MELODY BE INTERNAL RATHER THAN EXTERNAL HATE AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD.

PSALLO (psao, pso means SOP a SIGN to identify JUDAS)

.I. to touch sharply, to pluck, pull, twitch, Aesch.; toxou neuran ps.
....to twang the bow-string, Eur.; belos ek keraos ps.
....to SEND a SHAFT TWANGING from the bow, Anth.; so, schoinos miltophurês psallomenê a
....carpenter's red line, which is TWITCH and then suddenly let go, so as to "leave a MARK."

II. to play a stringed instrument with the fingers, NOT with the PLECTRON, Hdt., Ar., Plat.
..2. later, to sing to a harp, SING NTest.

OF THE PHRASE "BELOS EK KERAOS PS" Paul said that the CARNAL WEAPONS or LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS do not help in our TASK of SPIRITUAL WARFARE against those who are identified as the MUSICIANS of Abaddon. First,

1. BELOS [ballô, as Lat. jaculum from jacio a DART, JAVELIN, A NET ]
..1. a missile, esp. an ARROW
..2. like enchos, used of any weapon, as a SWORD
3. the agana belea of APOLLO and Artemis in Hom. always denote the SUDDEN, EASY DEATH of men and women respectively.

KERAS
1. BOW, toxon
2. of MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, horn for BLOWING, "SEMENAI" kerati the Phrygian FLUTE, because it was tipped with horn (aulein or PLAY the FLUTE, kai kerati men aulein [TYRRHENIAN] nomizousi Poll.4.76 , cf. Ath.4.184a.
6. mountain peak, v.l. in h.Hom.1.8; spur, to k. tou orous [Note: the TYRRHENIAN king/queen was a CHANGE AGENT OF LUCIFER and was called "the singing and harp-playing prostitute]

SEMAINO [sêma]
I. to shew by a SIGN, indicate, MAKE KNOWN, point out, Hom., etc.
IV. = SPHRAGIZO, to stamp with a sign or MARK, to seal,

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great SIGNS and WONDERS; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mt.24:24

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and TEN HORNS, and seven crowns upon his heads. Re.12:3

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he DECEIVED them that had RECEIVED the MARK of the beast, and them that worshipped his IMAGE. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Re.19:20

Not to be personal, but the IMAGE of Pan was the little goat-footed, hill or mountain climing PERVERT who used his PAN PIPES to seduce the KINGS of the hills or mountains.

SEMEION (g4592) say-mi'-on; neut. of a presumed der. of the base of 4591; an indication, espec. cer. or supernat.: - miracle, sign, token, wonder.

.....Note: the NACHASH or MUSICAL ENCHANTER as the SERPENT in the garden of eden speaks directly of a SEMIAN character: not quite human but highly seductive.

I have pictures:

http://www.piney.com/SerpClarkGen3.html

KEROBATES ( [keras] ) HORN-footed, hoofed, kerobatas "PAN" he that GOES with HORNS, i.e. the HORNED GOD; acc. to Sch., he that WALKS the MOUNTAIN-PEAKS (cf. keras v.6).

The BEAST in the Book of Revelation who will dominate in the end-times as the MASCULINE school of the Word turns into A THEATER connects directly to PAN. The HORNS of the BEASTS are MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS given to the various KINGS so that they can take over their MOUNTAINS. Those who had one hour with the KING as keynoters will fit the numbers of the PAN PIPES (or pipers). The Christian Chronicle who TOOTED THE HORNS of the out of control AGENTS now says that only FIVE out of 13,000 congregations have GONE ALL THE WAY with the Babylon whore. They didn't count those who use MUSICAL BANDS or ORGANUM performance singing which is a LEGALISTIC way to FOOL the FOOLS that you are not yet INSTRUMENTAL.

Now to Amos (later). The Israelites were carrying out the captivity and death sentence imposed because of the MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai. It had nothing to do with just A BAD MENTAL ATTITUDE even if the position of Lipscomb is THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG with their worship: a man and his son going into the same TEMPLE PROSTITUTE was just the wrong "spirit."

http://www.piney.com/LipscombLiftedUP.html

"The sacrifices of the UNGODLY are ABOMINATION to the Lord,

The Abomination of Desolation in the temple is prophetic of the Abomination of Desolation which stands in the so-called holy places of the pulpit claiming that "We lead the worshipers into the presence of God." That is, WE have replaced Lord Jesus Christ. It needs NO PROVING: just listen to the garbage of song and sermon using to COLLECT those with the musical MARK of the Beast while those marked by Baptism with A holy Spirit devoted to the WORD FLEE perhaps without knowing that the musical trumpets have ALREADY SOUNDED as the MARK.

