APOSTATE: JEFF WALLING—Should Youth Go to Winterfest? (Reviews 2013)

Paul Sain
Paul Sain

January 26th, 2004, 12:46 pm #1

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


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RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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Jim E. Waldron
Jim E. Waldron

January 27th, 2004, 12:11 pm #2

<font size=“2”>WINTERFEST CORPORATION AND JEFF WALLING</font>

The above named corporate body has its headquarters in Edmond, Oklahoma and is known as the "Winterfest Group." According to its website report (See http://www.winterfest.org) its officers are Greg Anderson of the Western Hills Church in Nashville, Dudley Chancey, Oklahoma Christian University and Johnny Markum of the College Street Church in Lebanon, Tennessee.

This para-church organization is no part of the church, but they annually feature their "Fallfest" or "Winterfest" programs to draw the youth of the church into their web of deceit. Just a few clicks of your mouse will reveal much about how this group which not only uses sectarians as a part of their program but features "contemporary Christian" performers using instrumental music with songs of praise and worship. You may listen to a block of this type music from the website. Here is a quote concerning one of the "contemporary" groups called, "Solomon's Wish" which will be on the program of Winterfest 2000 in Gatlinburg next month.

"Mike Hurst, Scott Roberts and Kevin "Toby" Tobias wrap their pop sensibilities and intricate vocals around themes such as feeling lack of direction ("Circle in the Sand") and living for Christ ("Easier Said than Done") while creating contemporary praise with songs like "Waterfall" and "God is Alive." Drawing from personal experiences, study times and often pastors sermons, all three are heavily involved in the song writing process for Solomon's Wish. Scott laughs -- "I always pay attention when someone wiser than me is talking -- there's always material!"

"With Scott on percussion as Mike and Toby complement the Solomon's Wish sound with acoustic guitar, the trio is as dynamic in live performance as their songs demand. All three have been involved in some aspect of church ministry, most specifically in youth ministry, where the threesome have felt called to work with teens. But for Solomon's Wish, performing a concert for a youth group is more than just doing their best on stage -- it is spending time with the kids before and after the show."

Jeff Walling will also be featured on the "Winterfest" 2000 at Gatlinburg in February. This brother over the last two decades has done as much as anyone to persuade the youth of the church of Christ that instrumental music in worship is "a matter of opinion...a gray area" (See Bulletin Briefs, May 1998 and Behold the Pattern, Goebel Music, 5114 Montclair, Colleyville, TX 76034, pp. 198-223). In many other ways, Walling continues to seek to change the church of our Lord into a carbon copy of protestant denominationalism. As evidence of this please note the following: In the Woodmont Hills Newsletter of September 29, 1999 (See www.woodmont.org), Rubel Shelly announced that he was going to be a "General Committee Member" on behalf of the June 2000 Billy Graham Crusade in Nashville. About one month later Walling announced (Providence Road Bulletin, Vol. XXVI, No. 21, Oct. 26, 1999) that Shelly would be their guest speaker for the Providence Road church for both services on November 7. Here is clear evidence that these two brothers are working together to restructure the church of Christ. In plain language their work with each other and the support for Billy Graham is such evidence. If not, why not?

Let me entreat in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ all elders to warn (1 Thess. 5:14) those under your care (Acts 20:28) against such programs of compromise as "Winterfest." Men who have been placed as elders over God's flock are required to stop the mouths of those "who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain" (Titus 1:11). And, if you do not think these "Fallfests" and "Winterfests" are a money making operation for those involved, you just ask the young people or their parents what the costs are to see the sideshows to the "religious" segment.

-- Jim E. Waldron
-- “Seek The Old Paths” (Vol. 11 No. 2, February 2000)


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NOTE: The “mini-calendar” of events for the MYG (Madison Youth Group) shows the “Winterfest” again is scheduled for February 20-22, 2004. [Donnie Cruz]
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Garland M. Robinson
Garland M. Robinson

January 28th, 2004, 12:41 pm #3

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


[/color]
RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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<font size=+1>WHY SOME AREA CHURCHES OF CHRIST CANNOT SUPPORT THE 1993 AREA WIDE COLISEUM MEETING IN CORINTH</font>
  • MARVIN PHILLIPS
  • TERRY RUSH
  • JEFF WALLING
  • WHITE'S FERRY ROAD SUPPORTS ERROR
  • CHUCK LUCAS AT WHITE'S FERRY ROAD
  • INTERNATIONAL CHRISTIAN MINISTRIES
  • ERROR TAUGHT IN THE PULPIT
  • SPECIAL GROUP SINGING
  • UNCERTAIN SOUNDS
  • NO ANSWERS
  • CONCLUSION
Garland M. Robinson – Editor
<font size=+1>JEFF WALLING</font>



