Article on Liberal Snobism: Grace Centered Magazine

Ray
Ray

November 17th, 2011, 2:48 pm #11

Something seems to be missing. Ken, was there a link with the above post? I noticed you did an edit on the post. Maybe something was left off?
Racnor, Ken never links to the source so that we can read for ourselves whether his attacks are accurate or not. The only links he provides are to his own opinion pieces.
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Racnor
Racnor

November 17th, 2011, 3:01 pm #12

If Jasper wants to teach the hostile views against the church of Christ he should post it on the GCM forum. They will be happy to permit anyone with an assault permit.

We don't promote false teachings nor anti-church attacks. Is that simple? If Jasper wants to post something he should take any of the charges against the church of Christ and back it up with Scripture or a census of churches of Christ.

Hopefully he will use his name and affiliation. Got it?
Ken, censorship is censorship. It makes no difference if it is at GCM or CM. I don't know what Jasper had to say. You used the situation to beat your chest. That's all I have to say about it. Have a nice day.
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

November 17th, 2011, 7:04 pm #13

Here is what the Grace Centered Article teaches against those who will not impose musical instruments, defend against those who seek to impose them with force and do not defend, protect or promote any institute which replaces the Word of Christ with wimpy songs, instruments and sermons.

We begin our model by defining a Zealot by calling bible things by bible names. While there are extremist they probably nest on both sides. There are probably left zealots as well as right zealots

To Joe Beam, those on the left are inclusive, progressive and innovative and undoubtedly, "honest, brave, pure and true." However, those to the right are self-satisfied and shelter all of the zealots. Judas was prophesied to be and marked by Jesus as the Devil's attack agent marked by his bag--for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments, and the SOP as the PSALLO concept which caused the Devil to enter into him.

Zealot

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... alot#s_top

"member of a Jewish sect noted for its uncompromising opposition to pagan Rome and the polytheism (trinitarianism is polytheism) it professed. The Zealots were an aggressive political party whose concern for the national and religious life of the Jewish people led them to despise even Jews who sought peace and conciliation with the Roman authorities. A census of Galilee ordered by Rome in AD 6 spurred the Zealots to rally the populace to noncompliance on the grounds that agreement was an implicit acknowledgment by Jews of the right of pagans to rule their nation.

Rubel Shelly notes that:

"Much less do they care to know about our fratricidal wars over the authority of elders, instrumental music in worship, whether to be having unity forums like this, or versions of the Bible" Unity Forum at ACU

From this it is logical to believe that among some, these Zealots range all the way to the fratricidal side. This makes them extremists, I suppose.

But, on the other hand, are right wingers really Judases carrying around their dagger to stab you in the grand meetings? All of the evidence suggest that the Ahithopels and Judases are the musical people:

"Extremists among the Zealots turned to terrorism and assassination and became known as Sicarii (Greek sikarioi, "dagger men"). They frequented public places with hidden daggers to strike down persons friendly to Rome. In the first revolt against Rome (ad 66-70) the Zealots played a leading role, and at Masada in 73 they committed suicide rather than surrender the fortress, but they were still a force to be reckoned with in the first part of the following century. A few scholars see a possible relationship between the Zealots and the Jewish religious community mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls."

Judas was such an extremist: Judas Sicarri.




"For centuries, baffled by Greek appellation, biblical commentators believed 'Judas Iscariot' to denote 'Judas of Kerioth'. But as the late Professor S. G. F. Brandon of Manchester University has convincingly argued, 'Judas Iscariot' now seems more likely to be a corruption of 'Judas the Sicarius' - or Zealot." - Baigent, Leigh & Lincoln, The Messianic Legacy

Therefore, to call conservatives Zealots when it is the liberals trying to radicalize the church with music is to implicate them in "fratricide" or murder of brothers as Rubel Shelly implicates the non-instrumental people with fire-bombers.

