Ask away

Joined: August 27th, 2015, 11:28 pm

October 30th, 2015, 8:29 pm #41

The command and historic example was to "speak that which is written for our LEARNING" (ROM 15) as the way to glorify or praise God. Halal as David's praise word can be good or ugly: it can mean "to make yourself vile" thinking that God cannot punish mad men

When you PRAISE God you don't sing alleluia, alleluia over and over. Psalm 104 is an example of LISTING what God has done and giving HIM credit: otherwise it might be a curse. David "praised" God for letting him spill all of the blood of innocents.

Job 13:22 Then call thou, and I will answer: or let me speak, and answer thou me.

Psa. 104:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

1288. Jbarak, baw-rak´; a primitive root; to kneel; breaking down, by implication to bless God (as an act of adoration), and (vice-versa) man (as a benefit); also (by euphemism) to curse (God or the king, as treason):—x abundantly, x altogether, x at all, blaspheme, bless, congratulate, curse, x greatly, x indeed, kneel (down), praise, salute, x still, thank.

alleluia confitemini Domino et invocate nomen eius adnuntiate inter gentes opera eius


We may despise the Word of Christ by refusing to let Him speak.

Psa. 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Psa. 104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
Psa. 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Psa. 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Psa. 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
Psa. 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
Psa. 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

Falling down on your knees or breaking down in front of God is not rejoicing at your own singing ability. A local visitor taught us how to sing so that you can fee the "drum beat." Here is an opinion.

http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/drums.htm

Makes one wonder, if anything done with human hands is subject to error, then how many of our "traditional songs" are teaching error. I have had two Christians recently tell me that there are some songs that they don't sing, because they don't agree with the subject. I was also told they personally know of other people who don't sing certain songs either. If you want to make sure you are not teaching false ideas, why not just use what God provided.

Also, if women are to be silent in the assembly, why are they singing? If we are teaching and admonishing in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, looks to me that women are teaching men. Maybe, this is why the charismatics have gotten a foot in the door, they see the irrationallity of our interpretations of certain scriptures

Has anyone really thought about what Christians did before the hymns of the 1800's and 1900's were written? Do you think they were using the material that our Heavenly Father provided?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 31st, 2015, 1:01 am #42

We sang a song in assembly Sunday night and the word "hallelujah" was used several times. I searched the scriptures and this word was no where to be found. Can anyone tell me the derivation?
The word in the New Testament is Alleluia

Rev. 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying,
Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev. 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Rev. 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Rev. 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, SAYING, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

g239. allelouia, al-lay-loo´-ee-ah; of Hebrew origin (imperative of H1984 and H3050); praise ye Jah!, an adoring exclamation: — alleluiah.

From Halal:
h1984. halal, haw-lal´; a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence, to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively, to celebrate; also to stultify:—(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool(-ish, -ly), glory, give (light), be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, (sing, be worthy of) praise, rage, renowned, shine.

h1966 meaning LUCIFER Christ called the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden is derived from Halal.

h1966. heylel, hay-lale´; from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:—lucifer.

And from Yah
3050. ahh, yaw; contraction for 3068, and meaning the same; Jah, the sacred name:—Jah, the Lord, most vehement. Compare names in “-iah,” “-jah.”

Halal with the added Chalal means to profane, to play the flute, to defile, to take one's inheritance, Pipe, player on instruments, pollute, cast as profane, prostitute.

Psa. 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.


God had turned the Jews over to worship the starry host: none of the instruments were permitted in any holy place and if David tried to play in the Holy or Most Holy Place the Levites were commanded to execute him.

All performance music in a 'holy place' is defined as polluting and in the case of David was to shout praying for God to destroy His enemies or to celebrate what He though was God slaughtering all of those who bad mouthed him.

The papers where WE have imposed "instrumental praise" is always a BOAST over those who follow the Regulative Principle or LOGOS. The performance is a stick in your eye with the boast that you can get over it or get out. Halal in that sense means that you intentionally PROFANE the holy place: that place which is never so holy that we cannot jab God with a Sax but so holy that YOU must be hear any time the doors are opened.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 31st, 2015, 1:21 am #43

Makes one wonder, if anything done with human hands is subject to error, then how many of our "traditional songs" are teaching error. I have had two Christians recently tell me that there are some songs that they don't sing, because they don't agree with the subject. I was also told they personally know of other people who don't sing certain songs either. If you want to make sure you are not teaching false ideas, why not just use what God provided.