At the 1990 Tulsa Workshop (Larry West spoke twice that year), Jeff Walling preached a lesson entitled, <font color=“blue”> That They All May Be One. </font> In this lesson he spoke of throwing a calf-rope around those in denominationalism since we are all believers, that we all may be "one" as the Lord prayed in John 17:20-21. Here is what he said:
  • <font color=“blue”>...But assume for just a minute the crazy concept that there may be some folks out in the world who honest-to-goodness love Jesus with all their heart who would want to give him anything they have in their hands, but for whatever reason, at this moment, they are not fellowshipping in a building that says "Church of Christ" on it. Now, just free your mind up for that bizarre possibility. Now, can you say with me, that we may be one? You say, "No! God forbid! It's heresy!" The first odd thing I want you to note in the text is that Jesus doesn't say, when he says the "they" the obedient might be one; he doesn't say, that "the church of Christers might be one." He doesn't say that "those that agree with Jeff Walling." Who does he ask would be united - would be one? "I pray for those who will go to church... No, No, No... I pray, verse 20, for those who will believe in me." ... Now, folks, I don't want to break anybody's back tonight as you try to bend over and go with me, but I want you to wrestle with the fact that the text says "believers." ... But I'll tell you what, in order to preach the text, we can't get into this lesson without appreciating the fact that Jesus asked that we would throw the calf-rope around all of those who just believe in Him, and pray and work for the unity of all believers.</font>
In a conversation with Jeff Walling in 1988, he was asked if he believed mechanical instrumental music was a sin and his answer was, "No." He said he couldn't say it was a sin because the Bible didn't say it. He said to say it was a sin was to go beyond scripture. He compared instrumental music to a congregation that had elders and deacons or one without elders and deacons.
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 28th, 2004, 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jon Gary Williams
Jon Gary Williams

February 1st, 2004, 7:40 am #4

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


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RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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<font size=4>Parents, Winterfest, Yes or No? </font>

<font size=3>Jon Gary Williams </font>

Parents, do you want your children exposed to this -- the 1999 "Winterfest" to be held at Gatlinburg, Tennessee, scheduled for February 19-21? The featured speaker is Jeff Walling. Some do not know what this man participates in and promotes. This past year (July 1-4, 1998) he was featured speaker at the Nashville Jubilee. At this event, outlandish and unscriptural things were practiced, all of which were done with his endorsement and encouragement. For example, there were women song leaders, a chorus which hummed during prayers and instrumental music. In his speeches he promoted the TV and radio program called "Crossview" which produces programs featuring denominational preachers. Obviously, he feels it is alright to promote denominational preachers. But we are not to bid God speed to such (see 2 John 9-11).

In his "sermons" he belittled the Lord's church, often having the audience in laughter. He was very dramatic. During one speech he stood over a pile of dirt with a shovel in his hand and then had a casket rolled onto the stage, supposedly to illustrate the death of Christ. He had a woman give a public testimony which turned out to be a sermon -- in violation of 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:12-15. He cleverly promoted the direct operation of the Holy Spirit. In a charismatic tone he spoke of the need for Christians to get "out of control." Much hand clapping was heard indicating the people approved of this kind of entertainment.

He brought a number of small children onto the stage and used them to create a deplorable emotional scene. A woman sang an Amy Grant solo and was joined by the children in a crescendo with the accompaniment of instruments. There was much swaying, clapping and waving of hands.

