APOSTATE: JEFF WALLING—Should Youth Go to Winterfest? (Reviews 2013)

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

March 31st, 2005, 9:55 pm #21

Some day, I just might write a book entitled, “101 Excuses for Bucking the Word of God: The Mindset of the Change Movement.” Some of those excuses would include:

“We have freedom in Christ to do as we please.”
“Our love—not our doctrinal beliefs—is our greatest witness to the world.”
“The New Testament was written by a bunch of dead people; it’s too old to be relevant today.”

Among the top 20 excuses would be, “Only the arrogant and narrow-minded think they have everything figured out.” The latter also serves as an accusation which change agents and other detractors of the traditional Church of Christ hurl against us, because we maintain a strong confidence in our salvation. And we have such a confidence for a very good, specific reason: we believe that we follow the Word of God as laid out in the New Testament. In short, we have faith that we have “everything figured out,” because we rely on the Word.

Those who scoff at the idea of having “everything figured out” either have no confidence that the Word was, is, and always will be, the one-and-only key to salvation, or they don’t really believe that the Word is a divinely inspired document, or they maintain that the Word is subject to too many different interpretations to know what is or is not the truth. According to the New Testament, Christ didn’t seem to have much trouble “interpreting” His Father’s will when He laid it all out for us. For example, according to Mark 16:16, Jesus specified that those who believe and are baptized will be saved; those who don’t believe will be damned. Pretty cut and dry. Shouldn’t be any problems with “interpretation” there: Belief and baptism are essential for salvation. Yet change agents come along and say, “No, that’s not what Jesus really means. Baptism is not essential for salvation, because Jesus omits ‘baptism’ from the second half of the verse.” They completely ignore the first half of the verse, which definitively links belief AND baptism with salvation. We’ve discussed this particular issue time and time again in other forums. This illustrates that problems with interpretation come, not from the Word itself, but from hardened minds that are unreceptive to the Word, from biased attitudes that are unwilling to take the Word exactly at face value and let it speak directly to us, and from selfish souls who lift up their own personal preferences over biblical principles.

Why continue to wander around in a fog of disbelief or rebellion? Why resent anyone who strongly believes that by trusting and obeying the Word, they have “everything all figured out”? Any person can have it “all figured out” as well, if he/she will but yield completely to Jesus and His Word in all things, letting Him take over as the Sole Authority in your life. Is it not safer to take steps now to have “everything all figured out,” before you take your last breath in life?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 11th, 2011, 9:45 pm #22

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Let's see if Jeff Walling still thinks he's got it all figured out.

There's the Walling's Winterfest 2012 coming up.

Here's a review of the original article written by Paul Sain:[/color]
[color=#FF0000" size="5" face="times] Should Youth Go to Winterfest? [/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 22nd, 2012, 6:50 am #23

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


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RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It's about this time of the year. And I think it has already started. First, I did a search online to obtain info on Fred Whaley's favorite place of worship with instrumental music, the band, the concert performers. Wow!!! I didn't realize the popularity of the events with the similar name[/color]
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Check it out at this link:
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 7th, 2012, 5:42 am #24

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred,

Did you go to Jeff Walling's 2012 Winterfest?

How much did you spend for the 3-day event?

Which activities did you enjoy the most? The speeches? Musical group performances? Devotionals? "Worship services" with Jeff Walling ... possibly with instrumental music while he was away from his non-IM home congregation?[/color]
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Dave
Dave

February 7th, 2012, 1:14 pm #25

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


[/color]
RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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Donnie asked; "Did you go to Jeff Walling's 2012 Winterfest?"

....and you wonder why you don't get meaningful dialogue from others......



WINTERFEST Gatlinburg February 17-19, 2012


To all who come here.....this is Donnie Cruz's CONCERNED MEMBERS site.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 7th, 2012, 9:38 pm #26

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred,

Did you go to Jeff Walling's 2012 Winterfest?

How much did you spend for the 3-day event?

