Article on Liberal Snobism: Grace Centered Magazine

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

November 24th, 2011, 10:26 am #31

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

This website exists to expose the change agents operating in the brotherhood. The Madison congregation is only one of those they have victimized. The adverse effect? Division in the congregation that began with the eldership, many of whom resigned or left. Then half of the membership left, many of whom sought fellowship somewhere else.

How many times does it need to be explained to you?

I know how enamored you are with the change agents and their efforts to transform the church that Christ built into Community Church-ism. But that is not my problem. It is your problem.

You cannot deny the fact that you're always there to defend the practice of operating mechanical music in the assembly. Virtually all congregations of the church of Christ do not indulge in musical worship, and here you are in defense of using inanimate and lifeless music devices in the assembly. Your congregation does not use instrumental music, but, again, you're quick to defend its use.

Whenever one submits posts to be published for debate or discussion, he is a participant, a partaker. If he considers this website good, then he is a partaker or a participant. If he considers this website evil, then he is a partaker or a participant just the same -- and this happens to be your case.[/color]
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Anonymous
Anonymous

November 24th, 2011, 2:25 pm #32



[. . .]

==========================

The above post about "catfighting" was catfighting in itself and non-constructive. Another post by the same author, with a similar message, has also been deleted.
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on November 24th, 2011, 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 25th, 2011, 12:46 am #33

Just curious what some of you think about this article:

It talks about how "Christian" liberals talk a good game with acceptance and grace but when it comes to someone more conservative than them they name call, insult and question their salvation. Things they would call judgmental.

Kind of suprised me it was on Grace Centered.
The Bible is filled with the fact that seeking the OLD PATHS is NOT seeking to hold on to the traditionalism of the '50s.

The "Old Paths" hurt word most often intends to mock those who refuse to see worship as performance preaching, singing and playing instruments. That is based on either ignorance of the facts or just an immature attempt to hurt those who refuse to follow their NEW PATHS which were first trodden around the towers of Babylon and the same ziggurat in Jerusalem.

History is certain that people use musical performance "to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter" and to FORCE others to build their temple or feed the temple musicians which in the Greek system were called PARASITES. Then and now they produce nothing of value and disturb even those whose minds are jittered by complex music and the MOTION of not-really-talented boy childs wanting to suck up all of the attention (worship) for themselves. Many of the DIVERTED churches from the 1860's onward called in the band when the imposed too much debt on people against their will.





This is THE WAY people afflict you and take you captive to keep THEIR institution from failing.

Don't get it? That's fine: the command of Christ was to GO and not worry about the increase.
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Dave
Dave

November 25th, 2011, 1:02 am #34

Just curious what some of you think about this article:

It talks about how "Christian" liberals talk a good game with acceptance and grace but when it comes to someone more conservative than them they name call, insult and question their salvation. Things they would call judgmental.

Kind of suprised me it was on Grace Centered.
Donnie said "Whenever one submits posts to be published for debate or discussion, he is a participant, a partaker. If he considers this website good, then he is a partaker or a participant. If he considers this website evil, then he is a partaker or a participant just the same -- and this happens to be your case."

Donnie, No....and, again....No.
If I am EXPOSING you and your wicked site here then I am NOT nor ever will be a participant. It is called LOGIC! Comprende?

How many articles or books are published every year where the author does or doesn't consent to its use? He/she doesn't have to consent to its use. It is called public domain.....ever heard of such? As long as the author is recognized as being the originator of said document or quote, then it can be used most anywhere.
If the democrats use an article from Newt Gingrich, is he then a participant of the democratic party? I submit my concerns and postulates for and about you and this wicked site and you post them. Do you have to? No! As in the past, there are certain replies and concerns that I have submitted and you have decided not to post. You just decided before this post to not post a reply from Bill Crump. Good for you. If you care to continue to post my concerns that speak of the Truth and validity that that this site is indeed wicked.....then again.....good for you, but it does NOT make me a participant of this site.

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 25th, 2011, 6:09 am #35

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

You're absolutely correct -- that we do not have to post your messages. But we do. Simple!!! Your concerns and postulates are not about me, but about the change agents' and your agenda being unacceptable to this website and to the church of Christ worldwide.