Walling prayed several prayers that were really little more than sermons, during which a chorus hummed to give an emotional tone -- a practice long used by denominational churches. <font color=“blue”>Parents need to know what their children can expect at "Winterfest." Things promoted by Walling is what one can expect at "Winterfest." Many do not know that "Winterfest" is not the work of a local church, but is the work of a corporation know as "The Winterfest Group" centered in Edmond, Oklahoma. These "fests" are held all over the country. Their primary aim is to make money! Sad to say, they are doing this at the expense of our children.</font>

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NOTE: According to this article, that was “Winterfest” 1999. Now, there is the “Winterfest” 2004. The “mini-calendar” of events for the MYG (Madison Youth Group) shows the “Winterfest” again is scheduled for February 20-22, 2004. [Donnie Cruz]
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Last edited by ConcernedMembers on February 1st, 2004, 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

February 2nd, 2004, 1:05 am #5

You amuse me. Their primary intent is to make money? Ha! They barely break even after expenses... You're just looking to pick a fight by using information you read probably read from some guy's website who said he heard it from a friend of his that was at Jubilee... It's just plain ridiculous. This does not elicit a response; I am merely making a statement. However, I'm sure Mr. Sublett won't hesitate to publish some hogwash about the endtime Babylonian whore somehow relating to the Winterfest group.
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Tim Archer
Tim Archer

February 2nd, 2004, 12:12 pm #6

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


[/color]
RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
<font size=5>Trinity Broadcast Network And Jeff Walling</font>
<font size=2>Tim Archer</font>
<font color=“blue”>On May 17, 2000, Jeff Walling, preacher for the Providence Road Church of Christ in Charlotte, North Carolina, appeared on the denominational program "Praise the Lord" which airs on Trinity Broadcast Network. </font> Walling was the guest of Gary Oliver of Gary Oliver Ministries in Fort Worth, Texas. Other guests included a lady "pastor," a "Reverend" Tommy Tenney, and Jentezen Franklin ("pastor" for the Church of God). Instrumental music was used during the program.

The Bible clearly warns that we are not to have fellowship with those who teach error: "Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed: For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds" (2 John 9-11). Contrary to what these verses teach, <font color=“blue”>"Pastor Walling"</font> (as he was called a number of times on the program) has demonstrated on several occasions his love for the fellowship of those who are in error.

Walling's appearance on this program should not surprise us, but it should cause us to speak out in righteous indignation because of the shame and reproach he brought on the precious body of Christ. He did this by fellowshipping those who teach and practice error and division. What is even worse is that parents and congregational leaders in the church all over the country will send their youth to hear Walling at <font color=“blue”>Winterfest</font> in Gatlinburg, Tennessee, or some other location. Church leaders, don't be surprised when later in life your young people join themselves to denominations. Don't mourn over such when it happens--<font color=“blue”>because you encouraged them to go hear such men as Jeff Walling who support denominationalism! </font> Preachers and elders who encourage their young people to go hear such false teachers will have the Lord Jesus Christ to answer to on the day of judgment (2 Cor. 5:10).

False teachers constitute a threat to the purity and unity of the Lord's church. They must be refuted and exposed--not supported and encouraged!

--P.O. Box 147, Ooltewah, TN 37363

Selected from The N.E. Tarrant
Church of Christ bulletin
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on February 2nd, 2004, 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

February 2nd, 2004, 3:39 pm #7

You amuse me. Their primary intent is to make money? Ha! They barely break even after expenses... You're just looking to pick a fight by using information you read probably read from some guy's website who said he heard it from a friend of his that was at Jubilee... It's just plain ridiculous. This does not elicit a response; I am merely making a statement. However, I'm sure Mr. Sublett won't hesitate to publish some hogwash about the endtime Babylonian whore somehow relating to the Winterfest group.
Why, then, not use some Godly people who have not been the BITTER ROOT of sowing discord and who are NOT ON THE DOLE or have something to sell. Beauty control would provide a free forum to clean the WAX off some of the faces. Keith has been the willing DRIVING AGENT to sowing discord at MADISON.

The church is filled with singing groups which could TEACH and ADMONISH without driving people into PANIC.

They all have something to TRAFFICK. Just like Jubilee which was a BOOK, CD AND BOOKING TRADE FAIR.

VOCAL BANDS and close-harmony A CAPPELLA (Ala Castrato) intends, using ORGANUM, to produce the IDENTICAL effect of musical instruments. No one knew how to SANG like that until after the invention of the organ.

CANTUS , u-s, m. [id.] , the production of melodious sound, a musical utterance or expression, EITHER with VOICE or instrument; hence, song, singing, playing, music

2. With instruments, a playing, music: in NERVORUM citharae, horribili stridebat tibia cantu,querulae

horribilis , e, adj. [horreo] , terrible, fearful, dreadful, horrible (freq. and class.).

