Baptism: The Saddleback Way

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 19th, 2012, 3:19 am #51

Today, Nov 18, we learned that all Christians should "tithe."

There was a long video, teaching this Old Testament doctrine.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This is a manifestation of what happens when the now-"politically"-correct "shepherding" system selects its own succeeding shepherds. [Reminds me of the papal succession that the Roman Catholic Church labels as "The Apostolic Succession."] Point is that most of the "shepherds" now were not the same elders when the upheaval occurred around 2001.

"Lessons learned" were not/have not been learned lessons:[/color]
  • Forgetful that the "worship leader" was/is an unscriptural "church office."
    </li>
  • Forgetful that the "praise team" concept is not supported in Scripture; it is as man-made as instrumental music.
    </li>
  • Forgetful that the "praise team" implementation caused division among the elders themselves more than a decade ago.
    </li>
  • Forgetful that the "praise team" implementation divided the congregation more than a decade ago and resulted in hundreds of members leaving to seek fellowship somewhere else.
    </li>
  • Forgetful that Bruce White's teaching a decade ago on Levitical tithing would only burden the Christian.
    </li>
  • Forgetful that implementing instrumental music even only recently is already affecting attendance.
    </li>
  • ... and now NT Christians tithing for the OT priests and Levites?
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]How difficult are these lessons for the "shepherds" to learn? Really!!![/color]
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November 19th, 2012, 4:27 am #52

Who is the "promoter" of tithing? I have answered all of Madison's lies about tithing under Bruce White. I will post the data which includes several articles addressing all of the issues but they need updating. For instance, one of Bruce White's justification was that the BABYLONIANS tithed. to keep from crying.

Do you have the name of the Video Producer?

Thanks, Ken.
I didn't get the publisher of the tithing video.

It was a minute or two long, just before worship began.

It did mention Malachi 3, I believe.
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Dave Fields (Elder)
Dave Fields (Elder)

November 19th, 2012, 1:53 pm #53

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
Donnie,
Like the saying goes....if you can't beat em, join em.
Are you not qualified to be an elder?
Do you not have the willingness to serve?



++++++++++++++++

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]CM did not want to give credit to "Anonymous," poster of the above remark. We know it when it's David Fields speaking.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on November 20th, 2012, 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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November 19th, 2012, 6:40 pm #54

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This is a manifestation of what happens when the now-"politically"-correct "shepherding" system selects its own succeeding shepherds. [Reminds me of the papal succession that the Roman Catholic Church labels as "The Apostolic Succession."] Point is that most of the "shepherds" now were not the same elders when the upheaval occurred around 2001.

"Lessons learned" were not/have not been learned lessons:[/color]
  • Forgetful that the "worship leader" was/is an unscriptural "church office."
    </li>
  • Forgetful that the "praise team" concept is not supported in Scripture; it is as man-made as instrumental music.
    </li>
  • Forgetful that the "praise team" implementation caused division among the elders themselves more than a decade ago.
    </li>
  • Forgetful that the "praise team" implementation divided the congregation more than a decade ago and resulted in hundreds of members leaving to seek fellowship somewhere else.
    </li>
  • Forgetful that Bruce White's teaching a decade ago on Levitical tithing would only burden the Christian.
    </li>
  • Forgetful that implementing instrumental music even only recently is already affecting attendance.
    </li>
  • ... and now NT Christians tithing for the OT priests and Levites?
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]How difficult are these lessons for the "shepherds" to learn? Really!!![/color]
Decent--having "ingredients" in the worship that are not worshipful. Similar to the "cookies" with their "ingredients" on the stage. Hardly something that appears decent. But it's "orange"--something else to eat.

Order--the collision of Lord's Supper with baptism, where they're actually competing with one another.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 20th, 2012, 4:17 am #55

Donnie,
Like the saying goes....if you can't beat em, join em.
Are you not qualified to be an elder?
Do you not have the willingness to serve?



++++++++++++++++

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]CM did not want to give credit to "Anonymous," poster of the above remark. We know it when it's David Fields speaking.[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

1. Was that the way you became an elder at Clemson, SC -- "can't beat em, join em"?

2. Are you in favor of elders appointing elders as possible "successors"?

3. Is your approach to "the office of a bishop" culture-driven or truth-supported?

4. Do you consider "of good behavior" more important as a qualification than "apt to teach"?[/color]
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Anonymous [Dave Fields]
Anonymous [Dave Fields]

November 20th, 2012, 1:41 pm #56

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
Donnie,
If you don't know that B is William Crump, then you don't know who anyone being anonymous is. If it is David Fields, then prove it is he. If you can't do so.....then you are untruthful.....again.

Why aren't you an elder at Madison?


==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This post was authored by Dave Fields.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on November 21st, 2012, 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Terry
Terry

November 20th, 2012, 4:31 pm #57

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

1. Was that the way you became an elder at Clemson, SC -- "can't beat em, join em"?

2. Are you in favor of elders appointing elders as possible "successors"?

3. Is your approach to "the office of a bishop" culture-driven or truth-supported?

4. Do you consider "of good behavior" more important as a qualification than "apt to teach"?[/color]
C.H. Spurgeon, "The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is a knowledge of our own ignorance."
Warren Wiersbe, "Christians think they are prosecuting attorneys or judges, when, in reality, God has called all of us to be witnesses."
Vance Havner, "He who becomes a brother to the bruised, a doctor to the despairing, and a comforter to the crushed may not actually say much. What he has to offer is often beyond the power of speech to convey. But, the weary sense it, and it is a balm of Gilead to their souls."
Oswald Chambers, "The great test of a man's character is his tongue."
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B
B

November 20th, 2012, 5:27 pm #58

Donnie,
If you don't know that B is William Crump, then you don't know who anyone being anonymous is. If it is David Fields, then prove it is he. If you can't do so.....then you are untruthful.....again.

Why aren't you an elder at Madison?


==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This post was authored by Dave Fields.[/color]
Dave is completely obsessed with this identity thing. Should an elder dwell on such matters? BTW, given the mean-spirited, un-Christ-like attitude that Dave manifests toward those with whom he disagrees on this site, how on earth did he become an elder at his church anyway?
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Anonymous [Fields]
Anonymous [Fields]

November 20th, 2012, 9:34 pm #59

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
William, how goes the early sales for the encyclopedia of Christmas?

http://www.amazon.com/Christmas-Encyclo ... 0786422939

Hey William, if this David Fields is so obsessed with this identity thing, as you claim, then why are you so obsessed with this David Fields?


=================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This post was submitted by Dave Fields.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on November 21st, 2012, 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 21st, 2012, 4:52 am #60

Donnie,
If you don't know that B is William Crump, then you don't know who anyone being anonymous is. If it is David Fields, then prove it is he. If you can't do so.....then you are untruthful.....again.

Why aren't you an elder at Madison?


==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This post was authored by Dave Fields.[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

Unlike you, I have no issue with the "B" identity. That's how he wants to be addressed in response. "B" very well knows that if he were to be "Anonymous," he would be addressed as "Annie Mouse."

I think I have an alternative for you -- to address you, Anonymous, as "Annie Mouse (Dave)."

"Get over it," Dave Fields.

That's what one elder representative announced in 2002 to the Madison congregation when many members were adamantly opposed to the implementation of the "Praise Team" [a.k.a. the "Church of Christ" CHOIR] in the assembly.

The representing elder's announcement was: "Get over it ... we must move on [with our "plan" to continue to transform the church]."

Now that sounds much like the progressive, liberal agenda of the "winning" left-wingers in the national elections of 2012.

Why are you an elder of at a Clemson, SC congregation?[/color]
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