Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

August 4th, 2013, 6:18 am #1

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There are almost a hundred references to "the spirit OF..." throughout the Bible. Here's the list from another thread:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF our God (I Cor. 6:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord God (Isa. 61:1)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you (Rom. 8:11; I Cor. 2:10; I John 4:13)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS holy Spirit (Isa. 63:10,11; I Thess. 4:8)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him that raised up Jesus (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit which is OF God (I Cor. 2:12) </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The above references clearly indicate to me, as one theologian says, that the Holy Spirit is "not an independent entity alongside God, but the evidence of God's active presence in the world." We've dealt very extensively with the significance of the preposition "OF" to indicate ownership or belongingness or possession. [/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There was no debate in O.T. times about the Trinity. Period.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There was no debate among the 1st century Christians about the Trinity -- but since the Trinity Creed was invented, there has been more debate.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Jews don't capitalize "holy spirit" or "spirit" -- it does not refer to a person.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Hebrew and Greek languages did not have upper and lower case when the earliest biblical manuscripts were written.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Capitalization is merely interpretation of Trinity-influenced translators.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Pronoun gender (he or it) in Greek is irrelevant -- strictly a "theological" decision.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The New Testament NEVER identifies "the Holy Spirit" as God.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Spirit of God is to God what the spirit of man is to man.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"'Spirit of God' in Judaism denoted the power of God."[/color]</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The New Testament speaks of the GODHEAD (not Trinity) in the following manner (cf. Colossians 2:1-9): [/color]
  • [2] That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
    </li>
  • [3] In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
    </li>
  • [6] As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
    </li>
  • [7] Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    </li>
  • [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    </li>
  • [9] For in him [the Lord Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of THE GODHEAD bodily.</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Now, Paul's and other writers' salutations in the following epistles:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]ROMANS------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:7)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I CORINTHIANS-----: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II CORINTHIANS----: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort, (1:2,3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]GALATIANS---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) ... unto the churches of Galatia: Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, (1:1-3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]EPHESIANS---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]PHILIPPIANS-------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]COLOSSIANS--------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1:2,3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I THESSALONIANS---: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II THESSALONIANS--: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I TIMOTHY---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II TIMOTHY--------: [/color]
    <blockquote>To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]TITUS-------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (1:4)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]PHILEMON----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]HEBREWS-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (1:5)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]JAMES-------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I PETER-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II PETER----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I JOHN------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>... and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II JOHN-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]JUDE--------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Paul and the other apostles/writers do not mention "the Holy Spirit." This absence suggests that Paul and the others did not regard the Holy Spirit as a person.[/color]
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Bill
Bill

August 4th, 2013, 12:24 pm #2

As I recall, these same arguments (or variations thereof) were exhaustively covered in the thread "The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit." There, as here, the preposition "OF" was the centerpiece to indicate that the Holy Spirit was not a separate "person." I'm wondering why there's a necessity to create "new" threads that just keep duplicating topics with slight variations. In another thread, I believe another poster made a similar observation earlier.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 4th, 2013, 4:00 pm #3

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There are almost a hundred references to "the spirit OF..." throughout the Bible. Here's the list from another thread:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF our God (I Cor. 6:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord God (Isa. 61:1)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you (Rom. 8:11; I Cor. 2:10; I John 4:13)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS holy Spirit (Isa. 63:10,11; I Thess. 4:8)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him that raised up Jesus (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit which is OF God (I Cor. 2:12) </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The above references clearly indicate to me, as one theologian says, that the Holy Spirit is "not an independent entity alongside God, but the evidence of God's active presence in the world." We've dealt very extensively with the significance of the preposition "OF" to indicate ownership or belongingness or possession. [/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There was no debate in O.T. times about the Trinity. Period.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There was no debate among the 1st century Christians about the Trinity -- but since the Trinity Creed was invented, there has been more debate.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Jews don't capitalize "holy spirit" or "spirit" -- it does not refer to a person.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Hebrew and Greek languages did not have upper and lower case when the earliest biblical manuscripts were written.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Capitalization is merely interpretation of Trinity-influenced translators.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Pronoun gender (he or it) in Greek is irrelevant -- strictly a "theological" decision.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The New Testament NEVER identifies "the Holy Spirit" as God.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Spirit of God is to God what the spirit of man is to man.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"'Spirit of God' in Judaism denoted the power of God."[/color]</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The New Testament speaks of the GODHEAD (not Trinity) in the following manner (cf. Colossians 2:1-9): [/color]
  • [2] That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
    </li>
  • [3] In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
    </li>
  • [6] As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
    </li>
  • [7] Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    </li>
  • [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    </li>
  • [9] For in him [the Lord Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of THE GODHEAD bodily.</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Now, Paul's and other writers' salutations in the following epistles:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]ROMANS------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:7)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I CORINTHIANS-----: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II CORINTHIANS----: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort, (1:2,3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]GALATIANS---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) ... unto the churches of Galatia: Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, (1:1-3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]EPHESIANS---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]PHILIPPIANS-------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]COLOSSIANS--------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1:2,3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I THESSALONIANS---: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II THESSALONIANS--: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I TIMOTHY---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II TIMOTHY--------: [/color]
    <blockquote>To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]TITUS-------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (1:4)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]PHILEMON----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]HEBREWS-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (1:5)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]JAMES-------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I PETER-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II PETER----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I JOHN------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>... and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II JOHN-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]JUDE--------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Paul and the other apostles/writers do not mention "the Holy Spirit." This absence suggests that Paul and the others did not regard the Holy Spirit as a person.[/color]
Short enough summary that there is no excuse for people thinking they have a post-Christ "spirit" person telling them to sow discord.