Also, if women are to be silent in the assembly, why are they singing? If we are teaching and admonishing in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, looks to me that women are teaching men. Maybe, this is why the charismatics have gotten a foot in the door, they see the irrationallity of our interpretations of certain scriptures

Has anyone really thought about what Christians did before the hymns of the 1800's and 1900's were written? Do you think they were using the material that our Heavenly Father provided?
The Jews understood that to give God credit it was important to READ the Word with the "preside elder" making certain that the reader did not add any comments or even inflections or pauses which are commentary on the text. The operative ACTION is to READ or SPEAK: you have 168 hours to primp, prance, sing, pick and grin. God only requests ONCE A WEEK Reading Assembly. Anyone who tries to enhance the Word to fit OUR CULTURE is simply not a disciple of Christ.

The ministry or Teaching has the same 168 hours a week and women may be the last best hope with their contacts and writing skills. The unique WORSHIP word is to "give attendance to the reading of the Word" as the only resource for comfort and doctrine.

1 Timothy 2 is consistent with all of the descriptions of God's people in assembly: both men and women sit down and remain silent or peaceable but for different reasons if you read the text:

The Men were prone to let WRATH break out which is ORGE or an ORGY: men promoting singing, playing, clapping, shouthing or any body worship were thereby silenced because the PEACE is always destroyed from the pulpit claiming the authority of the elders. The elders authority it to "teach that which has been taught" and to refute those who do NOT teach that which has been taught..

Women were to be silent because men used women as oracles or priestesses to collect and fleece the visitors. They still claim to USE women and we know why.

The MARK to silence and sit down everyone is self-evident unless the men claim the role of Jesus.

Purpose: 1Timothy 2:4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.

There is only ONE SOURCE and worship leader.

1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,

Only the MAN CHRIST JESUS was ordained to deliver the Word, Logos or Regulative principle which OUTLAWS self-authored speakers, singing and playing instruments or any man's opinion or personal experiences which he claims by virture of elders hiring him", a superior role claimed by the scribes and pharisees.

1Timothy 2:6 who gave himself a ransom for all; the TESTIMONY to be TESTIFIED in its own times; [KAIROS]

Rev. 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT of prophecy.


The Kairos Church Planting Ministry supported by LU and all of the MOTHERS trying to establish daughter or sattelite congrregations understands that KAIROS also means the RIGHT TIME TO STRIKE after which they can claim the duboius Halleluia to shout victory Nike-Over-Laity when God only covenants with the LAOS excluding Priests and Levites.

Maybe we have been suckered: it seems that they don't want you to be able to speak or even sing the psalms which they hypocritically claim as authority for instruments when they know they will never sing the psalms. The Psalms tell the sad story of the Jews being abandoned: even David seems to have lost his god.

Good questions.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 31st, 2015, 1:28 am #44


Praise is a good thing!

********

Psalm 150King James Version (KJV)

150 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times](1) I've read that music and dancing are close friends. There are passages that support this friendship:[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]--- Exod.15 [20] And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

--- Judg.11 [34] And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

--- 1Sam.18 [6] And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music.

--- 1Sam.29 [5] Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands?

--- 2Sam.6 [14] And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. [16] And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

--- 1Chr.15 [29] And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart.

--- Luke.15 [25] Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times](2) In Psalm 150:6, it says: "Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord." Are animals and other creatures that BREATHE included in this group of worshipers?

(3) I wonder if Psalm 150 speaks of an assembly of New Testament saints; and if so, what the name of that church is.[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Rocnar
Rocnar

October 31st, 2015, 11:44 am #45

Makes one wonder, if anything done with human hands is subject to error, then how many of our "traditional songs" are teaching error. I have had two Christians recently tell me that there are some songs that they don't sing, because they don't agree with the subject. I was also told they personally know of other people who don't sing certain songs either. If you want to make sure you are not teaching false ideas, why not just use what God provided.

Also, if women are to be silent in the assembly, why are they singing? If we are teaching and admonishing in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, looks to me that women are teaching men. Maybe, this is why the charismatics have gotten a foot in the door, they see the irrationallity of our interpretations of certain scriptures

Has anyone really thought about what Christians did before the hymns of the 1800's and 1900's were written? Do you think they were using the material that our Heavenly Father provided?
Dianna said:

"Also, if women are to be silent in the assembly, why are they singing?"