Which activities did you enjoy the most? The speeches? Musical group performances? Devotionals? "Worship services" with Jeff Walling ... possibly with instrumental music while he was away from his non-IM home congregation?[/color]
Rick Atchley boasts about taking the youth to such an even so they could listen to all of the "christian" instrument music. We warned and he finally confessed "We taught them to leaven our movement."

They are totally ignorant that they have been abandoned to what God sentenced Israel after they engaged in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. This was BEYOND REDEMPTION. The other folly is that they are in the advice to Cyrus recorded in Heredotus about how to NEUTER the captured enemy. Make them into singers and instrument players and you will soon see them turned into women.

It is impossible to understand that God turned the Israelites over to worship the starry host BECAUSE of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

Christ Who made the spiritual covenant with Abraham protected the godly people FROM Richland's patternism of Babylonianism.

The Church of Christ the Rock which the musical patternists continued throughout the Old Testament.

Part of the worship of all pagan worship or sacrificial systems was using MEN to perform the roles of Women (AS in David's naked dance."

Any Bible student would be able to follow the golden thread of those OF TRUTH or OF FAITH and mark and avoid the NACCs use of infiltrating agents just by defining words. They WILL NOT do that and music in the sacrificial system intended to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter" and is defined as DEVIL worship. The way to MARK the sons of the devil is that "they speak on their own.

Here is one such WORDS not available to your preacher or his once-Christian scholarly fellow travellers.



If your preacher claims the right to mediate in song and sermon that is the patternism they are copying;

2Chr. 11:15 And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.

2 Chronicles 11.15 qui constituit sibi sacerdotes excelsorum et daemonum vitulorumque quos fecerat


The SACERDOS speaks ONLY of pagan gods such as Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon), RHEA or Zoe the mother of the gods now worshipped openly.. However, the ONLY good sense is

MOST preachers and ALL professional musicians CLAIM to mediate worship between the "audience"and God. In this they blaspheme:

1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Daimonios possessed by a "god": II from Hdt. and Pi. downwds. (Trag. in lyr.), heaven-sent, miraculous, marvellous, blax Pi.P.4.37; teras B.15.35, S.Ant.376;

Plat. Sym. 202e Well what?
As I previously suggested, between a mortal and an immortal.
And what is that, Diotima?
A great spirit, Socrates: for the whole of the spiritual is between divine and mortal.
Possessing what power? I asked.
Interpreting and transporting human things to the gods and divine things to men;
entreaties and sacrifices from below,
and ordinances and requitals from above:
being midway between, it makes each to supplement the other, so that the whole is combined in one.
Through it are conveyed all divination [mantik] and priestcraft concerning sacrifice and ritual

Daimones and to daimonion represent the mysterious agencies and influences by which the gods communicate with mortals.


All of the Bible and recorded history says that when you rise up (AGAINST GOD) in rhetoric or musical idolatry you have blasphemed the Spirit of Christ in the prophets and the historic church in the wilderness.


Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on February 15th, 2013, 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

February 7th, 2012, 11:07 pm #27

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


[/color]
RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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Acts 13
22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.
23 From this mans descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised.

1 Chronicles 29
26 David son of Jesse was king over all Israel. 27 He ruled over Israel forty yearsseven in Hebron and thirty-three in Jerusalem. 28 He died at a good old age, having enjoyed long life, wealth and honor. His son Solomon succeeded him as king.

1 Chronicles 1
4 David and all the Israelites marched to Jerusalem (that is, Jebus). The Jebusites who lived there 5 said to David, You will not get in here. Nevertheless, David captured the fortress of Zionwhich is the City of David.
6 David had said, Whoever leads the attack on the Jebusites will become commander-in-chief. Joab son of Zeruiah went up first, and so he received the command. 7 David then took up residence in the fortress, and so it was called the City of David. 8 He built up the city around it, from the terraces to the surrounding wall, while Joab restored the rest of the city. 9 And David became more and more powerful, because the LORD Almighty was with him.


Hey Ken, now what about that dancer?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 8th, 2012, 6:34 am #28

Donnie asked; "Did you go to Jeff Walling's 2012 Winterfest?"

....and you wonder why you don't get meaningful dialogue from others......