The terrorizing problem is that since preaching "sees godliness as a means of financial gain" and "corrupting the Word" meaning "selling learning at retail" which also means "adultery" you can get ready with a stack of sermon outlines without engaging THEIR spirit.

That means that their HERMENEUTIC (John Mark Hicks says I don't understand) is to NEVER read or preach whole thought patterns. All sermons and papers you can find just collect passages with "spirit" in them.

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,
.....even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
.....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not
.....that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:

Once the eye-- and ear-- witness accounts of the Apostles were delivered, showing the Prophets made certain by Jesus the Christ, anyone who violated the direct command to PREACH the Word (only) by READING the Word for Comfort (the Paraklete's instrumental means) and Doctrine, is by definition an ANTI-Christ believing that THEIR songs and sermons are Post-Jesus and therefore superior. Why else would they strip sermons of everything but their opinions of what Jesus said?

Jesus was MADE TO BE the Messiah: Messiah was NOT supernatural military leader.
The early Gnostics said that Jesus would not be a mortal man: That denies God's power to rule through a man to defeat Satan.
Messiah was to be of the SEED of Abraham: faithful Jews waited for Shiloh to come.
God MADE JESUS TO BE both Lord and Christ:

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
that God hath made
.....that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
.....both Lord and Christ.


Especially the LU neo-trinity says that Jesus WAS a second member of the "god family." That is why they lust to become "Families OF God" in the post-Shelly era. And the Spirit (mind, mental disposition) OF Christ is a SEPARATED Holy Spirit "people." So to CONFIRM the branding of ANTICHRIST.

2John 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world,
.....who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
.....This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
.....and this is that spirit OF antichrist,
.....whereof ye have heard that it should come;
.....and even now already is it in the world.

So, is the spirit OF Antichrist another "people"?


</font>
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on August 4th, 2013, 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

August 4th, 2013, 10:30 pm #4

As I recall, these same arguments (or variations thereof) were exhaustively covered in the thread "The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit." There, as here, the preposition "OF" was the centerpiece to indicate that the Holy Spirit was not a separate "person." I'm wondering why there's a necessity to create "new" threads that just keep duplicating topics with slight variations. In another thread, I believe another poster made a similar observation earlier.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Your recollection is noteworthy. But let's give others credit also -- I think I recall as well as you do.

[/color]<ol>[*][color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Yes, I brought up "the Spirit of" again because of the significance of the preposition "of" in the expression. I have asked you, as a grammar expert, to help explain that part of speech to clearly show us the relationship between: (1) the part and (2) the whole. (For example: "Donnie is a person; the nose of Donnie is not a person.") Instead, you've ignored it. Now, as usual, you're complaining about it??????

[/color]</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The second section of this thread deals with other grammatical issues: pronouns, capitalization, as well as an excellent analogy:

[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"The Spirit of God is to God
-------------- what --------------------
the spirit of man is to man."[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The third section shows the contrast between:

[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The scriptural Godhead
---------------- vs. -----------------
The invented Trinity[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I listed 20 New Testament books where each of the personal salutations of Paul and the other apostles/writers included: (1) God the Father and (2) the Lord Jesus Christ. The Trinity's third PERSON "the Holy Spirit" is evidently absent. [/color]</li>[/list]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill, you've not addressed any of the 4 assertions. We're waiting to learn from you.[/color]
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Bill
Bill

August 5th, 2013, 12:46 am #5

Donnie, you posted all this (and more) earlier in the "Holy Spirit" thread. You keep dredging up the same topics in "new" threads. There's no need for that. Stick with one thread per original topic and run with it. Save your cyberspace for truly NEW topics. BTW, if you felt you didn't get a satisfactory response in the earlier thread, then there's certainly no reason for you to believe you're going to get any "different" response here.