Flavius Josephus The Jewish War 2.254 (Whiston) identifies the Zealots as robbers. However, it seems that the musical faction arranges a "hostile takeover" of traditional churches and at times resorts to dishonesty and force:

"When the country was purged of these, there sprang up another sort of robbers in Jerusalem, which were called Sicarii, who slew men in the day time, and in the midst of the city; this they did chiefly at the festivals<b>, when they mingled themselves among the multitude, and concealed daggers under their garments, with which they stabbed those that were their enemies; <b>"and when any fell down dead, the murderers became a part of those that had indignation against them; (The Guilt Clause)

"by which means they appeared persons of such reputation, that they could by no means be discovered.
</b></b>


During the formation of the American Restoration Movement,

"It is not uncommon to give the blow and raise the cry." Barton W. Stone

This means that it is dishonest, Zealot-like but common to "sow discord among the bretheren" over issues such as baptism and instrumental music and having driven the daggar in to the soft belly to accuse the dying victim of suicide.

It is interesting that Judas carried the bag which is defined as for "carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." That was because it was prophesied that Judas would try to triumph over Jesus where triumph over involved trying to get Jesus to lament and dance while the clergy piped. Literally it meant to blow on trumpets and "make a joyful noise." Such activity was a victory parade.

The word SOP has the same root meaning as PSALLO.

Grace Centered Magazine is under moral obligation to find any conservative church of Christ which ever conspired to deceive the youth of a musical group as Rick Atchley confesses--and we knew it and said it.

It appears to Fred upon reading Ken's perpetual edgy posts that November 16 was not a good day for him. Fred hopes that today Ken is not so irritable and will post something today without the overtones and undertones.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 18th, 2011, 2:29 am #14

This is not an anti-Church of Christ website. It is a site, at least this forum, for discussion of issues affecting Churches of Christ. I believe that Ken was right to remove an anti-Church of Christ article from a poster, that to my knowledge, has never posted on this site before. Just my thoughts.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Tom, thanks for the clarification. If this website is anti "something," it will have to be anti-change agents and anti-progressivism or anti-liberalism in the church.

It's so funny when liberal contributors (I mean "posters" -- not "financiers") like Dave Fields claim that they are conservative and CM is liberal.

This website is for the truth and for the church. It wants the church to maintain its teachings based on Scripture and not change them as the liberals do.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 18th, 2011, 2:51 am #15

It appears to Fred upon reading Ken's perpetual edgy posts that November 16 was not a good day for him. Fred hopes that today Ken is not so irritable and will post something today without the overtones and undertones.
Fred: The SOP which caused the Devil to enter into Judas Sicarry has the same root meaning as PSALLO: intending to "grind you into a find powder" to do thingies to you called bowing to Baal. It is used only once and was prophesied in Psalm 41.

The BAG is used only once: it was not a purse. Judas had the bag because he was a thief. The Bag is pictured on greek vases and used in Greek Text meaning "for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." That was outlawed in Numbers 10 for the Qahal or Church of Christ.

The PERSONA of men blowing flutes or playing and singing has NEVER changed. It is one of the ABSOLUTE marks in recorded history. Lucifer is called by Christ "the singing and harp playing prostitute."

Back to GraceLand:




Tha was the SECRET AGENDA at Donnie's church but it surfaced before they had all of their pieces in place. The Pattern of the Purpose Driven Cult is to BUILD or ADD, get all of your finances in order and then say

"WE GONNA DO INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC. gonna do both/and

"but you promised that would NEVER happen on Sunday.

Zealot response: "but THAT was THEN and THIS is NOW.


Now, means that we had a decade to BOIL YOU FROGS and sorcerize your children at Winterfest and other venues. Now, please don't question the leadership.