WINTERFEST Gatlinburg February 17-19, 2012


To all who come here.....this is Donnie Cruz's CONCERNED MEMBERS site.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

There's no question that Jeff Walling is one of the most prominent change agents in the brotherhood.

Just refer to an earlier article (by Waldron) posted above: WINTERFEST CORPORATION AND JEFF WALLING[/color]
This para-church organization is no part of the church, but they annually feature their "Fallfest" or "Winterfest" programs to draw the youth of the church into their web of deceit. Just a few clicks of your mouse will reveal much about how this group which not only uses sectarians as a part of their program but features "contemporary Christian" performers using instrumental music with songs of praise and worship.

Jeff Walling will also be featured on the "Winterfest" 2000 at Gatlinburg in February. This brother over the last two decades has done as much as anyone to persuade the youth of the church of Christ that instrumental music in worship is "a matter of opinion...a gray area" (See Bulletin Briefs, May 1998 and Behold the Pattern, Goebel Music, 5114 Montclair, Colleyville, TX 76034, pp. 198-223). In many other ways, Walling continues to seek to change the church of our Lord into a carbon copy of protestant denominationalism. As evidence of this please note the following: In the Woodmont Hills Newsletter of September 29, 1999 (See www.woodmont.org), Rubel Shelly announced that he was going to be a "General Committee Member" on behalf of the June 2000 Billy Graham Crusade in Nashville. About one month later Walling announced (Providence Road Bulletin, Vol. XXVI, No. 21, Oct. 26, 1999) that Shelly would be their guest speaker for the Providence Road church for both services on November 7. Here is clear evidence that these two brothers are working together to restructure the church of Christ. In plain language their work with each other and the support for Billy Graham is such evidence. If not, why not?
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]So, that was in 2000. Winterfest still exists. Yes, I did ask Fred. What about you, Dave. Did you go to Jeff's Winterfest?[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 8th, 2012, 9:17 pm #29

Acts 13
22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.
23 From this mans descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised.

1 Chronicles 29
26 David son of Jesse was king over all Israel. 27 He ruled over Israel forty yearsseven in Hebron and thirty-three in Jerusalem. 28 He died at a good old age, having enjoyed long life, wealth and honor. His son Solomon succeeded him as king.

1 Chronicles 1
4 David and all the Israelites marched to Jerusalem (that is, Jebus). The Jebusites who lived there 5 said to David, You will not get in here. Nevertheless, David captured the fortress of Zionwhich is the City of David.
6 David had said, Whoever leads the attack on the Jebusites will become commander-in-chief. Joab son of Zeruiah went up first, and so he received the command. 7 David then took up residence in the fortress, and so it was called the City of David. 8 He built up the city around it, from the terraces to the surrounding wall, while Joab restored the rest of the city. 9 And David became more and more powerful, because the LORD Almighty was with him.


Hey Ken, now what about that dancer?
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on February 15th, 2013, 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kameron
kameron

February 21st, 2012, 5:20 pm #30

Jeff Walling Funded by the Lilly Foundation is now at Pepperdine with the agenda as stated by Rick Atchley "to take our youth to hear great "christian bands" to TEACH OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. That would be fine but Jesus founded the movement and gave no ROLE and no DOLE for leaders into apostasy. You cannot even hallucinate any "worship" rituals in the whole Bible and up to the Reformation for singing with INSTRUMENTS to let us to Rock and Roll.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Youth ... ative.html

He went to Manhattan to continue his attack against the youth where:

Who Is Leading Worship? - The Jordan Howerton Band! The JHB is one of the most gifted, yet genuine worship bands out there. They will rock hard and develop moments that take us to the throne of God. Check out more about the JHB at jordanhowertonband.com.

Carol Wimber aka Vineyard, New Wineskins and most recorded history of music in religion (Christ said that Lucifer was the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden).

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The SPIRIT that comes as promised is the spirit of Abaddon or Apollon now unleashed from the firey pit and leader of the muses (locusts) as his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. That is the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing in their "holy" place claiming that they are God. In all pagan religions the musical prophesier as the world's oldest profession wanted to force you into a sexual-like climaxe according to Carol Wimber.

