Anonymous
Anonymous

November 15th, 2012, 9:50 pm #11

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
When someone calls you out, proves that you and your information was/is false, as I did with B, Donnie, and this site, well....it hurts. What makes matters even worse is when they have been shown the truth, and instead of correcting their paths, they instead get vengeful, spiteful (gnash teeth), and just plain ole nasty. They attack the messenger. The best thing? They can attack me and anyone else they wish, but the Word of God can't be touched. The Truth is the Truth. ALWAYS! Praise God! Hallelujah!
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B
B

November 15th, 2012, 11:02 pm #12

Yes, we showed how untruthful Dave was with the Saddleback site, and now he's on a vengeful streak, gnashing his teeth and squealing blue blazes. How amusing!
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 15th, 2012, 11:11 pm #13

When someone calls you out, proves that you and your information was/is false, as I did with B, Donnie, and this site, well....it hurts. What makes matters even worse is when they have been shown the truth, and instead of correcting their paths, they instead get vengeful, spiteful (gnash teeth), and just plain ole nasty. They attack the messenger. The best thing? They can attack me and anyone else they wish, but the Word of God can't be touched. The Truth is the Truth. ALWAYS! Praise God! Hallelujah!
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave Fields,

I shouldn't have to remind you that it is the change agents and you who've strayed away from the truth or teachings from the Holy Scripture that the church of Christ Jesus adheres to. Certain teachings of yours are not from the Word of God; therefore, you have not shown us the truth at all as you claim. Besides, you're the one going against the grain.

ConcernedMembers has no intention of attacking anyone personally. It intends only to expose the false teachings that are contrary to New Testament specifications for His church.

For your information, expect me to re-post your original message [YOUR OWN WORDS] which was NOT changed -- including your ACCUSATION: "YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again." Remember?[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 15th, 2012, 11:18 pm #14

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
November 13 2012 at 10:47 AM
(no login)
from IP address 130.127.42.38

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 15th, 2012, 11:43 pm #15

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

The above was your original post.

1. You posted as "Anonymous." [Why do you keep doing it this way? Afraid?]

2. Your own original words were unedited.

3. I added the statements (in BLUE) from the Saddleback website re: "About Salvation." The reason was that you were being deceitful and misleading to the readers by NOT including THAT very significant paragraph from the Saddleback website.

4. The way you had it, the Saddleback information was difficult to read and unorganized without the list of items numbered. I simply replicated the easy-to-read format from the website.[/color]

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B
B

November 16th, 2012, 12:06 am #16

So what really is Dave's point about Saddleback anyway? From reading the site, it's clear that the Saddleback folks do not believe baptism is essential for salvation. To them, baptism is merely a sign that you've already been "saved" after accepting Jesus into your heart as your personal Savior. Is Dave trying to tell us that he would like to see the church of Christ adopt Saddleback's philosophy of baptism?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 16th, 2012, 12:08 am #17

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

The above was your original post.

1. You posted as "Anonymous." [Why do you keep doing it this way? Afraid?]

2. Your own original words were unedited.

3. I added the statements (in BLUE) from the Saddleback website re: "About Salvation." The reason was that you were being deceitful and misleading to the readers by NOT including THAT very significant paragraph from the Saddleback website.

4. The way you had it, the Saddleback information was difficult to read and unorganized without the list of items numbered. I simply replicated the easy-to-read format from the website.[/color]
Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.


That's a lie: it tells Jesus Christ that HE is a liar: it tells Peter that he is a liar.

Only those who were SAVED by being baptized were added to the church-the house of God.

1Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
and if it first begin at us,
.....what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


Those who have not been baptized have NOT been added to the Church by Christ. Those will SCARCELY be saved. Why weren't the saved when they believed? Those who have NOT obeyed the Gospel or "pattern intended to be imitated will NOT be Saved.

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
.....For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?


Pistis or faith means to OBEY or TO COMPLY. Only those who have obeyed the gospel are EVER called believers.

