Anonymous
Anonymous

November 16th, 2012, 9:48 pm #31

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
Hey B.....tell me when I have stopped jumping up and down. Since it expends quite a bit of energy I want to know if I am tired yet.
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B
B

November 17th, 2012, 2:19 am #32

Has Dave pitched Saddleback's philosophy of baptism to his church yet? Since Dave is an "elder," I'm sure they would listen to whatever he told them, because Dave believes that elders are infallible. LOL!
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Robert
Robert

November 17th, 2012, 6:42 pm #33

Pagan Believer's Baptism.

http://www.piney.com/BapPagan.html

Makes sense to me: I always get clean by THINKING about taking a bath. So, after the grease and grime are cleaned away I take a Bath just to please my wife and tell her that smell and grime was not MY FAULT.

So-Called Believer's Baptism does not mean that a believer complies and is baptized: in ancient paganism, Apollo (Abaddon, Apollon) was called the WASHER. The mark of PSALLO points to Apollo who was the father of musical harmony and perverted worship.

You remember that the false Jews were called MEN acting like children in the marketplace: they piped trying to INITIATE others with the result of the singing-lamenting and dancing. After being initiated into sexuality usually the gay brotherhood (all religious hoods have been like that), they were WASHED and needed to take a bath--badly.

I remember boylings speaking about feeling CLEAN after one of the musical worship performances.

Chapter XXI.-The Views of Redemption Entertained by These Heretics.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of "redemption" as there are teachers of these mystical opinions.

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place,
that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God,
and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.

Chapter XXI.-The Views of Redemption Entertained by These Heretics.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of "redemption" as there are teachers of these mystical opinions.

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place,
that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God,
and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.

Chapter XXI.-The Views of Redemption Entertained by These Heretics.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of "redemption" as there are teachers of these mystical opinions.

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place,
that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God,
and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.


The American Baptist religion is not Christian but is Gnosticism. Gnosis or wisdom does not come from reading the Bible but from an experential encounter all alone with the Spirit.

2. They maintain that those who have attained to perfect knowledge must of necessity be regenerated into that power which is above all.

For it is otherwise impossible to find admittance within the Pleroma, since this [regeneration]
it is which leads them down into the depths of Bythus.
For the baptism instituted

by the visible Jesus was for the remission of sins,
but the redemption brought in by that Christ who descended upon Him, was for perfection;

and they allege that the former is animal, but the latter spiritual. And the baptism of John was proclaimed with a view to repentance, but the redemption by Jesus was brought in for the sake of perfection.
Ken,

What is a "boyling"? Is this some sort of demonic reference to children in your church? What is up with you? Are you willingly aligned with demonic forces, or what?

Come on, Ken, here is what you said: "I remember boylings speaking about feeling CLEAN after one of the musical worship performances."

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 17th, 2012, 7:49 pm #34

The internet is alive with the sounds of mocking "musical worship teams" and even lilting, tilting preaching as disgustingly effeminate--unless you are the one IMPOSING them. Boylings is more Biblical than thinglings or flangy-clangy those who Jesus called MEN who were piping in the marketplace like CHILDREN.

Here is some Isaiah 3 by the Spirit OF Christ.

Isaiah III. For, behold, the Lord, Yahweh of Hosts, takes away from Jerusalem and from Judah supply and support, The whole supply of bread, And the whole supply of water; [2] The mighty man, The man of war, The judge, The prophet, The diviner, The elder, [3] The captain of fifty, The honorable man, The counselor, The skilled craftsman, And the clever enchanter. [4] I will give boys to be their princes, And children shall rule over them.

Propheta and prphtes , ae, m., = prophêtês, I. a foreteller, soothsayer, prophet
Hariolus I. a soothsayer, prophet, prophetess Chresmodotes one who gives oracles,

Elquum
I. In Aug. poets, and their imitators among prose writers, for eloquentia, eloquence, *
II. In late Lat., declaration,eloquia pulchritudinis, fine words, Vulg. Gen. 49, 21; id. Prov. 4, 20 al used with Ignis.


The IGNIS is the Fire Lighter or Incentor meaning Song Starter.