Paul wanted the women and effeminate males who permits god's WRATH or and ORGY to break out because the one-piece patter is not for "church" but for "synagogue" so that all might be saved or SAFE and "come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH."

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That means that the ROCK HARD as the universal double entendre of the Vineyard-wineskins promise to "make the spirit come."

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

"Hebrew music... was used in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of israel, reeking with perfumes, and stretched upon their couches of ivory, were wont at their banquets to accompany the song with the tinkling of the psaltery or guitar (Am. v1. 4-6), and amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing... music was the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness, and the indication of peace and prosperity." (Smith's, Music, p. 590).

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea.

And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies [wrath] of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.

Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.

"Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
.


Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

Come, Dionysus, Hero,
into the holy temple of Elis,
together with the Graces [Grace = Chara or Charis = charismatic = homosexual)
come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
Double Entendre
Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship
in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)


SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling on Instrumental Music in worship.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Background to Winterfest 2013 and all festivals "using lots of musical bands teaching your children to leave your movement.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html

Jeff Walling Mockingly:

http://www.piney.com/Walling1995.html

We like havin a map. Don't tell me to follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.


Mike Cope is calling in his Friend, Rick Atchley who turned a church of Christ into an instrumental Christian Church because Rick was "born-ed" in the Christian Church. Under the ploy of unity under the guidance of the NACC, he sowed massive disunity by twisting all of the Bible and church history. Rick speaks from the authority of "I" but does not read the PLOT of the mentions of instruments under a system of LEGALISM and slaughter.

Speaking Of Rick Atchley using GRADUALISM:

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Old.html

"You are going to find a LOT of a cappella churches that are gonna' start saying Sunday morning we are going to be a cappella, but after that, we are going to let a lot of freedom reign, which is pretty much what we do at Richland Hills.

You walk into our youth center Sunday morning or Wednesday night: and I'm telling you; Christian rock an' roll is just blasting" (p. 9).

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


David Skidmore will join the band this year. I have reviewed one of his sermons about those FAR AWAY AND THOSE NEAR. Those FAR AWAY are defined as those practicing the rhetorical, musical and theatrical efforts to SILENCE the voice of the victim.<b>

http://www.piney.com/David.Skidmore.Ephesians.2.html

Religious staff are not the key to SAVING OUR YOUTH: that would be too arrogant. The command of Jesus was to let them come to ME and REST from the outrages and LEARN OF ME. Then, let God give the increase. you probably insult most youth by making them an inferior SECT of your assembly.


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]SHOULD YOUTH GO TO WINTERFEST?[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Paul Sain[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]First, for those who may not be familiar with "Winterfest," it is an annual youth gathering in the Gatlinburg, Tennessee area which has drawn hundreds and hundreds of youth from many congregations.

Second, be assured I am NOT against youth gatherings as such. I have carried youth to, and participated in, some excellent series which have resulted in good fruit. Youth are SO special and very important. They are at a critical time in their lives. Fervently we desire to teach, edify, support, aid and guard them as they mature in Christ.

Third, I am NOT attempting to "police" the brotherhood. Within the last two weeks I have been asked in three separate conversations to help with information about this gathering, advise leaders with the facts and specifically Jeff Walling (the speaker for this year).

Fourth, personal preference, likes or dislikes of a particular event or person, etc., must not determine the right or wrong of going to such activities. We must be willing to "LET THE BIBLE ANSWER" the matter. We MUST make our decisions based on principles and commands found within the pages of inspired Scripture. God has spoken! His Word can and must direct our steps in this age. If indeed we love and are determined to obey God, then we MUST take notice of the overwhelming testimony against support of such activities.

Time and space does not allow an exhaustive study of these matters, but let's pose the following questions as very pertinent. Then we humbly request an examination of the Scriptures cited.

QUESTIONS: "Do we not need to address the special needs of our youth?" "Can't we just go and 'hear' the good and leave the 'bad' alone?" "Doesn't Jeff teach a lot of 'good' along with the questionable things?" "Even if we attend, does it mean we agree with (or support) what is taught?" "Do we have the right to 'judge' and 'label' others?" "Well, just what has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?"

