Baptism: The Saddleback Way

Anonymous
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November 18th, 2012, 4:21 am #41

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
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[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
Scripture,
Maybe they will sing all four verses of 'Just as I am' next time. That would help ya.....for sure.


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[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]That was Dave Fields -- in case Scripture wants to address a response to whomever.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on November 18th, 2012, 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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November 18th, 2012, 4:40 am #42

It would be good to have some of the old hymns back. They're certainly a hit when they are sung.

Baking cookies while a lesson is being presented, and then having the speaker to eat one of the cookies as he exits the stage, is hardly the type of change that many would like.

"Everything old is new again" is not the wisdom of "orange."

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November 18th, 2012, 5:01 am #43

Scripture,
Maybe they will sing all four verses of 'Just as I am' next time. That would help ya.....for sure.


=====================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]That was Dave Fields -- in case Scripture wants to address a response to whomever.[/color]
The biggest glitch in worship was the Sunday that the presider over the Lord's Supper "just missed" that the baptizer and obedient believer entered the pool at about the same time.

The presider made a long speech of about 5 minutes, while yet the baptism was to start, with both baptizer and respondent continuing to be in the pool--I hope the water was not cold. Then the bread was served.

Then the presiding person sat down, fully seeing the two in the baptismal pool, and yet went back up and made another speech. Then the fruit of the vine was served.

About at the end of the passing out of the fruit of the vine, the baptizer had the nerve to go ahead with the baptizing. That was a long 10 minutes or so.

Could this be another price of the "dynamic" worship?

Wow, what a dynamic worship, what an "orange" feeling! Dynamism for sure, decency and in order, can be discussed later.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 18th, 2012, 4:54 pm #44

Arniobus Against Heresy

http://www.piney.com/FatArnoHerVII.html

When Paul outlawd "Sel-Pleasure" as Christ did in Isaiah 58, the word means HERESY. Heresy is defined as using the performong arts which brought on reproach to Jesus--exposing His nakedness. Both the Lat and Greek defines the HERETIC is the smooth (effeminate) rhetorician (hypocrite), singers, instrument players and actors: ANYTHING intended to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter.

33. But the games which you celebrate, called Floralia and Megalensia, and all the rest which you wish to be sacred, and to be considered religious duties, what reason have they, what cause, that it was necessary that they should be instituted and founded and designated by the names of deities?

The gods are honoured by these, says thy opponent;
and if they have any recollection of offences committed by men, they lay it aside, get rid of it, and show themselves gracious to us again, their friendship being renewed.

And what is the cause, again, that they are made quite calm and gentle, if absurd things are done, and idle fellows sport before the eyes of the multitude?

Does Jupiter lay aside his resentment if the Amphitryon of Plautus is acted and declaimed? or if Europa, Leda, Ganymede, or Danae is represented by dancing does he restrain his passionate impulses? Is the Great Mother rendered more calm, more gentle, if she beholds the old story of Attis furbished up by the players?


The Great Mother or Babylonian Mother of Harlots (Revelation 17) uses lusted after fruits (same as in Amos) as speakers, actors (craftsmen), singers and instrument players. The BRIDES are John Warning against the Heiros Gamos or the Holy Sex. The Milstones make a piping sound identifying the place of the Grinder-Prostitutes. Corrupting the Word is called adultery.

Will Venus [Lucifer-Zoe] forget her displeasure if she sees mimics act the part of Adonis also in a ballet? [in dancing motions] Does the anger of Aleides die away if the tragedy of Sophocles named Trachinioe, or the Hercules of Euripides, is acted? or does Flora think

that honour is shown to her if at her games she sees that shameful actions are done, and the stews abandoned for the theatres?

Is not this, then, to lessen the dignity of the gods, to dedicate and consecrate to them the basest things which a rigidly virtuous mind will turn from with disgust, the performers of which your law has decided to be dishonoured and to be considered infamous?

The gods, forsooth, delight in mimics; and that surpassing excellence which has not been comprehended by any bureau faculty, opens [adapts] its ears most willingly to hear these plays, with most of which they know they are mixed up to be turned to derision; they are delighted, as it is, with the shaved heads of the fools, by the sound of flaps, and by the noise of applause, by shameful actions and words, by huge red fascina [microphone].
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 18th, 2012, 8:35 pm #45

The biggest glitch in worship was the Sunday that the presider over the Lord's Supper "just missed" that the baptizer and obedient believer entered the pool at about the same time.

The presider made a long speech of about 5 minutes, while yet the baptism was to start, with both baptizer and respondent continuing to be in the pool--I hope the water was not cold. Then the bread was served.

Then the presiding person sat down, fully seeing the two in the baptismal pool, and yet went back up and made another speech. Then the fruit of the vine was served.

About at the end of the passing out of the fruit of the vine, the baptizer had the nerve to go ahead with the baptizing. That was a long 10 minutes or so.

Could this be another price of the "dynamic" worship?

Wow, what a dynamic worship, what an "orange" feeling! Dynamism for sure, decency and in order, can be discussed later.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Scripture,

Did this occur on Nov. 4? If so, I wasn't there at the time.

It's a bit confusing to me -- it appears that someone had the urgency to be buried with Christ in baptism in order to receive: (a) forgiveness of sins and (b) the gift of a spirit of holiness [the scriptural way per Acts 2:38; 3:19] ... at the time ... when the saints were to commemorate the Lord's suffering and death on the cross. (Long-winded, I know.]

