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Marie,Central Pointe is on its way to being a denominational church. I guess the bigger the better is there philosophy. Whatever happen to saving souls? "Pastor" Dulin must have been re-baptized because we don't have pastors in the church of christ. I feel sorry for this church. They need much prayer. But, I din't know if that will even help.
Evon and Tee,
Would you please give me scripture for having a song leader? Would you also show me where the Bible says that the singing in the worship hour must be lead by one man?
Would you please give me scripture for who should pass the basket, or communion trays? Will I be condemned if my congregation has communion before the sermon and your congregation has it after the sermon?
Would you please give me scripture for having Ushers in the church and also that Ushers must be men?
I understand your opinion and I even understand your need to call your opinion THE TRUTH, but can we let the Bible have the last word on these issues? Can you use the Bible to answer my questions?
Well, it stands to reason that the LOGIC of MANY LEADERS REPLACING ONE LEADER doesn't fit. If the practices have been to use ONE song leader and you decide to add a CHOIR then you intend to deliberately sow discord for the "idolatry of talent." You intend to DEMOTE men who also have talent but perhaps not the right "gender sound" so that you UTTERLY DESTROY the body life. The OWNERS are the slaves and the "ministers" become the masters. Once this begins the goal is to silence Bible preaching and the PREACHER might have to wear a tutu.
- <font color=red>Reasoner: Would you please give me scripture for having a song leader? Would you also show me where the Bible says that the singing in the worship hour must be lead by one man?</font>
All of this is FUELED by the false teaching that churches of Christ just follow our TRADITIONALISM. You should know that A Capella was named "after the pipe organ" to fit the Sistine Chapel where it was not permitted to use instruments in the face of the Pope where OFFICIAL MASS was held. A capella means the Popes CASTRATED French 'Musical worship team' he brought from France.
All known literature marks religious musicians as perverse and perverting. I am not accusing but much of the congregation sees the MARK and that is why up to half flee leaving their "invest-uh-ments with Guuudddeee-uh in the HANDS of them what stole the church house of widows. There is no musical term or name of instrument in the Bible which is not a POINTER to innocent FEMALE children, Satan, people slaughtering types of Jesus Christ always OUTSIDE of the type of the church of Christ, warriors (David), prostitutes or Sodomites. No exception.
The fact is that ONE LEADER was called "the first heresy largely pervading the church." The APPROVED EXAMPLE of Jesus was that they simply repeated or cantillated a BIBLICAL psalm. If you obey the command of Jesus everyone will KNOW the Biblical text and you will not need a hand waver. Most gender-secure song leaders think of themselves as song STARTERS and not the performers.
The DIRECT COMMAND of Paul was that we not PLEASURE which word directly relates to arousal singing which was always perverted and perverting. THEN we can speak using ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH and glorify God by speaking THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. EVERYONE knows that a non-charismatic (non perverted or non-theatrical) song leader is NOT going to induce charismatic ecstasy. EVERYONE Knows that the close harmony of a TRAINED choir deliberately induces ECSTASY which is called MADNESS. People intend to PLEASURE the paying audience and that violated the DIRECT COMMAND of Paul who defined the SYNAGOGUE in Romans 15 as a way to prevent the DISCORD when everyone follows their PREFERENCES.
Therefore, based on the INTENT of the TEAM and the RESULT of the team singing, you violate a DIRECT COMMAND of Paul in at least four ways:
The fact is that Paul defines singing which is the ODE which is the synagogue form of SPEAKING. The word ODE further defines PSALMOS as "in the form of cantillation." That was not truly music. How do I know? Because we know that "melody as tunefulness belongs to the 19th century." The end-time singers or MUSES are the LOCUSTS John warned us about: they have scorpion stingers in their tails and the PLEASURING is really PUNISHING THE SPIRIT.
- 1. You INTEND to pleasure the people to lift them up or AROUSE them where SINGING was the best way to induce ecstasy. The word is related to HERESY. Paul said that Jesus would not do it: therefore, it is anti-Christian. Those who used the performing arts to arouse were doing heresy and they were called DEMAGOGUES. Bad foundation to build deliberate discord so you can be seen and admired.
2. You INTEND to ignore the approved example of Jesus in "hymning" or "grieving out" a Psalm, the direct commands of Paul to use ONE MIND and ONE VOICE and use THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN.
3. You INTEND to glorify the "idolatry of talent" and use that which the singy-clappy guys have composed to TRUMP the songs of Christ the Spirit.
4. You INTEND to deliberately sow discord because the SYNAGOGUE Jesus built and Paul defined would CREATE UNITY which is the meaning of UNISON SINGING.
The PURPOSE was to teach ONE ANOTHER the inspired Bible text: no one saw SINGING or the use of anything but the BIBLICAL TEXT which Paul commanded for over 350 years.
The more PERFORMERS of Twila Paris you have, the FURTHER REMOVED you are into violating the approved example and direct command of Paul and the UNIVERSALLY UNDERSTOOD view of the early church.
At least the traditional, 2,000 year old practice outside of the Catholic Presenter does not DELIBERATELY SOW DISCORD. To use "THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST IT" is by definition LEGALISTIC and for the purpose of SOWING DISCORD which IS defined as a terminal sin.
They didn't PASS the basket, remember. Paul said that giving was free will and NOT a law. If they treacherous elders did not use THE LAW OF TITHING or THE LAW OF GIVING they could not USE women because they would LOOSE their enablers. That means that YOU cannot have the widow's food money or the children's health care money to PAY you to perform and lie that it is WORSHIP. That is the LUCIFER PRINCIPLE (or Zoe) which is called TRAFFICKING.