Sure, they didn't know when God in Christ came the FIRST TIME: they were looking in all the wrong places. Nevertheless, the hostile stealing of the church houses of widows all around the world man mean that ALL have seen His return signs. I think that while those with the MUSIC mark are applauding the Jacko Wackos of the world, Jesus will be in those tiny groups gathered in HIS name rather than in the names of the show stoppers. Don't ever try to fool people by saying that you are not in it for the GLORY. That is the old lucifer Principle now appearing as ZOE and her daughter TEAMS.

Ken Sublet
Ken,

Reading your response makes me happy I'm a preterist and very happy that you were not a Christian that got to Saul before he became Paul. Luckily Jesus did.

Stop worrying so much about the Devil. He has no power on this earth and not one sin of man isn't now the choice of man. Christ was victorious at the cross and defeated Satan's power and therfore he has no power over me. Am I without sin? No! I still make selfish choices on occassion.

Christians stop fighting yourselves. It is wild to see people quote scripture for their purpose but leave out the greatest commandment in the Bible and one of the last examples Christ gave in the upper room. Serve and Love One Another.

Do any of you really think the Seven Churches of Asia were exactly the same?

There is very little in scripture concerning worship because when the Church started there were very few resources and very high concerns of persecution.

So, I don't think we will find much there but when you look at the Old Testament where the law was in place and God was praised on Harp and with dancing I think you can get a better idea of what is acceptable and what is not.

In Martin Luther's words, If you are not sure just pray to the Lord follow examples and patterns as closely as you can but then if others think you are wrong and you think you are right then "Sin Boldly" for the Grace of our Lord Jesus will cover you.

I'm not saying take the attitude anything goes. I'm just saying that you will NEVER EVER get all of us to agree on one method. The Catholics tried and it didn't work. Thank GOD!

GC
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

March 22nd, 2005, 4:24 am #18

I am glad that I know that Jesus came as Spirit on the day of Pentecost and did not have to wait another 35 or so years.

I know that He came in JUDGMENT in A.D. 70 but I also know that Satan as Abbadon or Apollyon has dug up his sister singers and sorting out those with marks. The problem with date setters is that they don't really know history. If you are REAL and I am REAL then Jesus hasn't returned in the Biblical PATTERN. This Kingism is built almost totally on PROOF TEXTING church historians. They cannot get Luther right so I have found on other topics that they SIFT the scholars until they find just the right quote. But it is bunko.

You state:
  • <font color=red>In Martin Luther's words, If you are not sure just pray to the Lord follow examples and patterns as closely as you can but then if others think you are wrong and you think you are right then "Sin Boldly" for the Grace of our Lord Jesus will cover you.</font>
Methinks that you just EXPANDED Luther to hit at PATTERNS and EXAMPLES. More later.

What Luther said and you must be ashamed:
  • <font color= blue>"If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong (sin boldly), but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign.

    "But since the devil's bride, Reason, that pretty whore, comes in and thinks she's wise, and what she says, what she thinks, is from the Holy Spirit, who can help us, then? Not judges, not doctors, no king or emperor, because [reason] is the Devil's greatest whore."

    Antinomianism (meaning 'against the law' or lawlessness) says: Believe in Christ and you are saved. Obedience to God's law is optional; you are still saved even if you keep on sinning.</font>
Luther did not teach: "Let us sin that grace may abound."

Here is the big lie in Restoration Roots which you MUST be reading
  • <font color= blue>"For Luther insisted...that there is great danger in looking to external forms and patterns, for one is tempted to think that in restoring outward forms alone one has restored the essence. For Luther, the outward forms constitute only an empty shell" (117). </font>
HERE IS THE RESTORATION PATTERN BY LUTHER
  • <font color= blue>" 16. Now, Paul's thought here is that nothing should be taught and practiced in the Church
    • but what is unquestionably God's Word.
    </font>
That is a PATTERN which repudiates the doctor's PARADIGM.
  • <font color= blue>It will not do to introduce or perform anything whatever

    upon the strength of man's judgment. Man's achievements, man's reasoning and power, are of no avail save in so far as they come from God.

    As Peter says in his first epistle (ch. 4:11): "If any man speaketh, speaking as it were oracles of God; if any man ministereth, ministering as of the strength which God supplieth." </font>
Well, that is enough of the TRUTH SQUAD for now. Maybe you need to do some more reading and grasp that when Jesus returns we will rise and meet him in the air.