7, magici, Haemoniis agitare cantibus umbras,

MAGICUS,superstitiones,vanitates, di magici, that were invoked by INCANTATONS (as Pluto, Hecate, Proserpine) but lingua, skilled in incantations, magicae resonant ubi Memnone chordae, mysterious,

When Paul said "don't get drunk with wine" (new wineskins?) he spoke of the same Dionysus cult which tried to get Jesus to BOW DOWN.

"From the Mari textswe know that the "muhhu-ecstatics" used MUSIC in their ritual, and there is a reference to "watered-down beer" which proves a situation in which ECSTASY was partly induced by alcohol.

It IS NOT POSSIBLE to TEACH one another with the inspired text when you are DRUNK ON WINE which ALWAYS (then and now) meant that MUSIC-INDUCED wine drinking made you full of BULL but not of the SPIRIT which is the WORDS of Christ the Spirit.

The women prophesiers of Paul's letters always, then and now, fall into a charismatic or sexual ENCHANTING MOOD when musical harmony and the VOODOO BEAT begins:

"Among the Oriental CULTS, that of Cybele strongly resembles the cult of Dionysus in this respect. Here, too, are the typically orgiastic instruments -- tambourines, cymbals, rattles, horns and flutes.

With or without instrument, these people are USED because they can induce the VOODOO CLAP into people and drive them into a form of SCHIZOPHRENIA which is a DESIRED GOAL in the Post Modern insanity.

"To their accompaniment the worshipers of Cybele,
in a state of ENTHUSIASM (enthus O mania) approaching madness, would untie, pull and SHAKE their HAIR and then lash themselves with whips. Sure! some even castrated themselves or were burned.

"Come follow me to the house of the Phrygian Cybele, to the grove of the Phrygian goddess!

"There sounds the CLANG OF CYMBALS, there ECHO the tambourines, [Sounding Brass and Tinkling Cymbals: the Wailing women were "tinkling brass" and Jesus CAST THEM OUT LIKE DUNG

..."there the Phrygian FLUTEST plays upon his deep-sounding TWISTED reed. [The JUDAS BAG carried the reeds of wind instruments]. Always pictured by homosexual musicians (straight or sober men would not).

"There the Maenads, adorned with ivy, toss their HEAD wildly. There they celebrate the holy rites to the sound of SHRILL SCREAMS. There the roving BAND pursues the GODDESS. There would we also hurry with quickening dance-step.[The Jewish Encyclopedia proves that modern "music" is shrill screaming or screeching: Cantus and Musica induces PANIC. The FEELING is PANIC to drive you TO THE BRINK and TRAFFICK the notion that it is SPIRIT]

"This rite was carried out in a fit of holy frenzy induced by the PHRYGIAN (Barbarian) manner of SINGING, as well as the rapturous music of the tambourine, the cymbal and the flute. (Quasten, p. 36).

....."At other times there was more or less complete constriction of the muscles, and the condition became almost CATALEPTIC.... Face and aspect were changed,and to all outward appearance the Ecstatic "became ANOTHER man."[Saul was PERVERTED into another man=not good]

..."In religious ecstasy, consciousness is entirely filled with the presence of God, with ideas and feelings belonging to the divine sphere. The soul is LIFTED up into the exalted region of DIVINE revelation, and the lower world with its sensations momentarily disappears.

Charismatic speakers can induce the same feeling: the ecstatic seeks to induce his state of rapture through "dramatic gestures, dance, music, alcohol, opium, hashish. Music produces endorphins or natural MORPHINE.

Judas was a SICCARI or DAGAR MAN. He was a FLUTE MAN and they were also known as Hashish men. The flute playing and singing males often performed as, and sounded like WOMEN. The male sophrano is the modern A Capella or Castrado singing. It comes as no suprise that OCU is featuring ART IN WORSHIP and dialog with the Crossroads, Boston or International Church of Christ because:

.."all agree in regarding the WOMEN as the chief founders of religion,
.......and it is the WOMEN who provoke the men to the more attentive worship of the gods, to FESTIVALS, and to supplications, and it is a rare thing for a man who lives by himself to be found addicted to these things.

That is what Amos said of the Sacred Cows of Bashan. Jesus repudiated RELIGION and came to build an EKKLESIA or "School of the Bible." When the professors go 'Post Biblical' and Post-Christendm age you know that the HOLY WHORE is in her death CLIMACTIC EXPERIENCE (Re: Carol Wimber, Vineyard, New Wineskins who PRETEND that the "spirit" they have invited in with MUSICA is a HOLY SPIRIT. But, Jesus said "My WORDS are SPIRIT and they are LIFE.")