*****************

Roles in Worship

…5But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. 6For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. 7For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.…

Rocnar:

A preacher once told me that until a woman covers her head in Church there will be problems with her Church obedience until they do so. Perhaps this would be a good starting point...
Quote
Share

Bill
Bill

October 31st, 2015, 2:07 pm #46

Makes one wonder, if anything done with human hands is subject to error, then how many of our "traditional songs" are teaching error. I have had two Christians recently tell me that there are some songs that they don't sing, because they don't agree with the subject. I was also told they personally know of other people who don't sing certain songs either. If you want to make sure you are not teaching false ideas, why not just use what God provided.

Also, if women are to be silent in the assembly, why are they singing? If we are teaching and admonishing in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, looks to me that women are teaching men. Maybe, this is why the charismatics have gotten a foot in the door, they see the irrationallity of our interpretations of certain scriptures

Has anyone really thought about what Christians did before the hymns of the 1800's and 1900's were written? Do you think they were using the material that our Heavenly Father provided?
Dianna, what specific hymns do your friends think are teaching error? Are there any hymns that you think are teaching error? For example, the lyrics to "Holy, Holy, Holy" say "God in three persons, blessed Trinity." According to your interpretation of Scripture (not what anyone else thinks), does that hymn teach error?
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 31st, 2015, 4:28 pm #47

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times](1) I've read that music and dancing are close friends. There are passages that support this friendship:[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]--- Exod.15 [20] And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

--- Judg.11 [34] And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

--- 1Sam.18 [6] And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music.

--- 1Sam.29 [5] Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands?

--- 2Sam.6 [14] And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. [16] And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

--- 1Chr.15 [29] And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart.

--- Luke.15 [25] Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times](2) In Psalm 150:6, it says: "Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord." Are animals and other creatures that BREATHE included in this group of worshipers?

(3) I wonder if Psalm 150 speaks of an assembly of New Testament saints; and if so, what the name of that church is.[/color]
People need to be careful when they sing, hop and skip in the firmament:


7549. raw-kee´-ah; from 7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.
7554. r raqa{, raw-kah´; a primitive root; to pound the earth (as a sign of passion); by analogy to expand (by hammering); by implication, to overlay (with thin sheets of metal):—beat, make broad, spread abroad (forth, over, out, into plates), stamp, stretch.



Psa. 114:4 The mountains skipped like rams, and the little hills like lambs.
Psa. 114:5 What ailed thee, O thou sea, that thou fleddest? thou Jordan, that thou wast driven back?
Psa. 114:6 Ye mountains, that ye skipped like rams; and ye little hills, like lambs?
Psa. 114:7 Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the God of Jacob;

Quote
Like
Share

Rocnar
Rocnar

November 1st, 2015, 1:09 pm #48

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times](1) I've read that music and dancing are close friends. There are passages that support this friendship:[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]--- Exod.15 [20] And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

--- Judg.11 [34] And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

--- 1Sam.18 [6] And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music.

--- 1Sam.29 [5] Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands?

--- 2Sam.6 [14] And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. [16] And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

--- 1Chr.15 [29] And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart.

--- Luke.15 [25] Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times](2) In Psalm 150:6, it says: "Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord." Are animals and other creatures that BREATHE included in this group of worshipers?

(3) I wonder if Psalm 150 speaks of an assembly of New Testament saints; and if so, what the name of that church is.[/color]
Psalm 92:1New King James Version (NKJV)

Praise to the Lord for His Love and Faithfulness

A Psalm. A Song for the Sabbath day.


92 It is good to give thanks to the Lord,
And to sing praises to Your name, O Most High;
Quote
Share

Bill
Bill

November 1st, 2015, 3:25 pm #49

Dianna, what specific hymns do your friends think are teaching error? Are there any hymns that you think are teaching error? For example, the lyrics to "Holy, Holy, Holy" say "God in three persons, blessed Trinity." According to your interpretation of Scripture (not what anyone else thinks), does that hymn teach error?
I've heard of some people who refuse to sing "Christ Arose" ("Low in the Grave He Lay") before taking the Lord's Supper. They say that song is about Christ's resurrection whereas the Lord's Supper is about His death (as if the two were mutually exclusive), so it is "wrong" (yea sinful) to sing that song in that situation. Of course, those people seem to forget that the lyrics refer to Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

And then I've also heard of people who refuse to sing "There Is Sunshine in My Soul Today" on cloudy, rainy days. They say that since the song mentions "sunshine," then it is "wrong" (yea sinful) to sing that song on days that are not filled with bright sun and clear skies.

The bottom line: those people don't have enough worthwhile projects to occupy their time.
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 1st, 2015, 7:56 pm #50

Just checking in from Well House. Hope all is well, I miss you guys!



[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Jason, your ID, please? So, when was the last time you posted?[/color]
Quote
Like
Share