Why do you think your messages and those of the change agents are published here no matter how anti-church of Christ they are? For the simple reason -- exposure!!!!!! Time and again, this site has pointed out consistently how destructive the change agents really are to the church, as well as their disciples like you.

Dave, you're no Newt Gingrich, a conservative in the political world whereas you have a progressive, liberal mindset when it comes to certain New Testament teachings and principles.

Dave, this conservative website has no semblance to the liberal, progressive democratic party, either.

So, your logic 101 premise is illogical.

Overall, you're probably the only one occasional condemner of this website. Contrary to your feelings about your own self, that certainly explains your antagonism towards the church of Christ and its stand for New Testament teachings. Conclusion: you and the change agents are the ones going against the grain -- not ConcernedMembers.[/color]
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Anonymous
Anonymous

November 25th, 2011, 3:09 pm #36

[. . .]

========================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Anniemouse,

This website's exposure of the destructive nature of the change agents is no trivial matter, but your "catfight" with this website is. You know fully well that this site is always ready to publish anyone's doctrinal issue to be discussed.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on November 25th, 2011, 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 25th, 2011, 8:38 pm #37

Just curious what some of you think about this article:

It talks about how "Christian" liberals talk a good game with acceptance and grace but when it comes to someone more conservative than them they name call, insult and question their salvation. Things they would call judgmental.

Kind of suprised me it was on Grace Centered.
If I am EXPOSING you and your wicked site here then I am NOT nor ever will be a participant. It is called LOGIC! Comprende?

Spiritual worship is RATIONAL Worship is IN the PLACE of the human spirit made into A holy spirit after baptism. The power is the ability to read the Word (LOGOS) of God which is absolutely sacrificed in order to become a Doctor of the Law or a Theologian: making a science and profession out of the FREE word God commanded to be the ONLY resource for the School of the Word or, in the words of the Campbells as the meaning or "restoration": A School of Christ.





The meaning of a Disciple is that you accept that fact or be tasked to "do music (mystery) to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter" which was prophesied and fulfilled on Jesus. He called the Scribes and Pharisees who were defacto zealots by naming them, Hypocrites where Christ the Spirit identified performance preaching, singing and playing instruments. Also anyone who CAN be seeker sucked to enable these people are hypocrites or just pretending.

Furthermore the MYTHOS was universally known to mark the SOPHISTS (performers) which also marked the gender-bent (plato).

The Logos marked the masculine, rationally who always voted to SEND OUT the flute girls or harp-girls who forced people to be "drunk on wine" IN ORDER that as gentlemen they could hold a discussion (ekklesia or synagogue). Of course if you are of the Crooked Race--the Mythos--then it may not be possible to recognize the truth and are therefore reduced to girlish whining.

http://www.piney.com/Logos.Mythos.Word. ... Music.html

By absolute definition Christ prophesied that their would be no Canaanite or trader in the house of God and Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 defines that there CANNOT be any such people in A Church of Christ: Revelation 17-18 shows that the tooty-fruities will be removed along with the speakers, singers and instrument players at the SAME TIME the Lamps are removed: John called them Sorcerers with instrumentnal accompaniment while the PATTERNISTS rest on the Soothsayers with instrumental accompaniment.

A Mythos / Sophoist CANNOT read and understand the thought pattern more than one phrase out of context. One of the ancient facts confirmed by the Gabby Giffords case is that she could SING a sentence but not SPEAK the sentence. That is because (everyone always understood) that singing uses a totally different part of the bran than speaking. MUSIC bypasses the LOGICAL mind and no one in history has adopted instrumental music (with lots of discord) without NEEDING to deceive the people and convince them that their PERFORMANCE is worthy of A WAGE and their temple as the best PORTAL to the gods. Fools LOVE to be fooled says Paul.

[347d] such is their lack of education--put a premium on flute-girls by hiring the extraneous voice of the flute at a high price, and carry on their intercourse by means of its utterance.