That is why I say that WINTERFEST is still the MAD WOMEN'S MIDWINTER FESTIVAL. Or maybe they are MAD COWS.

Because people claim that the MUSICIANS "Lead them into the presence of God" we know that they have repudiated the MASCULINE Jesus identified by the Dove as the SON of a FATHER as opposed to the BABYLONIAN Daughter of a Mother Goddess, we know that NEW STYLE WORSHIP stems from the prophesied end-time HARLOT worship with MUSIC (See Rev 18:22):

...."The original word for the FAIRIES was "fay," a common euphemism for effeminate or gay. It is derived from the Latin "fata", the individual Fates of MEN personified as the supernatural power of WOMEN. "Fay" itself means both ENCHANTED and BEWITCHED. "Fay-erie" was used for both the state of enchantment and for an enchanted province. The FAIRIES, as part of the evolutionary scheme,
.....MEDIATED the realm of the "primitive" old brain to perceive the PARTICLES of nature, so to speak, and they personified it as the natural world of the FEMININE - thousands of years before neurologists began dissecting our minds.

Rubel Shelly says the OLD PARTICLES of the TEXT has been SHOT AWAY because there is now less CERTAINTY in the PHYSICAL WORLD. However, the Uncertainty Principle makes things like miracles and the virgin birth MORE REASONABLE.

"Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please them selves in the children of strangers (adulterous women). Isaiah 2:6
...Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made: Isaiah 2:8

I know that neither hairdressers NOR musicians are all homosexual. However, why present to our CHILDREN the IMAGE which has NO HISTORICAL CONTRADICTION in religious history?

Ken
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Jim E. Waldron
Jim E. Waldron

February 6th, 2004, 1:43 pm #8

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


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RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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<font size=5>THE WINTERFEST CORPORATION </font>

<font size=3>Jim E. Waldron</font>



The Winterfest Group, as they call themselves, has its headquarters at 14301 Middleberry Rd., Edmond, OK 73013. During the early winter of the new year they will sponsor two "Winterfests" -- one at Arlington, TX (January 19-21) and one at Gatlinburg, TN (February 16-18). Just a few clicks of your mouse on their website (www.winterfest.org) will enable you to see <font color=“blue”>that denominational music groups and false teachers from within the church are being used to desensitize our youth against instruments of music in Christian worship and other compromises with denominationalism. </font>

One of the groups that is featured in Arlington is called, The Phalanges. This is a percussion band that uses "junk" to pour out a religious beat. As one admirer wrote, "Their instruments and sets may be discarded junk to some but in their hands these pieces of wood, metal and plastic can sing" (Sarah Vangier, St. Louis Post Dispatch). Another quote on their internet site is from one Greg Dolezal: "...it's great to see someone taking the stage in the name of Jesus." In their "History" they write, "Our first performances were in our respective churches." Another quote, "some kids in my youth group...were totally turned on to Christianity because...they saw you play." Beloved, is this what you want your son or daughter to learn -- that it is okay to use denominational "percussion bands" to play religious music to convert young people? Convert them to what? Some will say, "Oh, it wasn't a worship service." Then what is the purpose of calling on God and the name of Jesus in such band productions? Are such just vain uses of the names of the Father and the Son? Is not such use in violation of Exodus 20:7?

Jeff Walling of the Providence Road church in Charlotte, NC is on the program at both locations. This brother has for years been trying to convince our young people that instruments in Christian worship are just "a matter of opinion...a gray area." This he did during a panel discussion at the young people's meeting at the Andover Road Church of Christ in Andover, KS in 1981 (See Bulletin Briefs, May 1998, PO Box 123, Dunlap, TN 37327). He has continued to advocate such through the years. See Goebel Music's Behold the Pattern, 5114 Montclair, Colleyville, TX. In January, 1999, brother Jon Gary Williams of LaVergne, TN (near Nashville) documented how Walling had spoken at the 1998 Jubilee and "belittled the Lord's church. Often having the audience in laughter." Williams continued, <font color=“blue”>"He had a woman give a public testimony which turned into a sermon -- in clear violation of 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:12-15. He cleverly promoted the direct operation of the Holy Spirit"</font> (See Bulletin Briefs, January 1999).

