Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth

Bill
Bill

October 16th, 2013, 2:28 pm #41

Donnie, regardless of whether Jesus was or was not the Word or whether Jesus is or is not God, do you believe Jesus when He said that He "came down from heaven" and would "ascend up where He was before," or do you believe Jesus didn't mean what He said? No need to publish a response here; it's just something for your private thoughts.

BTW, you've published your same message many times before, and you've published Dave's repetitious citations from John 1 as well.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2013, 4:15 pm #42


[ . . . ]

________________________________


[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Please respond to the unanswered questions I've already asked you several times ... including the same questions for Dave just above this post. Then, we will publish your temporarily "disabled" post. (By the way, this SAME message has already been published several times.)[/color]
In the beginning was the WORD.

God HAS no BEGINNING. The recorded "beginning" tells the story of God abandoning the Israelites back to Babylonianism at the EXACT TIME the people rejected grace and engaged in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The Spirit OF Christ (the Rock etal) was God's instrumental agent but not Jesus until Jesus was BEGOTTEN.

There is ONE ALMIGHTY and the pseudo-trinitiarians being strongly deluded think that THEY are the Almighty.

If you deny the ONE GOD [Theos] the Almighty
And the one GENERATED Son made Lord (Kurios) BY the Father.

Then John says that you are an ANTI-Christ, strongly deluded and doomed to chase your tail forever.

I love the Book of Enoch because it describes out day perfectly: people KNOW that they have fallen and cannot get back up. In these accounts beginning with clay tablets their sudden gasp drives them into a frenzy and they.

Form uni-sex singers, players, dancers (any body gyration) and ACTORS. They work really hard to convert other people to affirm their position and thus the Locust (muses led by Apollo, Abaddon) hold them captive and PUNISH them and collect them in certain places like the WIND (spirit) which piles them up to make burning easier: that is the Baptism of FIRE.

The Pruning Hook was also a musical instrument because of its "musical" ring.

Perhaps the "trumpets" have sounded. If not yet, beginning perhaps in heaven and especially with the flood, God periodically PURGES the masses. I think the 120 was the "preserved" gift to Jesus out of many millions of those given God's favor.





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Dave
Dave

October 16th, 2013, 4:18 pm #43

In several other threads, there have been arguments stating that Jesus did not exist at all until He was born on earth some 2,000 years ago. The Scriptures say otherwise:

"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (John 3:12-13 KJV).

Jesus says that, just as He had first come down from heaven to be on earth, so He will ascend back into heaven.

"As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever" (John 57-58 KJV).

As the manna came down from heaven, Jesus describes Himself as the living bread that "came down from heaven" to be on earth.

"When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (John 6:61-62 KJV).

Jesus tells us that He will ascend back into heaven "where he was before." Before when? Before He was born as a human being on earth. The verses above are especially important, for they unequivocably prove that Jesus had lived in heaven with God before Jesus came to earth to be born as a human being. When the Word was made flesh, Donnie's "Jesus was made Jesus" became a reality. Even though Jesus was born on earth around 2,000 years ago, He had long lived with God in heaven before then.

The Scriptures have spoken. Let them put an end to this matter.





==============================

"No Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth."

<font size="4">That we may refer to as the opposing argument.

First of all, please notice that the above premise has not been altered. It is not generally the policy of this forum to modify the title nor the contents of an original message being used as the premise of the entire thread. (Unless, of course, the premise is unclear, and it needs further explanation.)

Due to the manner in which the "title" of the thread as initially published conveyed the message of a particular dogma -- which is debatable -- it is not our intent to leave the reader the impression that it is the dogma this website endorses.

We are here to discuss.
</font>

ConcernedMembers
Donnie said "John 1:1 says that it was "the Word" that "was made flesh" in the person of Jesus Christ. Why would you even attempt to change the truth into your notion which is: "... and Jesus became Jesus"

How about this Donnie......Jesus was the Word before He had a name.....thus He was called the Word....in the beginning. Verse 14 makes clear that the Word, Jesus, took on a human form (Flesh).

No Donnie, you can't claim that I am saying that Jesus became Jesus....because Jesus wasn't named UNTIL He became flesh. Before then He was/is the Word.


Donnie, do you enjoy this power trip that you are on by exhibiting your editing powers?. The point here is that you and Ken need to be edited too at times, but therein lies the truth....you can say anything you want to....slander and ridicule and claim it to be the truth.......is this power trip worth it?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2013, 4:30 pm #44

In the beginning was the WORD.