Ken
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Dean
Dean

June 2nd, 2005, 10:21 pm #19

<font size=4> CASUAL RELIGION</font>

<font size=3 color=indigo face= Times New Roman>We live in a casual age. This is reflected in many ways. We see casual dress in public; casual manners while dining; casual grooming when going out in public; casual conduct when in public places. Most would agree that a degree of casualness is harmless, even good. The stiff formality of the past was sometimes oppressive and even pretentious. Yet most mature observers will agree that many people take their casualness too far. Especially is it disturbing and distressing to see some extreme cases of casualness in the life of the church.
  • Some are casual about the salvation of sinners. They do not take seriously the conditions God has set for receiving sinners into His family. In no uncertain terms He has told us that confession of faith, repentance and baptism are prerequisites for salvation (Rom. 10:9-10; Acts 2:38). These conditions are stated not once but in many places. Yet casual preachers are leaving the impression that one can be saved before and maybe even without baptism.
  • Some are casual about the purpose of baptism. Many churches immerse, but few immerse for the reasons given by God. For most it is to join a denominational body. One is baptized for remission of sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). Casual preachers imply that some might be saved even if they don’t understand the proper reason for their baptism.
  • Some are casual about their worship. The worship of God in many congregations cannot in any way be described as reverent. There is little or no solemnity. Such is manifested in preachers who treat their position in a casual way; with little serious study and preparation; with sermons that are more entertainment than reflections on the sacred things of God. Jokes, earthy stories and entertainment crowd out the study of the Holy Words of heaven.
  • Some preachers are casual in their handling of the Scriptures. In place of “The Bible says,” their sermons ring with, “I believe” or “Dr. So and So says,” or “the majority believe.” None of these have any currency with God, nor should they with Christians.
  • Some are casual in their singing. They confuse fun songs and entertaining songs with worship to God. Others see no problem in replacing congregational singing, which the church from earliest times has practiced, with the performance of soloists, duos, trios, quartets and choirs, all of which have no divine authority.
  • Some are casual in the observance of the Lord’s Supper. It is manifested in the demeanor and conduct of those presiding and serving. It is seen in the behavior of those in the pews. Many commune with little preparation of heart and mind, with an inclination to hurry through the observance; with a lack of somber thought and reflection. All of these reflect a casualness that is not wholesome.
  • Even public prayer can be offered in a casual manner. Men who pray without forethought as to what they will say; men who talk to God of Creation as though He were their next-door neighbor do not reflect the proper reverence for God and His worship.
  • A casual attitude toward worship can be seen in the way some folks dress. If you were invited to visit the president or some notable dignitary you would dress “up” for the occasion. For the funeral of a loved one, you would dress up. How do you dress to when you come to honor your Lord’s death?
  • Many moderns are casual in their daily discipleship. Jesus calls all men to be his disciples (Matt. 11:28-29). Those who accept the call are expected to take up their cross and follow him (Matt. 16:24). He expects us to love him above all others, even our closest kin (Matt. 10:37). We are to let our manner of life be worthy of the gospel (Phil. 1:27). We are to discern the signs of the times (Matt. 16:3). All of these and many other scriptures remind us of the seriousness of our life in Christ. For the forgiveness, the blessings and the salvation he gives us, in return he expects our lives, genuinely committed, not as a casual game of pretense!
Casualness is a common mark of those who feel empowered to change the faith, worship and practice of the Lord’s church. Since Christ, our salvation, the church and God’s word are the most important things in the world, let every child of God treat them with the reverence and respect they deserve. </font>

____________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
'The Real Test'

Pomp and pageantry and show are not a test of principles, but they do command a big following. What is in style and what is right are often two different things. The real test is the will of God!

Ahab and Jezebel were drunk with power. The nation reeled like a drunken man in the intoxication and revelry of Baal worship. But out on Mount Carmel one day the proud king and his clamoring followers saw Baal's worship go down in defeat (1 Ki. 18). They saw the prophets of Baal — 400 of them — work themselves up in an all-day frenzy of pleading and shouting and bodily mutilation, but no answer came from their idol.

Then in the evening they heard the prayer of faith borne from the heart of Elijah to the throne of God. They saw the answer of Jehovah as the fire fell and consumed the sacrifice, the altar of stone, and even the water in the trenches. Fallen to the earth in penitence and humility, the people acknowledged their wrong. From their hearts went up the cry, "Jehovah, he is God" (1 Ki. 18:39 ASV). - by Batsell Barrett Baxter

Malachi 3:6 "For I the LORD do not change"! - since when has a Perfect God needed to change?

