B
B

November 16th, 2012, 2:35 am #21

Donnie mentioned that, I, "You posted as "Anonymous." [Why do you keep doing it this way? Afraid?]"

Double standard....it's why you put your wall around B (William Crump.)


How many times do we go round and round about this?


You want to post me as David Fields, but when I mention William Crump being B you go in hiding....actually you usually don't post it.


Double standard.....but for this site, it is the least of your troubles and woeful ways.
"Anonymous" reveals no name whatsoever. "B" is my name here, even if it is just one letter. Dave needs to get used to it and get over it. He can use "D" or "DF" if he doesn't want to post as "Dave," but no, he insists on using "Anonymous," then throws a fit when Donnie substitutes Dave's real name. Donnie would likely do the same to B if he routinely posted as "Anonymous." So, the only double standard here is the one in Dave's mind. The lesson Dave needs to learn is: don't post as "Anonymous."
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 16th, 2012, 2:54 am #22

Donnie noted the "tenses of salvation." In Ephesians 4 Paul is showing how Grace and Faith HAS and WILL continue to save them. However, there is no reason to expect that any of our readers can lift their eyes up to the top of the chapter and show how GRACE and FAITH has and will save us from the Kosmos or World order: remember that David spoke of praising in the FIRMAMENT and not in the Synagogue. That makes sense since the Jews had been abandoned to the world order, the worship of the starry host. Purpose-Driver and Madison prove without a doubt that they are wallowing in the things Paul wanted us to be saved FROM.

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:
he that believeth not God hath made him a liar;
because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is <font face="arial">IN
</font><font face="arial" size="4"> his Son. 

 </font>
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on November 16th, 2012, 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

November 16th, 2012, 3:39 am #23

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
William Crump said ""B" is my name here, even if it is just one letter."
B is not your name, here nor anywhere else. It is an alias. I will ask you what Donnie asked me "[Why do you keep doing it this way? Afraid?]"

Donnie gives out his name. Ken gives out his name. B gives an alias.
You scared?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 16th, 2012, 4:53 am #24

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Annie Mouse [OOPS! I meant "Anonymous."],

You should know by now that often a message or post submitted by the messenger needs a response from someone else.

For example, if "ServantForHim" publishes a message to which I am responding, I would like to address him as "Servant." "Hello, Servant, how are you today? I hope you're doing fine."

Or, "B, you have presented an argument that seems irrefutable. Would you quote passages or references from Scripture to prove your point? BCV, please."

We'll have to respect "B" for choosing that as his "handle" or user name. If time comes when "B" changes to "C" or to his middle name or last name, that will be his choice.

But "Anonymous"? How many Annie Mouses are there?

Now, let's get back to the discussion from which you, Dave, are trying to deviate.[/color]
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B
B

November 16th, 2012, 5:25 am #25

William Crump said ""B" is my name here, even if it is just one letter."
B is not your name, here nor anywhere else. It is an alias. I will ask you what Donnie asked me "[Why do you keep doing it this way? Afraid?]"

Donnie gives out his name. Ken gives out his name. B gives an alias.
You scared?
Surely Dave has learned by now that posting as "Anonymous" doesn't cut it with Donnie, so Dave should just comply and use some other consistent identity, like "D" or "DF," if he doesn't want his real name to show up here. "Anonymous" is no identity at all.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

November 16th, 2012, 1:24 pm #26

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
Anyonymous is it....not D, like B, nor anything else.

Donnie, your respect for B in anything.....shows you why this site is a scam. As far as the discussion goes here, if you had wanted to do the right thing, then you would have responded to my post (with the additional information) instead of editing it. Your editing and slander against others say to the readers "this is my site, I pay for it, and I will do and say anything that I wish." In other words "its my ball, I am mad now, so I am taking my ball and going home."

A scam is a scam.
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B
B

November 16th, 2012, 5:35 pm #27

Dave is mad because things on this site are not going his way, so he jumps up and down and squeals "Scam, scam, scam!" That's really comical!

BTW, I get the impression that Dave would like for churches of Christ to adopt Saddleback's philosophy of baptism. You know, the philosophy that says baptism has nothing to do with salvation and is merely a follow-up act you do some time after you get "saved" when you ask Jesus into your heart as your personal Savior. Saddleback seems to be Dave's "dream" church.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 16th, 2012, 5:39 pm #28

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
By GRACE are we saved by FAITH: Grace is a name for Jesus made to be both Lord and Christ. Christ as Word and Righteousness and GRACE came to teach us NOT to do what we are saved FROM in Ephesians 2.