Ephesians 5:11 -- "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." FACT: The apostle Paul is clearly stating the faithful follower of God CANNOT fellowship (have joint participation) with teachers of evil or darkness. FACT: Instead of fellowship, we must be willing to reprove them. (If you disagree with this, take it up with the Almighty Father who inspired the writings of Paul.)

2 John 9-11 -- "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." FACT: It is possible to be religious, a teacher of spiritual matters, a powerful and persuasive speaker, but NOT teach the doctrine of Christ. FACT: A person such as this has "transgressed" (sinned). FACT: In God's view, such teachers are engaging in "evil deeds." FACT: Faithful Christians must NOT "receive" and "bid" (support, condone, encourage) God speed to them. FACT: If we bid God speed to them, we become partaker of their evil deeds! FACT: We can bid God speed to them by financially supporting them, encouraging them by purchasing their books, tapes and supplies.

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "...there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." FACT: It is possible to trouble and "pervert" the gospel of Christ (then and now). FACT: To preach a different gospel than the gospel of Christ is to be condemned in God's sight.

Titus 1:11-13 -- "Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake....Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." FACT: False teachers destroy and subvert whole houses. FACT: The mouths of false teachers MUST be stopped if we are to follow Paul's instruction. FACT: It must be accomplished by loving, strong, faithful Christians. Otherwise, we too might be carried away (Heb. 13:9). FACT: False teachers must be rebuked sharply, to help them be "sound in the faith."

Matthew 7:15 -- "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." FACT: A religious teacher, even a brother in Christ may look like a sheep, but actually be a ravenous wolf! FACT: We must be on guard and watch (Acts 20:31). FACT: Characteristics describing false teachers should cause great concern and alarm: deceitful (Eph. 5:6); seductive (Mark 13:21-22); dogs and evil workers (Phil. 3:2); devils (1 Tim. 4:1-3); evil men (2 Tim. 3:13); hypocrites (2 Peter 2:1-3); false prophets (1 John 4:1); ungodly men (Jude 4); corrupters of the Word of God (2 Cor. 2:17); have corrupt minds (1 Tim. 6:5); creep in (2 Tim. 3:6); creep in unaware (Jude 4); unruly and vain talkers (Titus 1:10); make God's Word of none effect (Matt. 15:6); teach commandments of men (Matt. 15:9); speak perverse things (Acts 20:30); transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Cor. 11:13-15); speak lies (1 Tim. 4:2); speak words of vanity (2 Peter 2:18).


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RELATED QUESTIONS
Let us be open minded and willing to examine facts about this destiny-determining matter.

"Can we not just go and hear (receive) the good and reject anything taught that is bad (contrary to the Word)?" First, on the same basis, why would we not go to Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, or Oral Roberts gatherings (though we KNOW they fail to teach the whole truth of God).

For ones who suggest such, I ask, how much error would have to be taught to make it "wrong" to attend? A little? Half? Folks, rat poison (I am told) is 98% harmless. It's the 2% poison that can kill you. Error kills.

Further, while it might be possible for the "mature" Christian to hear and "discern" truth from error, surely we do not want to place our youth in such a treacherous position! Youth are intelligent, but dear ones, many of them are still "babes" in Christ.

"What has Jeff Walling taught that is so wrong?" Space is insufficient to give thorough details to speakers and topics. These have been examined and exposed in various books and publications. A vast amount of material has been available for some time, for any and all who seek the truth and desire to defend it.

How do we determine a teacher of TRUTH versus a teacher of ERROR? Obviously, by taking what he has stated or written (intelligent man is surely able to convey his beliefs clearly where it can be understood).

In the early 1980's (over fifteen years ago), at a youth gathering in Andover, Kansas, Walling was a guest speaker. During a panel discussion, which was being moderated by Chuck Northrop (a faithful gospel preacher) the question arose concerning the scripturalness of instrumental music in worship. Brother Northrop correctly stated such was not authorized and supported his statements with Scripture. Walling (who was not a part of the panel) came to the podium and declared that instrumental music in worship is simply "a matter of opinion...a gray area." He has continued to defend that position in the years since that time (Cf. Behold The Pattern, p.215).