Hebrews 6:17-20 "So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he interposed with an oath, so that through two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible that God should prove false, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to seize the hope set before us. We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner shrine behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchiz'edek."- again I remind you brethren, that the only change God tolerates is the one from our disobedience to "complete" obedience!

Galatians 1:6-12 "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel-- not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed. Am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ. For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not man's gospel. For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ." - why must we deceive ourselves brothers?

2 Corinthians 11:3-4 "But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if some one comes and preaches another Jesus than the one we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you submit to it readily enough." - is this not true today brethren?

2 Thessalonians 1:5-8 "This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering-- since indeed God deems it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant rest with us to you who are afflicted, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus." - is this not warning enough beloved brethren of not obeying the Lord's "complete" gospel?

1 Timothy 4:1-3 "Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth." – for those of you brothers and sisters who believe we should be all inclusive of those with different faiths such as Catholicism, can you not clearly read the warning? We are living in these times now!

2 Timothy 2:24-25 "And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to every one, an apt teacher, forbearing, correcting his opponents with gentleness." - Friends, can we not reason together the heart of the truth. Must we like the unbelievers ravage each other?

Revelation 22:18-19 "I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." - can you not understand brethren the danger of preaching a different gospel?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." - who among you can deny the Lord's own words through his inspired writer?

1 Corinthians 1:10-14 "I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chlo'e's people that there is quarreling among you, my brethren. What I mean is that each one of you says, "I belong to Paul," or "I belong to Apol'los," or "I belong to Cephas," or "I belong to Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"

My fellow brethren, can you not perceive the danger you are creating? We must find common ground, lest we quarrel. Yet that common ground can only be the Lord’s word, not that of men. Some of you say I am of Batsell Barrett Baxter, others claim to belong to Rubel Shelly and still others to be followers of Max Lucado. Can Batsell, or Rubel, or Max save you? Are any of these men’s words more relevant to our salvation than that of Christ? Can you not see that you are all destroying the bride of Christ – his own church?

Luke 6:46-49 "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you? Every one who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep, and laid the foundation upon rock; and when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house, and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But he who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation; against which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great." – Can you not see brothers that it is not enough that we but believe, our faith must be active through our obedience to “all” of Christ words!

Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God-- not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
James 2:26 "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."

So finally my brothers and sisters, can we not all agree that the Lord offers Grace freely to all who will but accept it, and yet if we do not extend our hand (through faith) and grasp the free gift (a work), how then can we be saved?

May our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ lead you all and he alone. Be at peace with one another.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

June 11th, 2005, 8:31 pm #20

To tell people that all snakes are the same and imply they are all harmless is a wicked dangerous thing that can cause serious injury or death.

To tell a person that all spiders are the same is a deadly lie that can bring painful consequences.

To teach that all people are the same is an evil and dangerous thing. For a child to assume that all people are as harmless as his mother or father can be disastrous.

To teach that all religions are the same is equally false, destructive and dangerous. This is the lie of pluralism and multiculturalism. Buddhists worship their ancestors. We worship Jehovah the Creator. Buddhism has influenced the civilizations of the Orient. Christianity has produced Western Civilization. Buddhism is a religion of man, Christianity originated with God. Jehovah alone can save (Is. 43:11). Christianity is his one and only religion (John 14:6; Eph.4:4-5). All other religions are false and of no value to man (Jer. 10:14-15).

To teach that all churches (denominations) are the same is a dangerous lie. This too is the offspring of multiculturalism and pluralism. It is the mantra of denominationalism. It is now being preached by the promoters of change in our ranks.

It is equally false to say that one church is as good as another. Christ died for his church (Eph. 5:25). He purchased his church with his life's blood (Acts 20:28). He saved his church (Eph. 5:23). He adds the saved to his church (Acts 2:47 KJV). He established his church (Matt. 16:18). To tell men and women that a church established by men is equal in value to the one built by Christ [is] not only false, it is destructive to the souls of men.

To teach that all changes are equally beneficial is false and destructive. Some are beneficial, some are harmless and some are detrimental. Those that will help us be stronger, better Christians, that will help us be more in compliance with God's will we need. The harmless kind we can tolerate. But any change to the faith, worship and practice of the church that was ordained by Christ in his Word is sinful and must be rejected (Rev. 22:18-19; Deut. 4:2).

All snakes are not the same. Some are harmless, some are deadly. This truth everyone needs to know. People are at great risk who do not know the difference. One is not your enemy if he tries to help you understand which serpent is dangerous and which is harmless. Nor is he your enemy who seeks to help you discern between those who would help the church and those who would harm her (Lev. 10:10-11; Gal. 4:16).

John Waddey
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