=========================
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Bill,

Thanks a lot for the suggestion -- one thread, right? The problem, however, is that your response, which is totally unnecessary and whiny and is not conducive to learning, is the same every time.

But no, thanks, Bill. These threads are not designed specifically for you. They're designed for serious Bible students eager to know and learn about doctrinal differences.

In the initial post, I presented the 20 New Testament books that contained salutations that CONSISTENTLY did not include the Trinity's Third Person, "The Holy Spirit." It was always: (1) God the Father and (2) the Lord Jesus Christ.

Uh-oh, the references did not impact your preconditioned thinking.

Sorry, but this thread will continue without any further interruption.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on August 5th, 2013, 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

August 5th, 2013, 4:11 pm #6

Short enough summary that there is no excuse for people thinking they have a post-Christ "spirit" person telling them to sow discord.

The terrorizing problem is that since preaching "sees godliness as a means of financial gain" and "corrupting the Word" meaning "selling learning at retail" which also means "adultery" you can get ready with a stack of sermon outlines without engaging THEIR spirit.

That means that their HERMENEUTIC (John Mark Hicks says I don't understand) is to NEVER read or preach whole thought patterns. All sermons and papers you can find just collect passages with "spirit" in them.

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,
.....even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
.....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not
.....that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:

Once the eye-- and ear-- witness accounts of the Apostles were delivered, showing the Prophets made certain by Jesus the Christ, anyone who violated the direct command to PREACH the Word (only) by READING the Word for Comfort (the Paraklete's instrumental means) and Doctrine, is by definition an ANTI-Christ believing that THEIR songs and sermons are Post-Jesus and therefore superior. Why else would they strip sermons of everything but their opinions of what Jesus said?

Jesus was MADE TO BE the Messiah: Messiah was NOT supernatural military leader.
The early Gnostics said that Jesus would not be a mortal man: That denies God's power to rule through a man to defeat Satan.
Messiah was to be of the SEED of Abraham: faithful Jews waited for Shiloh to come.
God MADE JESUS TO BE both Lord and Christ:

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
that God hath made
.....that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
.....both Lord and Christ.


Especially the LU neo-trinity says that Jesus WAS a second member of the "god family." That is why they lust to become "Families OF God" in the post-Shelly era. And the Spirit (mind, mental disposition) OF Christ is a SEPARATED Holy Spirit "people." So to CONFIRM the branding of ANTICHRIST.

2John 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world,
.....who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
.....This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
.....and this is that spirit OF antichrist,
.....whereof ye have heard that it should come;
.....and even now already is it in the world.

So, is the spirit OF Antichrist another "people"?


</font>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Trinity Creed identifies the Third Person, the Holy Spirit, as God. It follows then that "the spirit OF Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:9) is a separate PERSON.

On that basis, the Trinity doctrine rejects manifestations of God's holy spirit at various times as: breath, wind, force, power or mind. So, its followers insist that the "spirit" is a "person."

Test your knowledge of the "spirit" as a person:

__________ Is the spirit of the Father a person? (Matt. 10:20)
__________ Is the spirit of Jesus Christ a person? (Phil. 1:19)
__________ Is the spirit of antichrist a person? (I John 4:3)
__________ Is the spirit of Jacob in Gen. 45:27 a person?
__________ Is the spirit of Pul king of Assyria in I Chron. 5:26 a person?
__________ Is the spirit of the Philistines in II Chron. 21:16 a person?[/color]
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Bill
Bill

August 5th, 2013, 4:43 pm #7

Donnie, you posted all this (and more) earlier in the "Holy Spirit" thread. You keep dredging up the same topics in "new" threads. There's no need for that. Stick with one thread per original topic and run with it. Save your cyberspace for truly NEW topics. BTW, if you felt you didn't get a satisfactory response in the earlier thread, then there's certainly no reason for you to believe you're going to get any "different" response here.