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus
.....Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
.....that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
.....even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,
.....we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
.....that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


Those who have not been BURIED will not be RAISED
Those who have NOT been planted IN THE LIKENESS of His Death
.....Will NOT be raised in the likeness of His RESURRECTION
.....That means that the will NOT receive A New, Holy Spirit

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
.....his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
.....whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,
.....but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


The FORM is a TUPOS or "A Pattern Intended to be Imitated."
Those who have NOT obeyed that pattern are NOT THEN free from Sin.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou?
.....arise, and be baptized,
.....and wash away thy sins,
.....calling on the name of the Lord.


Baptism is the ONLY way for one to CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD.
Those who trust THEIR ability to believe have NOT called on the Lord.
Therefore, they have NOT had their sins washed away.

Those who were baptized IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ had their sins remitted and received A holy spirit.

1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient,
.....when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
.....while the ark was a preparing,
.....wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto EVEN BAPTISM DOETH NOW SAVE US
.....(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
.....but the REQUEST FOR a good conscience toward God,)
.....by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


A good conscience is A holy spirit. Those who have NOT been baptized have NOT been saved because BAPTISM is the Christ-ordained way to CALL ON THE NAME of the Lord Requesting A holy spirit. Those who reject baptism do NOT have A holy spirit of A good consciousness. That is why, according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 3 they cannot read BLACK text on BROWN paper.

Only Satan has a vested interest in working so hard to force the simple-minded to call God a liar. We are told that "vipers hate water." That's why John told the Viper Race that they would be baptized with FIRE and as CHAFF they will be cast into the fire.</font>
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 16th, 2012, 12:28 am #18

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

That's a Satanic lie.

We have noted above that NO ONE is called a BELIEVER until after they have been baptized.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said,
.....Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,
.....and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


Paul said that he preached the SAME GOSPEL as Peter.

The Jailer could not be a believer because Faith comes by hearing.

Acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

When he heard the WORD OF THE LORD he understood that Paul commanded him to be baptized

Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night,
.....and washed their stripes; [repented]
.....and was baptized [for the remission of sins]
.....he and all his, straightway.
Acts 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them,
.....and rejoiced, BELIEVING in God with all his house.


The eunuch is not said to have gone away REJOICING until he came up OUT of the Water. Baptism to DEMONSTRATE your salvation to the watching world but denying the power of Christ's INSTRUMENTAL MEANS is proof that they are ANTI-Biblical and ANTI-Christian who said that if you do NOT comply and be baptized you will be DAMNED. Consumed in Isaiah 1.

You see, he must have believed at one level or he would not have been baptized.
Who told him TO BE BAPTIZED?

he was NOT called a believer until AFTER he was baptized.
The people at Pentecost did not have A holy spirit until after they obeyed in baptism.
They were not ADDED to the Church by Christ until they were baptized.

Simply by using Rick Warren's material the elders have REFUSED to believed the RECORD of the SON the Father made. Therefore, they CANNOT be saved and are trying to give themselves a whisper of a hope as to why they should not burn for lying about music and deliberately sowing discord.</font>
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Anonymous
Anonymous

November 16th, 2012, 12:51 am #19

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
Donnie mentioned that, I, "You posted as "Anonymous." [Why do you keep doing it this way? Afraid?]"

Double standard....it's why you put your wall around B (William Crump.)


How many times do we go round and round about this?


You want to post me as David Fields, but when I mention William Crump being B you go in hiding....actually you usually don't post it.


Double standard.....but for this site, it is the least of your troubles and woeful ways.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 16th, 2012, 2:29 am #20

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptis ... .Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.
==============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.[/color]
Donnie noted the "tenses of salvation." In Ephesians 4 Paul is showing how Grace and Faith HAS and WILL continue to save them. However, there is no reason to expect that any of our readers can lift their eyes up to the top of the chapter and show how GRACE and FAITH has and will save us from the Kosmos or World order: remember that David spoke of praising in the FIRMAMENT and not in the Synagogue. That makes sense since the Jews had been abandoned to the world order, the worship of the starry host. Purpose-Driver and Madison prove without a doubt that they are wallowing in the things Paul wanted us to be saved FROM.

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