Apollyon: Jim Hackney Heritage Church of Christ

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 21st, 2013, 2:41 pm #11

Here is some music to Amazing Grace. You will notice that if you had never heard the words you would get the same THRILL or "goose bump quotient." A doctor could MEASURE the endorphins or other stuff in your blood: he could inject you with another drug and the thrill would go away. That is why all musical terms and names of instrument point direcrtly to sorcery or witchcraft. God doesn't want you to ever equate that arousal in a sexual sense with worshiping HIM.


When I ran the bagpipe version my cat came running in and listened.

She also responded to the bagpipes and piano: you can lead men into certain death--suicide--against a superior army if you play bagpipes. If you sing complex harmony you can pick their pockets while telling them that GOD needs and demands your food money.


June 21st, 2013, 4:52 pm #12

Ken said "All forms of music have "entertainment-only value like drinking wine and deep sleep."

I know of no history that describes even the most backward people as pretending to TEACH the laws and values of a society by making up their own songs and singing them."

Well, there went Amazing Grace out the window. Beautiful song too.
Thanks Ken.
Ken is basically telling us that the early Christians never sang hymns to God; instead, they SPOKE them. The further implication is that, since ALL forms of music are only for purposes of entertainment and are not suitable for worship, we should throw out all our present-day hymnals that include musical scores and replace them only with hymn lyrics.

If that's the case, when did the Church go "wrong" and start singing hymns instead of speaking them? If all music is merely a form of entertainment, do we sin if we sing hymns today? Does the New Testament explicitly condemn hymn-singing? That would be the only reason to speak hymns and disallow singing them.


Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 21st, 2013, 7:15 pm #13

I have no interest in what people do during RELIGIOUS OBSERVATIONS since Jesus said that the Kingdom does not COME to these services. If they did then why tamper with the "church house" and rituals of the Jews?

http://www.piney.com/Luke.17.Kingdom.No ... ation.html

And it may not matter unless you make a pest of yourself and make an unlawful living out of claiming that you are A New Testament Church of Christ: From the wilderness onward Christ EXCLUDED vocal or instrumental rejoicing or rhetoric for the thoughtless who cared not that the purpose was to REST, READ AND REHEARSE THE WORD.

Complex harmony is a Legalistic end-run around the NO MACHINES ALLOWED.

Hymnody developed systematically, however, only after the emperor Constantine legalized Christianity (AD 313); and it flourished earliest in Syria, where the practice was possibly taken over from the singing by Gnostics and Manichaeans of hymns imitating the psalms. The Byzantine Church adopted the practice; in its liturgy, hymns maintain a much more prominent place than in the Latin liturgy; and Byzantine hymnody developed complex types such as the kanon and kontakion. Saint Ephraem--a 4th-century Mesopotamian deacon, poet, and hymnist--has been called the "father of Christian hymnody." Britannica Online

In the West, St. Hilary of Poitiers composed a book of hymn texts in about 360. Not much later St. Ambrose of Milan instituted the congregational singing of psalms and hymns,

When someone INSTITUTES something then we can say that it did NOT EXIST before it BEGAN to Exist.

partly as a counter to the hymns of the Arians, who were in doctrinal conflict with orthodox Christianity.

This Worship War developed into open violence just as lying, cheating and stealing the church house of widow so you can IMPOSE could not be more violent in a spiritual sense. They WILL hurt you.

In poetic form (iambic octosyllables in four-line stanzas), these early hymns--apparently sung to simple, possibly folk melodies [a series of single notesw]--derive from Christian Latin poetry of the period. By the late Middle Ages trained choirs had supplanted the congregation in the singing of hymns. Although new, often more ornate melodies were composed and many earlier melodies were elaborated, one syllable of text per note was usual. Some polyphonic hymn settings were used, usually in alternation with plainchants, and were particularly important in organ music.

Congregational singing in the liturgy was re-established only during the Reformation, by the Lutheran Church in Germany.

The early chorale (q.v.), or German hymn melody,
was unharmonized and sung unaccompanied,
although harmonized versions,
used by varying combinations of choir, organ, and congregation,
appeared later.

Swiss, and later, French, English, and Scottish Calvinism promoted the singing of metrical translations of the psalter austerely set for unaccompanied unison singing.