=========================
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Bill,

Thanks a lot for the suggestion -- one thread, right? The problem, however, is that your response, which is totally unnecessary and whiny and is not conducive to learning, is the same every time.

But no, thanks, Bill. These threads are not designed specifically for you. They're designed for serious Bible students eager to know and learn about doctrinal differences.

In the initial post, I presented the 20 New Testament books that contained salutations that CONSISTENTLY did not include the Trinity's Third Person, "The Holy Spirit." It was always: (1) God the Father and (2) the Lord Jesus Christ.

Uh-oh, the references did not impact your preconditioned thinking.

Sorry, but this thread will continue without any further interruption.[/color]
[. . .]

========================

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Please initiate a thread that will discuss your concerns, complaints or suggestions. It's been a while since you started a new thread. It may not be about a particular doctrine, but it will be published.

Now ... I believe that will relieve you of having to address the issue of why Paul and others did not include the Trinity's Third Person "Holy Spirit" in his PERSONAL salutations to Christian churches and individuals. The greetings always included: (1) God the Father and (2) the Lord Jesus Christ.

I do not recall this matter (Paul's salutations to churches and individuals devoid of the Trinity concept) being brought up before. This is new stuff, Bill.[/color]


Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on August 5th, 2013, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill
Bill

August 5th, 2013, 4:48 pm #8

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Trinity Creed identifies the Third Person, the Holy Spirit, as God. It follows then that "the spirit OF Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:9) is a separate PERSON.

On that basis, the Trinity doctrine rejects manifestations of God's holy spirit at various times as: breath, wind, force, power or mind. So, its followers insist that the "spirit" is a "person."

Test your knowledge of the "spirit" as a person:

__________ Is the spirit of the Father a person? (Matt. 10:20)
__________ Is the spirit of Jesus Christ a person? (Phil. 1:19)
__________ Is the spirit of antichrist a person? (I John 4:3)
__________ Is the spirit of Jacob in Gen. 45:27 a person?
__________ Is the spirit of Pul king of Assyria in I Chron. 5:26 a person?
__________ Is the spirit of the Philistines in II Chron. 21:16 a person?[/color]
[. . .]
[. . .]
[. . .]
[. . .]
[. . .]

=================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Ready to publish when a substantive discussion resumes.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on August 5th, 2013, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

August 8th, 2013, 3:47 pm #9

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There are almost a hundred references to "the spirit OF..." throughout the Bible. Here's the list from another thread:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF our God (I Cor. 6:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord God (Isa. 61:1)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you (Rom. 8:11; I Cor. 2:10; I John 4:13)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS holy Spirit (Isa. 63:10,11; I Thess. 4:8)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him that raised up Jesus (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit which is OF God (I Cor. 2:12) </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The above references clearly indicate to me, as one theologian says, that the Holy Spirit is "not an independent entity alongside God, but the evidence of God's active presence in the world." We've dealt very extensively with the significance of the preposition "OF" to indicate ownership or belongingness or possession. [/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There was no debate in O.T. times about the Trinity. Period.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There was no debate among the 1st century Christians about the Trinity -- but since the Trinity Creed was invented, there has been more debate.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Jews don't capitalize "holy spirit" or "spirit" -- it does not refer to a person.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Hebrew and Greek languages did not have upper and lower case when the earliest biblical manuscripts were written.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Capitalization is merely interpretation of Trinity-influenced translators.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Pronoun gender (he or it) in Greek is irrelevant -- strictly a "theological" decision.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The New Testament NEVER identifies "the Holy Spirit" as God.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Spirit of God is to God what the spirit of man is to man.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"'Spirit of God' in Judaism denoted the power of God."[/color]</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The New Testament speaks of the GODHEAD (not Trinity) in the following manner (cf. Colossians 2:1-9): [/color]
  • [2] That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
    </li>
  • [3] In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
    </li>
  • [6] As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
    </li>
  • [7] Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    </li>
  • [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    </li>
  • [9] For in him [the Lord Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of THE GODHEAD bodily.</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Now, Paul's and other writers' salutations in the following epistles:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]ROMANS------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:7)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I CORINTHIANS-----: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II CORINTHIANS----: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort, (1:2,3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]GALATIANS---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) ... unto the churches of Galatia: Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, (1:1-3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]EPHESIANS---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]PHILIPPIANS-------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]COLOSSIANS--------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1:2,3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I THESSALONIANS---: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II THESSALONIANS--: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I TIMOTHY---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II TIMOTHY--------: [/color]
    <blockquote>To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]TITUS-------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (1:4)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]PHILEMON----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]HEBREWS-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (1:5)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]JAMES-------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I PETER-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II PETER----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I JOHN------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>... and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II JOHN-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]JUDE--------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Paul and the other apostles/writers do not mention "the Holy Spirit." This absence suggests that Paul and the others did not regard the Holy Spirit as a person.[/color]
"Ready to publish when a substantive discussion resumes.