Boys: Effemino II.Trop., to make womanish, effeminate, to enervate, A.Womanish, effeminate,
Histrio, stage-player, actor, mimus, boaster, used with
Scaena, 1. Of a place like a scene of a theatre, school of rhetoric, display of eloquence.
B. In mal. part., that submits to unnatural lust: pathicus, Cinaedos: a sodomite, catamite, one who dances publicly

Matt. 11:8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft [Catamites] clothing are in kings houses.
Matt. 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Matt. 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

1 Kings 14:[22] 10. and will utterly sweep away the house of Jeroboam, as a man sweeps away dung, until it be all gone. Judah did that which was evil in the sight of Yahweh, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they committed, above all that their fathers had done. [23] For they also built them high places, and pillars, and Asherim, on every high hill, and under every green tree; [24] and there were also sodomites in the land: they did according to all the abominations of the nations which Yahweh drove out before the children of Israel.


I don't accuse them but I think this is why up to half of the owners FLEE for their lives without understanding why. The persona of religious musicians has always been gender-tilted. Plato says that this GENDER-BLEED can actually cause the disease of effeminacy in the AUDIENCE.

Paul EXCLUDED the Dogs and Concision from the worship "In the Spirit" and the Dogs were Cynics identified by their wolfish singing or howling used to attract mates.

Jesus and the first amendment gives me the right to HISS and apparently the watching world sees it even as elders Paul warned about as wolves lust to turn, as boasted, "the church into a Theater for Holy Entertainment."

I need to post the links on Isaiah 3 so you can check for yourself. Those who PIPED were still under the Dionysian influence which had sexuality and homosexuality in the Temple. The boys who remained were forced to Wear the Hat of Hermes which made them into a phallic symbol. They performed in the Temple.

By PIPING they wanted to induce the lamenting or singing and dancing. That Dionysus (Wineskinner) initiation hurts really bad and the instrumental music was to drown out the cries of pain.

I just don't know why people will lie, cheat and steal just to be able to manifest the universal persona whether they know what is going on or not.


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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 17th, 2012, 9:01 pm #35

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
Rick Warren Says that Jesus was Wrong: Baptism does not Save. However, you cannot be a member of Rick Warren's Baptist Church without being baptized.

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

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B

November 17th, 2012, 11:42 pm #36

Not all Baptists believe that baptism is required for church membership. At the Baptist church where I once attended, some of the long-term members there had NEVER been baptized. So not only did they believe that baptism played no part in salvation, they also believed that baptism was entirely optional.
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Joined: January 28th, 2012, 10:19 pm

November 18th, 2012, 1:28 am #37

Rick Warren Says that Jesus was Wrong: Baptism does not Save. However, you cannot be a member of Rick Warren's Baptist Church without being baptized.

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Consider that in Psalm 11 the spirit states that God tests men both good and evil.

I offer for your consideration that this kind of error teaching about baptism has as one purpose to intensify and raise our awareness of what God has to say - both to our inner selves but also to all those we teach and influence. See the comment of the spirit in Psalm 119:71.

The negative attitudes and comments about those of us who hold the view that baptism is for the remission of sins is to test us and make us more determined to teach the whole truth of the matter. This includes pointing out who is in error and why they are in error.

In Peters sermon in Acts 2 he pointed out the first and primary need of the hearers was to repent and be baptized. Paul when in Damascus had this baptism for remission of sins as first and primary - see Acts 9 & Acts 22. Note the Bible definition of calling on the Lord. Calling on the name of the Lord means to obey him! Those that don't obey God have not called on his name
and are not the beneficiaries of his promises.

Consider what may follow after this Rick Warren error about baptism. They may try to say that we should be recognizing all denominations because of their "good works" and that these good works are just as important as "our" teaching on baptism.

Remember the soldier in Acts 10 was doing good works - yet he was told to summon Peter to be taught about baptism and learn what primary obedience is and do it. SIn is what separates us from God and we begin the Christian life by addressing that issue first.

Comments Welcome
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 18th, 2012, 3:17 am #38

Not all Baptists believe that baptism is required for church membership. At the Baptist church where I once attended, some of the long-term members there had NEVER been baptized. So not only did they believe that baptism played no part in salvation, they also believed that baptism was entirely optional.
I read a post somewhere and the Baptist was lamenting that up to half of them wanted to be baptized that night. This was bad because they had to be educated and certified before they could be baptized.