God HAS no BEGINNING. The recorded "beginning" tells the story of God abandoning the Israelites back to Babylonianism at the EXACT TIME the people rejected grace and engaged in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The Spirit OF Christ (the Rock etal) was God's instrumental agent but not Jesus until Jesus was BEGOTTEN.

There is ONE ALMIGHTY and the pseudo-trinitiarians being strongly deluded think that THEY are the Almighty.

If you deny the ONE GOD [Theos] the Almighty
And the one GENERATED Son made Lord (Kurios) BY the Father.

Then John says that you are an ANTI-Christ, strongly deluded and doomed to chase your tail forever.

I love the Book of Enoch because it describes out day perfectly: people KNOW that they have fallen and cannot get back up. In these accounts beginning with clay tablets their sudden gasp drives them into a frenzy and they.

Form uni-sex singers, players, dancers (any body gyration) and ACTORS. They work really hard to convert other people to affirm their position and thus the Locust (muses led by Apollo, Abaddon) hold them captive and PUNISH them and collect them in certain places like the WIND (spirit) which piles them up to make burning easier: that is the Baptism of FIRE.

The Pruning Hook was also a musical instrument because of its "musical" ring.

Perhaps the "trumpets" have sounded. If not yet, beginning perhaps in heaven and especially with the flood, God periodically PURGES the masses. I think the 120 was the "preserved" gift to Jesus out of many millions of those given God's favor.





No authority, power or even WORDS originated with Jesus: The PATTERN is that a Son speaks only what His Father tells Him to speak if He is the promised Messiah being made of the genetic material of Abraham.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
because he not only had broken the sabbath,
.....but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
.....The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do:
..... for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son,
.....and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:
.....and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them;
.....even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them,
.....Even the same that I said unto you from the BEGINNING.
John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true;
.....and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
John 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,
.....When ye have lifted up the Son of MAN, then shall ye know that I am he,
.....and that I do nothing of myself;
.....but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone;
.....for I do always those things that please him.
John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,
.....If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know THE TRUTH, <b>
.....and the truth shall make you free.
</b>


Only those who continue in the Word of Jesus which came from the Father will it be POSSIBLE to know the Truth. This is the Spirit OF Truth or A holy spirit or A good conscience REQUIRED to read BLACK text on WHITE paper.</font>
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Bill
Bill

October 16th, 2013, 5:47 pm #45

God sent Jesus down from heaven to be born as a human being on earth, and God called Jesus back into heaven whence He had originally come. That's why Jesus said that He "came down from heaven" and that He would "ascend up where He was before." But Donnie doesn't believe that, does he? You don't believe that either, do you, Ken?

If Dave can keep citing John 1:1,2 as the basis for saying Jesus was the Word, then I can keep citing passages from John 3 and John 6 to prove that Jesus existed in heaven before coming to earth.
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October 16th, 2013, 5:56 pm #46

No authority, power or even WORDS originated with Jesus: The PATTERN is that a Son speaks only what His Father tells Him to speak if He is the promised Messiah being made of the genetic material of Abraham.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
because he not only had broken the sabbath,
.....but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
.....The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do:
..... for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son,
.....and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:
.....and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them;
.....even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them,
.....Even the same that I said unto you from the BEGINNING.
John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true;
.....and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
John 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,
.....When ye have lifted up the Son of MAN, then shall ye know that I am he,
.....and that I do nothing of myself;
.....but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone;
.....for I do always those things that please him.
John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,
.....If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know THE TRUTH, <b>
.....and the truth shall make you free.
</b>


Only those who continue in the Word of Jesus which came from the Father will it be POSSIBLE to know the Truth. This is the Spirit OF Truth or A holy spirit or A good conscience REQUIRED to read BLACK text on WHITE paper.</font>
Became or gignomai means to "come into a new state of being." The Word spoken before by God THROUGH the Prophets in the latter days was spoken by Jesus Christ. The WORD (Dabar) was God's WORD but in the mouth and pen of the PROPHETS. The prophets were not members of a god famil.

14 Kai ho logos sarx egeneto kai esknsen en hmin, kai etheasametha tn doxan autou, doxan hs monogenous para patros, plrs kharitos kai altheias:

In the Beginning God's SON was His Word: God SINGULAR speaks and things come into being. That's the view of the first people who used the trias word.

The WORD came into a new state of Being when God BREATHED His WORD into Jesus and JESUS articulated the Word. The WORD was still called the WORD OF GOD and was never called JESUS.

Jesus articulated the WORD which was still God's WordS. Jesus denies that HE was the Word but the Speaker.