That is assuming that there was a substantive discussion in the first place.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 8th, 2013, 4:43 pm #10

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There are almost a hundred references to "the spirit OF..." throughout the Bible. Here's the list from another thread:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF our God (I Cor. 6:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord God (Isa. 61:1)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you (Rom. 8:11; I Cor. 2:10; I John 4:13)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS holy Spirit (Isa. 63:10,11; I Thess. 4:8)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him that raised up Jesus (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit which is OF God (I Cor. 2:12) </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The above references clearly indicate to me, as one theologian says, that the Holy Spirit is "not an independent entity alongside God, but the evidence of God's active presence in the world." We've dealt very extensively with the significance of the preposition "OF" to indicate ownership or belongingness or possession. [/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There was no debate in O.T. times about the Trinity. Period.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There was no debate among the 1st century Christians about the Trinity -- but since the Trinity Creed was invented, there has been more debate.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Jews don't capitalize "holy spirit" or "spirit" -- it does not refer to a person.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Hebrew and Greek languages did not have upper and lower case when the earliest biblical manuscripts were written.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Capitalization is merely interpretation of Trinity-influenced translators.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Pronoun gender (he or it) in Greek is irrelevant -- strictly a "theological" decision.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The New Testament NEVER identifies "the Holy Spirit" as God.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Spirit of God is to God what the spirit of man is to man.[/color]
    </li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"'Spirit of God' in Judaism denoted the power of God."[/color]</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The New Testament speaks of the GODHEAD (not Trinity) in the following manner (cf. Colossians 2:1-9): [/color]
  • [2] That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
    </li>
  • [3] In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
    </li>
  • [6] As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
    </li>
  • [7] Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    </li>
  • [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    </li>
  • [9] For in him [the Lord Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of THE GODHEAD bodily.</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Now, Paul's and other writers' salutations in the following epistles:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]ROMANS------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:7)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I CORINTHIANS-----: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II CORINTHIANS----: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort, (1:2,3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]GALATIANS---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) ... unto the churches of Galatia: Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, (1:1-3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]EPHESIANS---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]PHILIPPIANS-------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]COLOSSIANS--------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1:2,3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I THESSALONIANS---: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II THESSALONIANS--: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I TIMOTHY---------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II TIMOTHY--------: [/color]
    <blockquote>To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]TITUS-------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (1:4)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]PHILEMON----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]HEBREWS-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (1:5)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]JAMES-------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I PETER-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II PETER----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (1:2)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]I JOHN------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>... and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]II JOHN-----------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. (1:3)
    </blockquote></li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="2" face="courier]JUDE--------------: [/color]
    <blockquote>Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: (1:1)
    </blockquote></li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Paul and the other apostles/writers do not mention "the Holy Spirit." This absence suggests that Paul and the others did not regard the Holy Spirit as a person.[/color]
Isn't it prophetic that the MOST who are called are not the FEW who are chosen because almost without exception the clergyHOODS try to scramble the Word and make DOGMA out of it (Music is defined as dogma).

Spiritually Discerned does not mean that you have A Holy Spirit manipulating your brain cells bit it means FIGURATIVELY DISCERNED. Figurative language is better understood by people all of whom have a FIGURATIVE word for CONCEPTS.

Jesus said that Parables had been used from the foundation of the World (which may mean from the CASTING DOWN of the world then existing). This would FOOL the Scribes and Pharisees Jesus quoted Ezekiel to identify self-speakers, singers and instrument players.

Psalms 104:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
Psalms 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light AS with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens LIKE a curtain:
Psalms 104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters:
who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: SPIRIT
Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Psalms 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Psalms 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep AS with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
Psalms 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
Psalms 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
Psalms 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
Psalms 104:10 He sendeth the springs into the valleys, which run among the hills.
Psalms 104:11 They give drink to every beast of the field: the wild asses quench their thirst.

Not all donkeys know how to DRINK THE SPIRIT.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be TO HIM a Father, and he shall be TO ME a Son?
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels SPIRITS, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Hebrews 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Hebrews 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on August 8th, 2013, 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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