But where the party consists of thorough gentlemen who have had a proper education,
you will see neither flute-girls nor dancing-girls nor harp-girls,
but only the company contenting themselves with their own conversation,
and none of these fooleries and frolics--
each speaking and listening decently in his turn,

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime
were written for our learning, that we through patience
and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation
grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth
glorify God, even the Father
of our Lord Jesus Christ.


WHY IS IT THAT THE MUSICATORS KNOW NOT A SINGLE PREACHER-SCHOLAR WHO CAN OR WILL AFFIRM THAT TO BE AN INCLUSIVE-EXCLUSIVE DIRECT COMMAND?
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Dave
Dave

November 25th, 2011, 11:34 pm #38

Just curious what some of you think about this article:

It talks about how "Christian" liberals talk a good game with acceptance and grace but when it comes to someone more conservative than them they name call, insult and question their salvation. Things they would call judgmental.

Kind of suprised me it was on Grace Centered.
Donnie, if it is a left and you call it a right.....will that mean it is a right then?
No.
If you call it white when it is black.....does that then make it white?
No!
You are anti-church of Christ when you are the one who condemn churches of Christ, and yes, even the very brethren that attend the very Madison church of Christ that you attend, and YOU are the the antagonist and enemy of the church of our Lord Jesus Christ...no matter how many times you try to turn it around otherwise.

Donnie, why am I the only one who continually condemns this site? I would like to break it down LOGICALLY again for you. I am ONE of very few who posts replies, at all, here. You can claim viewership until our Lord comes again, but people are wary of this site. Most people don't want to have anything whatsoever to do with this site. You are here to warn people about the supposedly BAD churches of Christ. I am here to warn people of you.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 26th, 2011, 1:31 am #39

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

I have the veiwership stats -- you do not. Since viewership has been steady, if not rising, it is an indication of the level of interest in this website, whether or not YOU post and continue to post anti-church of Christ messages. You are fooling yourself into thinking, just because you are a church leader, that YOU yourself (personally) share the views of churches of Christ worldwide. You do not, but/although your own congregation does share those views.

You keep bringing up Madison as if it did not experience the upheaval caused by the change agents. Remember, Dave, that there was division in the leadership itself as decision was being made as either: (1) to go forward with the CHANGE AGENTS' Community Church-driven approach to grow the church numerically or (2) to reject the damaging cause and propaganda of the change agents. Unfortunately, by a slim majority and by discounting what the other elders upheld, the alignment was with the CHANGE AGENTS. The rest of the facts is obvious: half of the membership left.

So, as long as you remain delusionary as to what really happened, I will always remind you of the facts. You will not get away with this.

There you have it, Dave. And you may be correct in bringing it up again and again, as the truth of what happened just needs to be reinforced again and again.

A website that informs congregations and individual members of the church of the anti-church of Christ propaganda of the change agents simply means that it is pro-church of Christ.

The change agents are anti-church of Christ. You are pro-change agents; therefore, you are anti-church of Christ. I have never heard nor seen it in writing that you support the church of Christ and its stance against mechanically operating musical devices in its assemblies and against denominationalism. The change agents are pro-denominationalism; they are pro-instrumental music; they are pro-restructuring the church of Jesus Christ; they are pro-modifying God's principles and directives. They are anti-church of Christ. Period. Until you distance yourself from the change agents, you will be sharing their own agenda for the church that you claim to be a member of.[/color]
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Dave
Dave

November 26th, 2011, 7:55 pm #40

Just curious what some of you think about this article:

It talks about how "Christian" liberals talk a good game with acceptance and grace but when it comes to someone more conservative than them they name call, insult and question their salvation. Things they would call judgmental.

Kind of suprised me it was on Grace Centered.
Donnie said that "A website that informs congregations and individual members of the church of the anti-church of Christ propaganda of the change agents simply means that it is pro-church of Christ."

And the Truh is that a website, such as this one, that condemns congregations and individual members of the church of Christ, simply means that it is anti-church of Christ. If Donnie or anyone else has something against a brother, a sister, a leader, or anyone else from the church, then they should keep it within the church. To bring it here, where even pagans can view.....is sinful.
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