- <font color=red>Reasoner: Would you please give me scripture for who should pass the basket, or communion trays? Will I be condemned if my congregation has communion before the sermon and your congregation has it after the sermon?</font>
Paul COMMANDED that the women be silent, do not speak, do not teach. That also includes being SEDENTARY. To the literate that is a LAW AGAINST women passing the baskets or acting as ATTENDANTS or BUSTLING about.
The AUTHORITY word Paul used is AUTHENTIA. That means both erotic and murderous. If you USE women in a PERFORMANCE or non-sedentary role you KNOW BEFORE hand that you will SOW DISCORD and go against most of church history. You know that to EXPOSE your wives and daughters is to INVITE men to GIVE HEED to their beauty or ugliness or body parts so that YOU KNOW that it will be IMPOSSIBLE to give heed to Jesus Christ. The idea of being COVERED in the church would demand that a MALE husband or father would shield them from the staring eyes. Common LUSTING especially male-maie, female-male and male-female seems NORMAL but it is perverted.
Having non-sedentary, preside over women DOES violate a direct command of PAUL and a universal LAW OF LUST known by anyone with a IQ as long as their shoe lace.
See above: a DIRECT COMMAND that the women be sedentary and silent. If ushers DELIBERATELY SOWED DISCORD then maybe we should attract "attendees" bright enough to seat themselves. You CANNOT DO synagogue of Christ where He teaches the "twos and threes" if you NEED an usher.
- <font color=red>Reasoner: Would you please give me scripture for having Ushers in the church and also that Ushers must be men? </font>
If women are highly VISIBLE they are violating the direct commandments of Paul, the common sense of all of church history and the minimal consideration for the USED women and for the males who WILL BY DEFINITION be attracted to the females and NOT to be grieving with Jesus. And don't try to fool us: they speak about USING women because they KNOW that they will suck in the cash.
- <font color=blue>Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 1 Tim 2:11
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1Ti.2:12
Esuchia (g2271) hay-soo-khee'-ah; fem. of 2272; (as noun) STILLNESS, i.e. desistance from BUSTLE or language: - quietness, silence.
Bustle is: poipnuo, bustle about, of ATTENDANTS, make haste and sweep the house, labouring for the sake of me
Esuchios (g2272) hay-soo'-khee-os; a prol. form of a comp. prob. of a der. of the base of 1476 and perh. 2192; prop. keeping one's SEAT (sedentary), i.e. (by impl.) still (undisturbed, undisturbing): - peaceable, quiet.
Hedraios (g1476) hed-rah'-yos; from a der. of hezomai , (to sit); sedentary, i.e. (by impl.) immovable: - settled, stedfast</font>
<font color=blue>3. with Verbs, hÃªsuchian agein to keep quiet, be at rest, keep silent, Hdt., attic:--so hÃªsuchian echein Hdt., attic
- Yes, wimpy burger, she can breath and sing but NOT clap because that means to VOMIT.
Euripides, Alcestis uses it: What means this stillness before the palace? Why is the house of Admetus wrapped in silence?
SigaÃ´, keep silence, used by Hom. only in imper. siga, hush! BE STILL!</font>
The concept of a PRAISE RITUAL with music is one of the most ancient, tribalistic, superstitious, ignorant and legalistic acts known to human history. The prophesier or musical agent was the OLDEST profession because it combined doing musical and literal sexuality with the gods whose agents were very often other males. The PERSONA has never changed.
Those who USE women are using the old Changeling-Hireling GRADUALISM called "navigating the winds of change." Once the people get adjusted or the OWNERS run for their lives the MISLEADERS have every intention of PROMOTING women to be deaconesses, elders and "ministry leaders" after the vocational deacons are fired. It's all prophesied.
The people BELIEVE that they can lead the "worshipers" into the presence of the gods, appease, threaten, feed and most often perform sexuality with the "gods" through the god's agents. Singers were ALWAYS known as the "harem of the gods." The word PSALLO from which the Ph.Duhs get their authority is UNIVERSALLY pointing in the literature to disturbed males trying to groom young boys who were the "ministers or priests of the Goddess" such as Zoe.
I attend the Central Pointe Church of Christ and have since it's inception. Yes, we do have women ushers, yes, we do praise the Lord as we are commanded to do, however, I have never seen women taking up the collection. If you are going to state something with the implication that it is factual, you should make sure that what you're stating is true. In your study of scripture, do you not clearly read where lying is contrary to the word of God and where liers will go?I visited the Central Pointe "church of Christ" this past weekend for their building dedication, and I saw some things that I thought were contrary to how God says we ought to worship him. Some of the things I noticed were:
1.) Women (whom the preacher refers to as his "Angels") ushering, and serving on the collection.
2.) Praise Teams ("Praise Leaders")
3.) The preacher was said to have been "re-baptized", once they got their new church building.
I know this is not right in the Church of Christ. Has anyone else observed these things???
What part of SILENT and SEDENTARY do you not understand?Ken,
After reading your lengthy response, you still failed to answer any of my questions using God's Word.
Let's pretend that I am Biblically illiterate--a common assumption.I attend the Central Pointe Church of Christ and have since it's inception. Yes, we do have women ushers, yes, we do praise the Lord as we are commanded to do, however, I have never seen women taking up the collection. If you are going to state something with the implication that it is factual, you should make sure that what you're stating is true. In your study of scripture, do you not clearly read where lying is contrary to the word of God and where liers will go?
It is so unfortunate that we can't take the scripture and look at it as it was written and not try to impose our traditions and personal beliefs on to others to make them binding.
Instead of you saying that you don't think prayer will help our congregation, you need to turn those thoughts to yourself and pray for your understanding and discernment of scripture.
We will pray for you.