How could both instances have occurred at the same time? A result of the emphasis on "dynamic worship"? What should have taken precedence? Baptism "before lightning strikes"?

Speaking of "dynamic worship," during the Keith Lancaster musical era, the "worship program" often included no less than 8 "praise" songs. There were times when as many as 13 musical "praise" and "feel-good" campfire songs were sung. The notion that singing of "praise songs" was real "worship" -- all else was secondary.

But now the "dynamic worship" includes women giving testimonies on stage regarding their successful social fund-raising campaigns or a "lady in pants" co-leading in "musical worship."[/color]
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November 18th, 2012, 8:54 pm #46

This event took place several months ago.

Occasionally a baptism will take place in the middle of the worship, not after the sermon, as it did that Sunday. If the baptizer and confessor had come out just two seconds earlier, perhaps the Lord's Supper would have been delayed.

But the baptizer apparently didn't notice they were in the pool, and went on with a talk and prayer for the bread. Then sat down. At this time, he most definitely noticed the two in the pool, when he sat down in the audience. But he continued as if they were not in the pool, and had the prayer and talk for the fruit of the vine. Toward the end of passing out the fruit of the vine, the baptizer proceeded to do the baptizing, but the fruit of the vine was still being passed out. By this time 5 or 10 minutes the confessor was in the pool, as we would say "waiting for remission of sins."

What should have been done? Maybe a matter of opinion, but I personally would suggest "suspending" the Lord's Supper, and completing the baptizing. Then continue with the Lord's Supper.

This is what our press would call a "worship malfunction."

Everyone was aghast.
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November 18th, 2012, 8:58 pm #47

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Scripture,

Did this occur on Nov. 4? If so, I wasn't there at the time.

It's a bit confusing to me -- it appears that someone had the urgency to be buried with Christ in baptism in order to receive: (a) forgiveness of sins and (b) the gift of a spirit of holiness [the scriptural way per Acts 2:38; 3:19] ... at the time ... when the saints were to commemorate the Lord's suffering and death on the cross. (Long-winded, I know.]

How could both instances have occurred at the same time? A result of the emphasis on "dynamic worship"? What should have taken precedence? Baptism "before lightning strikes"?

Speaking of "dynamic worship," during the Keith Lancaster musical era, the "worship program" often included no less than 8 "praise" songs. There were times when as many as 13 musical "praise" and "feel-good" campfire songs were sung. The notion that singing of "praise songs" was real "worship" -- all else was secondary.

But now the "dynamic worship" includes women giving testimonies on stage regarding their successful social fund-raising campaigns or a "lady in pants" co-leading in "musical worship."[/color]
Today, Nov 18, we learned that all Christians should "tithe."

There was a long video, teaching this Old Testament doctrine.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 18th, 2012, 9:17 pm #48

Who is the "promoter" of tithing? I have answered all of Madison's lies about tithing under Bruce White. I will post the data which includes several articles addressing all of the issues but they need updating. For instance, one of Bruce White's justification was that the BABYLONIANS tithed. to keep from crying.

Do you have the name of the Video Producer?

Thanks, Ken.
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November 18th, 2012, 10:23 pm #49

Today, Nov 18, we learned that all Christians should "tithe."

There was a long video, teaching this Old Testament doctrine.
If a Christian congregation teaches Old Testament tithing as a must-do thing, then it might as well teach Saturday worship, burning sacrifices, and observing "holy" days like Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, Passover...in short upholding all the tenets of the Mosaic Law.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 18th, 2012, 11:10 pm #50

That's True: we have noted that God turned the Jews over to worship the starry host. After the instrumental fall from Grace at Mount Sinai, God commanded that the Jacob-cursed Levites "stand in ranks" to execute any godly person who came near or into any holy place. That is because none of it was commanded and the Monarchy was patterned after Babylon to which they were sentenced for captivity and death.

In order that the Levites bore the burdens of the system and their own sins, God gave Levi no inheritance but gave them a tenth of the PROFIT from the FARMS ONLY stolen from the Canaanites and owned by the tribes: it was rented to the people and in return the people who got free food producing property (only) were to pay tithes which went to various groups. Only 3 or 4 of the 7-year cycle went to the tribe of Levi. The tribe gave the priests ten percent of the ten percent to keep people on guard at the temple in a rotating cycle.

The food (only) was stored at the temple and was given as a DAILY DOLE to the priests and Levites when they were on rare duty.

The other yearly tithes were stored at home for the poor, taken to the yearly festivals which were musters for draft age males, and the 7th year no one planted so there was no tithe.

So, these people are ignorant of the Old Testament and are attempting to collect 7 out 7 years RENT directly for the 'priests' without first having GIVEN the farmers FREE FARMS. Once you hit the slippery slope it is likely that people are "demonstrating the holiness of sin" which has some old tradition.

Modern Jews don't tithe because there is no God-Cursed priesthood. Food producers and distributors may give 1% of their PROFIT to the poor (only) or they can burn it since it is FOR THE LORD.

The tribe of Levi performed the services which our governments supply including keeping the peace, education and going to war. And the MAD HATTORS want you to pay the INCOME TAX also.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on November 18th, 2012, 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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