If and when they lie about all of the clear warnings against anything that disrupts the teaching of the WORD (only) of CHRIST (onl) as proven by the CONTEXT then you know that they will not stop at ANYTHING to volf away the kingdom of God at that place. The sermons and songs PROVE that, as in Amos, Christ has been there, taken the lambs and WILL NOT PASS BY THERE AGAIN. Terminal.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 18th, 2011, 4:26 am #16

Prince the Piper, Phaedrus

A little, friv'lous, abject mind,
Pleased with the rabble, puff'd with wind,
When once, as fast as pride presumes,
Itself with vanity it plumes,
Is by fond lightness brought with ease
To any ridicule you please.
One Prince, a piper to the play,
Was rather noted in his way,
As call'd upon to show his art,
Whene'er Bathyllus did his part,
He being at a certain fair,
(I do not well remember where,)
While they pull'd down the booth in haste,
Not taking heed, his leg displaced,
He from the scaffold fell so hard-
(Would he his pipes had rather marr'd!
Though they, poor fellow! were to him
As dear almost as life and limb).
Borne by the kind officious crowd,
Home he's conducted, groaning loud.
Some months elapsed before he found
Himself recover'd of his wound:
Meantime, according to their way,
The droll frequenters of the play
Had a great miss of him, whose touch
The dancers' spirits raised so much.
A certain man of high renown
Was just preparing for the town
Some games the mob to entertain,
When Prince began to walk again;
Whom, what with bribes and pray'rs, his grace?
Prevail'd upon to show his face
In this performance, by all means-
And while he waits behind the scenes,
A rumour through the house is spread,
By certain, that "the piper's dead."
Others cried out, "The man is here,
And will immediately appear."
The curtain draws, the lightnings flash,
The gods speak out their usual trash.
An ode, not to the Piper known,
Was to the chorus leader shown,
Which he was order'd to repeat,
And which was closed with this conceit--
"Receive with joy, O loyal Rome,
Thy Prince just rescued from his tomb."
They all at once stand up and clap,
At which my most facetious chap
Kisses his hand, and scrapes and bows
To his good patrons in the house.
First the equestrian order smoke
The fool's mistake, and high in joke,
Command the song to be encored;
Which ended, flat upon the board
The Piper falls, the knights acclaim;
The people think that Prince's aim
Is for a crown of bays at least.
Now all the seats perceived the jest,
And with his bandage white as snow,
White frock, white pumps, a perfect beauty
Proud of the feats he had achieved,
And these high honours he received,
With one unanimous huzza,
Poor Prince was kick'd out of the play.
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Dave
Dave

November 18th, 2011, 8:55 pm #17

Just curious what some of you think about this article:

It talks about how "Christian" liberals talk a good game with acceptance and grace but when it comes to someone more conservative than them they name call, insult and question their salvation. Things they would call judgmental.

Kind of suprised me it was on Grace Centered.
Tom Brite,
Brother, I might have to disagree with you about CM not being anti church of Christ.
The birth of this site was ONLY for being anti church of Christ. Isn't Madison church of Christ a church of Christ? If this site condemns one then it condemns all.

Donnie will counter with this site being against the elders that made changes at Madison. Regardless, if this site attacks elders then it attacks the church. This site, still to this day, can't get over what was done in 2001. Tom, is it good for a few unhappy dissenters to bring the church's problems here for the whole world to see? No!
This site is a cancer....nothing more.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 18th, 2011, 10:01 pm #18

Just curious what some of you think about this article:

It talks about how "Christian" liberals talk a good game with acceptance and grace but when it comes to someone more conservative than them they name call, insult and question their salvation. Things they would call judgmental.

Kind of suprised me it was on Grace Centered.
The Spirit of Christ defined the Church of Christ as the Kingdom of God in perfect inclusive and exclusive detail. The preaching class have no background in the story line and the Prophets because the once-Christian colleges have no knowledge or interest in the PROPHETS as the ANTITHESIS of the Civil-Military-Clergy national system abandoned to perform the NATIONAL worship of the starry hostt.

Those who promote instrumenta and badmouth the CENI principle do not have a remote clue about the meaning of the ekklesia-synagogue nor about what disciples of Christ are commanded to do when they assemble at a church (ekklesia-synagogue) of Christ. "Fellowship between a school of true science and the school of The Flat Earth Society" would appear to be evidence of an insane.