Your experience may represent a larger group so that there is no unified belief. Donnie collected about 140 names of distinct Baptist Denominations. They have always been pretty fractured.

They just find a "saved by faith" passage and then dismiss the massive evidence elsewhere in the Bible. Too many now just make up their own "Scripture."
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 18th, 2012, 3:56 am #39

Consider that in Psalm 11 the spirit states that God tests men both good and evil.

I offer for your consideration that this kind of error teaching about baptism has as one purpose to intensify and raise our awareness of what God has to say - both to our inner selves but also to all those we teach and influence. See the comment of the spirit in Psalm 119:71.

The negative attitudes and comments about those of us who hold the view that baptism is for the remission of sins is to test us and make us more determined to teach the whole truth of the matter. This includes pointing out who is in error and why they are in error.

In Peters sermon in Acts 2 he pointed out the first and primary need of the hearers was to repent and be baptized. Paul when in Damascus had this baptism for remission of sins as first and primary - see Acts 9 & Acts 22. Note the Bible definition of calling on the Lord. Calling on the name of the Lord means to obey him! Those that don't obey God have not called on his name
and are not the beneficiaries of his promises.

Consider what may follow after this Rick Warren error about baptism. They may try to say that we should be recognizing all denominations because of their "good works" and that these good works are just as important as "our" teaching on baptism.

Remember the soldier in Acts 10 was doing good works - yet he was told to summon Peter to be taught about baptism and learn what primary obedience is and do it. SIn is what separates us from God and we begin the Christian life by addressing that issue first.

Comments Welcome
I discovered that I had posted Psalm 119 a long time back.

http://www.piney.com/Psalm.119.html

There are lots of parallels and I find that when David is engaged in personal devotion to God it is always in connection with God's Word.

He speaks about the Word of God
And he MEDITATES in his heart.

We have noted that 'psallo' has no musical meaning: it just means to pluck kind of string. It is based on the SOP word which speaks of grinding something into a fine powder. The word GRACE in Colossians 3:16 also means a divine influence on the heart.

"making melody in the heart" or "with grace in the heart" I believe has the same meaning as MEDITATING in the heart. You cannot really learn anything until you hear it or speak it and then rehearse it in your mind.

Psalm 119 seems pretty important to you and I can understand why. It's pretty hard to think about it and then turn around and make loud noise which destroys any meditation or rehearsing of what you speak or sing.


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Scripture
Scripture

November 18th, 2012, 3:58 am #40

Consider that in Psalm 11 the spirit states that God tests men both good and evil.

I offer for your consideration that this kind of error teaching about baptism has as one purpose to intensify and raise our awareness of what God has to say - both to our inner selves but also to all those we teach and influence. See the comment of the spirit in Psalm 119:71.

The negative attitudes and comments about those of us who hold the view that baptism is for the remission of sins is to test us and make us more determined to teach the whole truth of the matter. This includes pointing out who is in error and why they are in error.

In Peters sermon in Acts 2 he pointed out the first and primary need of the hearers was to repent and be baptized. Paul when in Damascus had this baptism for remission of sins as first and primary - see Acts 9 & Acts 22. Note the Bible definition of calling on the Lord. Calling on the name of the Lord means to obey him! Those that don't obey God have not called on his name
and are not the beneficiaries of his promises.

Consider what may follow after this Rick Warren error about baptism. They may try to say that we should be recognizing all denominations because of their "good works" and that these good works are just as important as "our" teaching on baptism.

Remember the soldier in Acts 10 was doing good works - yet he was told to summon Peter to be taught about baptism and learn what primary obedience is and do it. SIn is what separates us from God and we begin the Christian life by addressing that issue first.

Comments Welcome
It may be true that some other Churches of Christ have used the Rick Warren literature.

But, the difference between some of these churches and the Madison congregation, is that the "shepherds" or "eldership", whichever expression one uses, is one of trust.

Churches that do not trust their leaders are much more upset when an video instrument of modification is used.

The "orange" decision by the "shepherds" to introduce a showtime atmosphere sets the congregation on pins and needles, and increases distrust.

See the history of Charles Stanley's "prodigal son" Andy, for a thorough understanding of "orange."



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