The WORD dwelled IN FLESH Skenoo or 'pitched it's tent in a body of flesh." Something that dwells in a tent is NOT the tent.

mono-gens , es, Ep. and Ion. mouno- , (genos)
*A the only member of a kin or kind: hence, generally, only, single, pais Hes.Op.376, Hdt.7.221, cf. Ev.Jo.1.14, Ant.Lib.32.1; of Hecate, Hes. Th.426. unique.


Jesus was the only begotten by God son and is the second Adam. Jesus did not exist before He was begotten by God empowering a virgin to create a son. In ALL pagan triads the father god literally has sex with a human and she gives birth to a son.

The MAN Jesus was BEGOTTEN by God: what God BEGETS is called the SON of the FATHER. A son does not exist until the father BEGETS him. Jesus was BEGOTTEN in the TIME and BODY of Mary. Mary was NOT the Mother of God.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2013, 8:29 pm #47

Jesus did not have the power of God Almighty: it was given to him by His Father and OUR Father.

Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins,
.....(then saith he to the sick of the palsy,)
.....Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them,
saying, All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth.


The East Wing Church of Christ is that the Son (Jesus) is a CO-God and has the same authority as the Almighty. However, in the words of Rubel Shelly the "father" god and the "spirit" god TRICKED the "son" god into dying for all mankind because he was young and always raising his hand.

There MUST be apostasy and only the ELECT will SCARCELY be saved.</font>
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2013, 8:47 pm #48

MY words are made PAPER. Therefore, the paper WAS my words and WAS me all along.

I just love my gift of reading black text on white paper! I think I got that gift about grade 1 or 2 in a one room school my parents attended still flying the Confederate Battle flag.

My words become a series of 1s and 0s: the ones and zero's are MY WORDS before they BECAME my audible. The ones and zeros are still MINE and CONTAIN information not audible or visible. However, the computer in your computer reads the unreadable string and you read the WORDS. However, the MESSENGER is never the MESSAGE.

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October 16th, 2013, 10:17 pm #49

W.O.R.D. spells word: words are what people S.P.E.A.K.

LOGOS (Word) is not a people but what God speaks as the REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE governing the universe: God SPEAKS and it is DONE.

In one sense my WORDS are ME: my breath (spirit) is me but not another "people" like those with mental problems. If my breath strikes an ear it becomes PHYSICIAL.

Word or LOGOS is the opposite of rhetoric, poetry, singing, playing, dancing or acting. Jesus articulated the WORD breathed into His FLESH. His "flesh" or lips is called a "double-edged sword." A double-edge sword is a figurative image to FOOL the FOOLISH says Jesus of all parables in Matthew 13.

Jesus became FLESH when He was GENERATED by God: when a person is Generated by God like the first and second Adam, we understand that that person did not exist before he was GENERATED. If Jesus is a BEGOTTEN Son of God then he did not exist until he was begotten. If Jesus NEVER spoke on His own then Jesus was NOT the WORD but the fleshly manifestation of the Word.

Think about this and maybe God will enlighten you.

If A becomes B that does not mean that B was A BEFORE he became B.
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October 16th, 2013, 10:33 pm #50

In several other threads, there have been arguments stating that Jesus did not exist at all until He was born on earth some 2,000 years ago. The Scriptures say otherwise:

"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (John 3:12-13 KJV).

Jesus says that, just as He had first come down from heaven to be on earth, so He will ascend back into heaven.

"As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever" (John 57-58 KJV).

As the manna came down from heaven, Jesus describes Himself as the living bread that "came down from heaven" to be on earth.

"When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (John 6:61-62 KJV).

Jesus tells us that He will ascend back into heaven "where he was before." Before when? Before He was born as a human being on earth. The verses above are especially important, for they unequivocably prove that Jesus had lived in heaven with God before Jesus came to earth to be born as a human being. When the Word was made flesh, Donnie's "Jesus was made Jesus" became a reality. Even though Jesus was born on earth around 2,000 years ago, He had long lived with God in heaven before then.

The Scriptures have spoken. Let them put an end to this matter.





==============================

"No Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth."

<font size="4">That we may refer to as the opposing argument.

First of all, please notice that the above premise has not been altered. It is not generally the policy of this forum to modify the title nor the contents of an original message being used as the premise of the entire thread. (Unless, of course, the premise is unclear, and it needs further explanation.)

Due to the manner in which the "title" of the thread as initially published conveyed the message of a particular dogma -- which is debatable -- it is not our intent to leave the reader the impression that it is the dogma this website endorses.

We are here to discuss.
</font>

ConcernedMembers
In the beginning it was God's BREATH which became WORDS. Jesus said that it was God's breath (spirit) which became Words in His lips. The WORD of God speaks as a result of BREATH: that is never a PEOPLE.

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