About eight years ago, at the Soul Winning Workshop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Jeff taught false doctrine as he spoke on the subject "That They All May Be One." Specifically he spoke on John 17. The church of our Lord was described in denominational terms. He advocated fellowship with denominations. He taught degrees of fellowship.

In 1994, at the Pepperdine University Lectures, he spoke on "The Community Church...of Christ?" Those in attendance, taking his lesson at plain and simple value, would believe the denominational community church is designed and acceptable by Almighty God. He advocates the community church as the church of Christ in the New Testament also.

At the recent Jubilee (1998) in Nashville, the video tape of Walling's three evening speeches include MECHANICAL MUSIC, a woman giving public testimony before the whole assembly, as well as an apology to the denominational world. The lessons also reflected sarcasm and ridicule of the "old paths" and the faithful, while suggesting change and restructure. From the initial phone call" to God to his closing speech, the audience was fed a steady diet of liberalism.

Often, Walling (as well as others) makes fun and slurs others who are sincerely striving to walk in the steps of the Saviour. In his book, "Daring to Dance with God" he advocates that God is inviting us to come and dance with him...not at arms length; rather he pulls us in tight, taking us for the "dance of a lifetime...." His play on words is offensive, as he associates the holy with the profane. He talks about Christians whose "dancing shoes are too light." They need to let go and loosen up a little, he teaches. Other Christians he calls the "Gospel Gestapos" as ones ever on patrol for those who do or say things not exactly as they think it should be. I suppose anyone who dares question anyone, or who exposed another for teaching falsely would be so labeled.

It is quite revealing to note that Max Lucado is the one who wrote the foreword to this book. This is the same one who a few months ago taught his radio audience to just let God be their father, and be saved. He told his listeners who had prayed that prayer (often otherwise referred to as the "sinner's prayer") they had been saved! Walling acknowledges Lucado for his inspiration, encouragement and letting him call him friend. (Yes, it is true that most often those of like persuasion do associate.) Can you imagine the apostle Paul using a false teacher to promote some work in which he was involved, and thanking him for his encouragement and for calling him friend.

"But isn't Jeff Walling also scheduled to be the main speaker atDavid Lipscomb University soon?" Tragically, this is true! The powers that continue to chart the course for DLU seem determined to follow the movement of change and restructure. They are aware. Pleas have been made and ignored. The popular course is preferred instead of truth (doctrine).

"Should we 'judge' and 'label' one another? Are we not all guilty of sin?" Yes, we are all guilty of sin (Rom. 3:23). But this does not neutralize our obligation to defend (Phil. 1:7,17) and contend (Jude 3) and guard and warn (Acts 20:28ff). We are commanded to judge righteously (John 7:24). How can one possibly obey Romans 16:17 of marking and avoiding them which cause division due to a "contrary" doctrine, if we do not judge? What does it mean to "label" (draw attention to them) when it says "mark" in Romans 16:17? How can we obey 2 John 9-11 of not bidding God speed to a teacher of a doctrine other than of Christ, unless we "judge?" The obvious conclusion, we must judge, mark, and identify teachers of false doctrines. It will not be pleasant. It is not enjoyable. It may involve a friend or family member, but it must be done, if we are to obey our Father!

By the way, the "change agents" often charge those who are contending for the faith as being "unloving" and "brotherhood watchdogs" etc. These often declare that we are sinning when we "condemn" others. I have heard strong and vicious attacks made upon the Spiritual Sword journal or Memphis School of Preaching. Surely these inconsistent folks should be scolded themselves for "condemning" others. Are they "unloving" for charging others as being "unloving?" Are they "watchdogs" as they are "watchdogs" over others? Brethren, condemning the condemners is condemnation too!


Be Willing To At Least Answer The Following Questions?


Before you make your final decision, or put this grave issue aside, will you examine the following series of questions?