Grace and Faith is a GIFT: we could never believe by any power of our own: the Gospel IS that power. It is a GIFT that:

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

OUR INITIAL SALVATION AS "SAVED FROM THAT CROOKED RACE AT BAPTISM. This table shows that Paul always repeats the Raised with Christ concept in several of his letters:




When a person drives or walks to their job they walk or drive by faith: faith alone is NEVER seen in the literature and if he BELIEVED that he would be safe on the road but REFUSED to go to work he would be fired. Maybe not for violating a law but for being too ignorant to walk BY FAITH.

We have shown that a person who walks by FAITH is a person who does not walk by WORKS or by LAW. Rick Warren and the self-appointed elders not APT to teach that which has been taught are still walking by LAW and by WORKS. The believe the pagan view that they can PERFORM certain musical or dramatic rituals and be WORSHIPING God.

A person who hires a theatrical performer Rhetorician is a person who is a HYPOCRITE and a legalists because he believes that he can violate the LOGOS word and be MOR POWERFUL if he speaks about himself or tries to infiltrate other PERFORMERS.

In all recorded history such as the Jacob-Cursed Levites their ABANDONMENT forced them to perform EXORCISM to drive away the bad demons (traditionalists) and attract the good angels (progressives).

ANY attempt to AID the Word of God or to perform the so-called worship is called LEGALISM. And since it drives away the Disciples who want to hear from Jesus, it is THE primary definition of SECTARIAN or HERESY.



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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 16th, 2012, 6:02 pm #29

Dave is mad because things on this site are not going his way, so he jumps up and down and squeals "Scam, scam, scam!" That's really comical!

BTW, I get the impression that Dave would like for churches of Christ to adopt Saddleback's philosophy of baptism. You know, the philosophy that says baptism has nothing to do with salvation and is merely a follow-up act you do some time after you get "saved" when you ask Jesus into your heart as your personal Savior. Saddleback seems to be Dave's "dream" church.
Pagan Believer's Baptism.

http://www.piney.com/BapPagan.html

Makes sense to me: I always get clean by THINKING about taking a bath. So, after the grease and grime are cleaned away I take a Bath just to please my wife and tell her that smell and grime was not MY FAULT.

So-Called Believer's Baptism does not mean that a believer complies and is baptized: in ancient paganism, Apollo (Abaddon, Apollon) was called the WASHER. The mark of PSALLO points to Apollo who was the father of musical harmony and perverted worship.

You remember that the false Jews were called MEN acting like children in the marketplace: they piped trying to INITIATE others with the result of the singing-lamenting and dancing. After being initiated into sexuality usually the gay brotherhood (all religious hoods have been like that), they were WASHED and needed to take a bath--badly.

I remember boylings speaking about feeling CLEAN after one of the musical worship performances.

Chapter XXI.-The Views of Redemption Entertained by These Heretics.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of "redemption" as there are teachers of these mystical opinions.

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place,
that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God,
and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.

Chapter XXI.-The Views of Redemption Entertained by These Heretics.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of "redemption" as there are teachers of these mystical opinions.

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place,
that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God,
and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.

Chapter XXI.-The Views of Redemption Entertained by These Heretics.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of "redemption" as there are teachers of these mystical opinions.

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place,
that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God,
and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.


The American Baptist religion is not Christian but is Gnosticism. Gnosis or wisdom does not come from reading the Bible but from an experential encounter all alone with the Spirit.

2. They maintain that those who have attained to perfect knowledge must of necessity be regenerated into that power which is above all.

For it is otherwise impossible to find admittance within the Pleroma, since this [regeneration]
it is which leads them down into the depths of Bythus.
For the baptism instituted

by the visible Jesus was for the remission of sins,
but the redemption brought in by that Christ who descended upon Him, was for perfection;

and they allege that the former is animal, but the latter spiritual. And the baptism of John was proclaimed with a view to repentance, but the redemption by Jesus was brought in for the sake of perfection.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 16th, 2012, 7:14 pm #30

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
John in Revelation 17f makes the following connections:
1. Defines the Babylonian Mother of Harlots which most people would understand if they knew about the Greek culture.
2. Defines her priests as emasculated "Fruits"
3. Defines the muses or LOCUSTS in the classics along with speakers and instrument players.
4. He calls them SORCERERS: when you see and hear the MUSES you know that the SIGN or striking the flag in the ekklesia has happened and that Jesus really DID visit their theater to pick up the Candlestick of 7 spirits of divine knowledge.
5. One would wonder why at the highest levels of scholarship insist that there is NOTHING in the Bible against using instruments to silence the voice of the victim.
6. Even if you can explain away John's warning about the "sounds like harps" and other sounds are sounds of JUDGMENT, you must wonder why they are not even able to discuss Revelation 18 showing that the sorcerers and dogs and liars will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire.
7. Don't be surprised that they cannot muster the courage to "give an account" for their deliberate lies.

http://www.piney.com/ClasPlaCratylus.html


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