Other speakers on the Winterfest programs include Jimmy Sites (who preached for the Madison, TN church until last month), Patrick Mead, Jerome Williams and Greg Anderson, who preaches for the Western Hills Church near Nashville and is one of the officers of the Winterfest Corporation. When I wrote last January that Winterfest was a "money making operation" one of the officers asked me why I had written that. I replied, "because you charge for the sideshows" (they call them concerts). That officer replied, "we charge for everything." And they do, as I learned from their website. It costs $18 for the general registration. Thirty-two dollars pays for registration, the concerts and a T-shirt. So if 1000 attend, the corporation has $32,000 to provide for itself and costs. The guests provide their own lodging and food.

The Winterfest Group is not the church or any part of the church. It is a commercial corporation that is in business to sell compromise in the form of religion to our young people. Elders who have youth ministers who want to take their young people to such should remember that the church's overseers have the obligation to stop the mouths of those who "subvert whole households teaching things which they ought not for the sake of dishonest gain" (Titus 1:11).

P.O. Box 123
Dunlap, TN 37327
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on February 6th, 2004, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gary W. Summers
Gary W. Summers

March 10th, 2004, 2:15 pm #9

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


[/color]
RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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<font size=5>YOUTH EVENTS</font>
<font size=4>Gary W. Summers </font>

<font color=blue>Years ago youth rallies among churches of Christ were common, but over time many congregations became leery of what had once been joyous occasions because of several changes in them—particularly with the caliber of men that were often invited to speak. Although it is not true across the board, many of those men possessed much more knowledge in the field of entertainment than they did with the Scriptures. </font> One confused individual actually praised Rehoboam’s young advisors, whose errant judgment precipitated the departure of ten tribes from the nation of Israel. Although the Scriptures communicate to us some excellent examples of youth, those counselors should not be on anyone’s list.

Jeff Walling has become one of the most popular speakers across this nation, and he is once again on the program to speak at Winterfest in Gatlinburg, Tennessee. According to the tentative schedule, he will speak Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Jeff’s view of fellowship is similar to Max Lucado’s. Immediately, then we know that this program is not concerned that young people be taught the Truth.

This year, however, a person unknown to most of us is also scheduled to stand before youthful Christians on Friday and Saturday evenings at this annual event. His name is Bob Stromberg, and he is a very talented man. He studied two years with Tony Montenaro at Celebration Mime Theatre in Maine. According to a Web site: “In 1989 he began full time Christian ministry, performing his personal style of storytelling, original music and comedy around North America.” He has written two books and “continues to tour extensively as a featured entertainer and communicator.” In 1996 he and two other talented entertainers opened a show called Triple Espresso, which has been highly successful, playing around the country (see www.tripleespresso.com). Bob Stromberg is also associated with The Evangelical Covenant Church (see www.covchurch.org).

This Web site contains an article by Craig Pinley about Stromberg, and it looks as though his message to young people is excellent—as far as it goes. Below a portion of Pinley’s review:
  • How does one find abundant life in the midst of a sinful world? Stromberg offered young people three one-word nuggets to help them discover abundant life in Christ: Remember, Resist and Rejoice. Touching briefly on the stories of Old and New Testament characters, Stromberg re-minded students to remember “the Bible is the story of God’s faithfulness to his people.”
After discussing from Ephesians 6:12 that Christians must fight very real battles against sin and that Satan stands ready to devour us, he encourages young people to practice resistance. His comments on this point are interesting:
  • “Other times this resistance won’t work—that is the beginning of addictive behavior.”
  • “What enslaves you, if you are feeling this way is not the sin…? The power is in the secret…you let that secret out and that power over you starts to crumble.”
Presumably, one “lets that secret out” to a professional rather than someone who may compound the problem. A fourth r in Stromberg’s list might be repent when a person falls short.

Granted that Stromberg is vastly talented and that he may impart some important spiritual truths to young people, the question still remains, “Why was he invited to address ‘our’ young people?” Will he exhort them, at the end of his message, to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins? Could we not find a faithful brother to teach our young people on this subject?

Of course, it could be the case that “faithful” brethren might not want to speak on the same platform as Jeff Walling. It may also be that those who plan this annual event are not themselves concerned about the truth regarding salvation, which brings us back to our thesis—that many of those in charge of youth activities have no regard for the authority of the Scriptures. Too often they appeal more to the carnal side of young people than to their spiritual nature.