Christ in Jeremiah etal (missed that getting your Phd, huh) always define the TWO PATHS all people tending to flock follow:

First, the natural people use their own imagination and because of a sense of utter lostness work REALLY hard at religious observations including music to Appease the gods and try to earn the gods (goddesses) approval.

Second, those OF FAITH and OF TRUTH (the masculine-patriarchal) are commanded to teach the Word (only) of God (only) as it has been taught. They impose no LEGALISM such as performance singing, playing instruments, slick rhetoric or drama because they REST securely in God's grace. No, simple simon NOT using musical instruments as machines as props is NOT LEGALISM. A legalists builds a whole scheme (scam) of theology even when they know that it will destroy the REST of those who know Whom they have believ-ed."


Whatever you are doing based on your own imagination or to GROW BIG:


If we let Christ do His CENI He will be very carful to take you OUT of the massed multitudes to accept the gospel of "come to Me all ye that labor and heavy laden (music) and I will give you REST. Rest means rest FROM whatever comes out people's simple mind.


Last edited by Ken.Sublett on November 19th, 2011, 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 20th, 2011, 12:06 am #19

Tom Brite,
Brother, I might have to disagree with you about CM not being anti church of Christ.
The birth of this site was ONLY for being anti church of Christ. Isn't Madison church of Christ a church of Christ? If this site condemns one then it condemns all.

Donnie will counter with this site being against the elders that made changes at Madison. Regardless, if this site attacks elders then it attacks the church. This site, still to this day, can't get over what was done in 2001. Tom, is it good for a few unhappy dissenters to bring the church's problems here for the whole world to see? No!
This site is a cancer....nothing more.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Virtually all congregations of the church of Christ do not allow inanimate and lifeless musical devices in their assemblies: [/color]
1. Dave and the change agents are anti-church of Christ because they teach that musical instruments enhance "worship" and are God-authorized because the Scripture doesn't say "not to."

2. On the other hand, this website believes and teaches what the church of Christ believes and what the Scripture teaches regarding the purpose of the assembly--to "let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; to teach and admonish one another: which musical instruments are incapable of doing.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Virtually all congregations of the church of Christ follow the New Testament pattern for the church; God's plan of salvation including the design and purpose of baptism; and God's directives for Christian living:[/color]
1. Dave and the change agents are anti-church of Christ because, unbeknownst to them, they have replaced, removed or modified: God's pattern for the church; God's plan of redemption; God's directives for NT Christians.

2. On the other hand, this website agrees with the church of Christ regarding the pattern for the church, man's conversion, and God's instructions and principles set forth in the New Testament.

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Tom Brite
Tom Brite

November 20th, 2011, 4:14 pm #20

Tom Brite,
Brother, I might have to disagree with you about CM not being anti church of Christ.
The birth of this site was ONLY for being anti church of Christ. Isn't Madison church of Christ a church of Christ? If this site condemns one then it condemns all.

Donnie will counter with this site being against the elders that made changes at Madison. Regardless, if this site attacks elders then it attacks the church. This site, still to this day, can't get over what was done in 2001. Tom, is it good for a few unhappy dissenters to bring the church's problems here for the whole world to see? No!
This site is a cancer....nothing more.
Bro. Dave, thanks for your note on my thoughts. I guess we do disagree (and that is ok) on this site being anti-Church of Christ. I view it as being pro-1950's Church of Christ. This site represents a disagreement among family members (at least on the "Madison" thread) and should be contained to discussions among CofC members. (The "More Churches" thread certainly has allowed other denominations.) This past week, I was in Dallas and made the drive back and forth from San Antonio. I have been making this drive since I was a child. Over the years, I have watched several Church of Christ congregations along the way and in Dallas itself. From my observations, over the past 10 years, there have been at least 3 "sound" congregations (meaning adhering to the 1950's way of doing things) that have shut their doors. Other congregations which are more open to change are growing and expanding. It is the normal growing pangs of any religious group. Time will take care of itself and we will still be alright. Let us have our discussions as family members and move on to better things.
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