What would one have to teach to be a "false teacher?" Would accepting and embracing mechanical music in worship be enough? Would fellowshipping ones in man-made religions be sufficient? Would advocating and practicing women leading the worship assembly be adequate? Would teaching one to be saved by merely "calling God your father" be enough? (The "change agents" have done all of these and much more!)

Would it EVER be right to "mark" others as false teachers? In view of the explicit commands in the Word of God, what would it take for such to be necessary and right? Would the passive and "love everybody" brethren be willing EVER to identify and expose the false teacher?

Was the apostle Paul acting as God desired, in a Christ-like manner, setting an example for us, when he spoke of Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, Philetus as well as false teachers? He spoke by the power of Almighty God. His words are inspired. He acted righteously in these things. We should and must follow His example (1 Cor. 11:1).

We must love everyone, seek the lost with the saving message of the Saviour, but are we not also COMMANDED to fight, war, defend, contend, and stand? Are these a part of the faithful Christian life? Do we have the right to "pick and choose" what we want to do? Can we fulfill our obligation to the Saviour without a balanced, complete obedience to ALL of God's commands?

If it would be acceptable to go to and support Winterfest, would it be likewise acceptable to go to and support a Billy Graham Crusade? We could take the good and leave the bad, as some suggest. We could probably hear as much truth, as well as error, as many have done at some previous Winterfest, Jubilee, Tulsa gatherings.

THINK! Go to the past for a great lesson. In the long ago a prophet of God was charged with being the one who "troubled" Israel. He was not guilty. He was, in fact, the one who was doing what God wanted. Those who charged the prophet were actually the ones who were guilty of being the "troublers" of Israel.

Is it possible that many who are charged today with "troubling" the brotherhood, being "police" and "watchdogs" are actually the ones who are diligently seeking to obey the direct commands of their Lord? Is it possible that those who are so charging others, may actually be the ones who are "troublers" and further are they so weak and compromising that they fail to follow the instructions of God's Word?


Winterfest Is Dangerous!


We Should NOT Send Our Youth There! We must make decisions on the facts. If we don't have the facts and were to attend an event and problems arise, then the problems could then be dealt with. But when we KNOW the facts before time, we surely should avoid dangerous situations. An eldership must make decisions for their local congregation. Autonomy is God's way! Others cannot (and should not) force opinions upon them. But dear brethren, elders MUST follow the Word of Almighty God. Elders can be encouraged to follow that Word. Elders surely are open and receptive to such admonition.

Winterfest has proven itself to be a platform for those who teach a "contrary doctrine." There is no doubt concerning Jeff Walling being a "false teacher" ~ one who embraces positions (doctrines) contrary to the doctrine of Christ. He teaches some things right. But think, dear ones, is there anyone who is a religious teacher but what teaches SOME things correctly? Most teach MANY things accurately, but others through centuries of time shout "God demands complete obedience!" "God will NOT tolerate deviation!" "God won't accept error!"

Why would any eldership allow the flock (over which the Holy Ghost has made them overseers, Acts 20:28ff), to graze among the wolves? An elder who would knowingly support such an event and false teacher is accountable in eternity for souls lost. They will give account to their Commander-in-Chief for their action.

Why would any parent possibly allow their precious young ones to go among and be taught (molded, guided, instructed) by the wolves? Do you want to take the chance of your young people being led astray?

Would we allow our youth to play with poisonous snakes? Would we encourage them to drive reckless or extremely fast (or similar dangerous activities)? Foolish questions? Certainly! But we must NOT allow our young ones to fall prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jubilee, Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, Abilene Christian, etc., have been places where "change agents" (wolves in sheep's clothing) are (by their teaching) advocating a complete destruction of the unique body of Christ. They are teaching and encouraging fellowship with denominations.

Our youth are precious to us. We should value and treasure each precious opportunity to teach and influence them. Let us make certain, to the best of our ability, what they are taught is good and right. Make certain it is NOT evil and false ways.


Paul Sain
P.O. Box 329
Pulaski, TN 38478


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I, myself am a youth student who experieced this yuear's winterfest and quite enjoyed myself actually. It chaned me in way I never thouht possible.
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