For example, when adults attend lectureships or workshops, they consider their time worthwhile if, when they return, they have added to their knowledge, been appropriately challenged, or have grown spiritually. What do young people talk about when they return from some of the “activities” scheduled for them? Do words like the following sound familiar? “Ooh, Mom, it was so cool, let me tell you what we did,” which is followed by a description of some inane activity, such as the youths tossing eggs to each other without trying to break them. “Oh, you should have heard the speaker talk about the time he threw up in the third grade; it was so funny!” When asked what the spiritual message was, parents are often greeted with a blank stare. “Oh, I don’t know. I can’t remember everything.”

The point is not that entertainment is wrong, but there ought to be more than a token emphasis given to spiritual matters. Young people have marvelous minds capable of learning much more than they are often given credit for (2 Tim. 3:15). When one considers all of the youth events hosted for young people all over the country, one wonders, “Why aren’t these activities producing more spiritually strong young people? Why have not more young men aspired to be song leaders, elders, or preachers? Why haven’t some of the young ladies been motivated to dress less like Britney Spears and more according to Biblical standards of modesty? Why haven’t young people (with rare exceptions) read the Bible, or even the New Testament, all the way through? At the age of twelve Jesus was confounding the doctors of the law in the temple. Although we have some young people who are video game experts, computer wizards, skateboarding or swimming champions, how many excel in Biblical knowledge? Why do parents insist that their children conquer academics or sports but are content with spiritual mediocrity?

<font color=blue>Elders and other church leaders ought to be seeking ways to develop our young people spiritually and not be content with activities, which are oftentimes not even Scriptural. Do parents know, for example, about the hand-clapping at some of the CYF meetings? No more Biblical authority exists to add the clapping of hands to the singing and making melody in the heart than to add finger-snapping, humming, foot-stomping, whistling, vocal sounds, drums, or other musical instruments (Col. 3:17). Emphasis upon the physical, emotionalism, and entertainment will not lead young people to become stronger Christians. Studying, singing, praying, and practical classes on evangelism would accomplish much more toward creating the next generation of spiritually strong young adults.</font>


*Send comments or questions concerning this article to Gary Summers. Please refer to this article as: "Whatever the article name from above is (12/14/03)."

[Emphases, dc]
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E-Mail: [url=mailto:garysummers@spiritualperspectives.org]garysummers@spiritualperspectives.org[/url]
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on March 10th, 2004, 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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D. Hershel Wilson
D. Hershel Wilson

June 22nd, 2004, 7:07 am #10

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


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RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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Source: Bible Infonet
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<font size=5>
An Open Letter to All Churches of Christ of Southern California
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I was shocked and dismayed this last week to attend a Youth Program at one of our churches - on a Sunday morning at the 9:30 a.m. assembly in the auditorium. <font color=indigo>The speaker, in his presentation, presented four tape recordings of a full orchestrated band with all instruments. I could not believe my ears; there were guitars, drums, pianos, horns and string instruments of every nature. If it is OK to play a prerecorded tape, wouldn't it be just the same to have the full band play live?</font>

When I approached the director of the program I was told that this was a class, as communion was not being served until 10:30 a.m., and I was also told that the Greek words for "music" were "not clear. " I was told by an elder of that congregation that their eldership was not aware that instrumental music would be played in the auditorium that morning.

Brethren, I have a concern that well over 250 young people were badly misled that morning. Is it right for youth ministers, guest speakers, elders or others to introduce instrumental music of this magnitude in worship services among churches of Christ? Should the other churches at least have been told that this was going to happen? I have a great concern over what impression was made on the young people attending this Youth Program. I also have a concern if an eldership is not told about something as serious as this.

Are we being stumbling blocks for our young people? Why was this done in a secretive way without the eldership being informed? Why were the visiting congregations of Southern California, who sent their young people to this program, not told that this would be done? This didn't happen by accident. "We understand your concern and we will bring it up in our evaluation meeting afterwards," is skirting the issue.

It was only a few years ago that another congregation at a Youth Program was going to take the Lord's Supper on Saturday night. What will happen next? Is this what change is all about?

Let us prayerfully consider the actions that we take that are going to impact the soul salvation of all our young Christian brothers and sisters. Let us pray that we strive to be true to God's Word. Let us strive to live in harmony and in peace, but not peace at any price. Whatever happened to, "We speak where the Bible speaks and we are silent where the Bible is silent"?

In service to Christ,

D. Hershel Wilson
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