If they couldn't even sing the Psalms in UNISON before they were REwritten (radically) then we can be pretty certain that no one SANG the Psalms until they were rewritten to make singing POSSIBLE.

English and Scottish Protestantism admitted only the singing of psalms. English metrical psalms were set to tunes adapted from the French and Genevan psalters. These were fairly complex melodies written on French metres. The English psalter used only a few metres, and the custom of singing each psalm to its proper tune was soon replaced by the use of a few common tunes. The common metre 8, 6, 8, 6 (the numbers give the number of syllables in each line), a form of English ballad metre, remains the archetypal English hymn metre.

If you CANNOT sing any of the commanded Biblical text we are safe in saying that they never sang in a tuneful sense. We can be just as dogmatic as saying that they did not use big-screens to project Fanny Crosby hymns with a wavey-arm PRECENTOR conducting the vocal CHOIR. History says that the "Precentor was the first heresy largely pervading the church."

We mature males simply do not need to SING when Jesus comes to be our only MASTER TEACHER when the elders (only) teach that which HAS been taught.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on June 21st, 2013, 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.


June 21st, 2013, 7:32 pm #14

Even though it looks like systematic hymnody really began in the fourth century, I didn't catch any New Testament references that explicitly forbid or condemn hymn-singing as such. I can only conclude that such condemnation does not exist.

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 22nd, 2013, 1:33 am #15

If Jesus told me to GO and preach and make DISCIPLES by baptizing and further teaching of what HE commanded to be taught

I could go out with my musical band and SING what comes out of my own imagination.

I could tell Jesus that "you DID NOT SAY that I could perform MUSICALLY and tell them what I think You said to teach."

However, God is God and we are not: God ASSERTS and any one with enough respect to be ACCEPTED by Jesus as HIS Disciple (a disciple is a STUDENT) would not go legalistic and look for LOOPHOLES to justify SELLING the Free Water of the Word.

Another parable: the tractor breaks and my father sends me to get a 1/2 by 3 inch bolt. I return with a much more polished 1/2 by 2 inch bolt. My dad, says that a 2 inch bold will not work.

But, me, having a MD says, "Well, you did NOT tell men NOT to get a 2 inch bolt."

No, Jesus was pronounced a SON because He OBEYED what the Father told Him to do and say: if I used that anti-logical argument I would be a dishonorable son to my father.

Get the point: we would not take liberties if the worst character in the county asked us to do something. We disciple-fit do not even THINK about imposing something known to DISCORD and which DESTROYS the role of a School of Christ.

Christ in the wilderness and for ALL Holy Convocations defined the ONLY reason that He would drag people out on their REST day. No one in recorded history prior to 1815 violated that principle:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day

1Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to [public] reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Timothy 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
1Timothy 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

I wonder why no one thought about saying that READING does not say "thou shalt not sing" until about 400 years too late IN ORDER to sing (not tunefully) their OWN "better than God's Word."

"The word that is employed for this "anaginosko, anagnosis) is the technical term for the cultic reading aloud of the Old Testament in the synagogue. By applying this terminology to the reading of his own epistles he not only ascribes the same authority to the apostolic word as to the Old Testament writings...he also combines a quotation from the Old Testament with a word of Jesus and introduces the whole with the familiar formula: 'for the Scripture says.'" (Ridderbos, Hermon, Paul, P. 483 an Outline of His Theo., Eerdmans)

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on June 22nd, 2013, 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.


June 22nd, 2013, 2:03 am #16

I know of no church of Christ congregations today that only speak hymns instead of singing them. Since the New Testament does not explicitly condemn the singing of hymns, it is utter madness to believe that every church of Christ congregation today that sings hymns is "wrong" and therefore in sin.

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 22nd, 2013, 3:26 am #17

A Christian is a Disciple (only) of Christ (only) in the prophets and apostle.

A Christian would never try to judge the Word of Christ Who died to get the right to Command, Example and Inference by "what me and mine gonna go."

The Command of Christ is to "teach that which is written for our learning."

2Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

I suppose that grace COVERS denying that with a high hand and louder voice--creating Decibel Poisoning according to OSHA.

2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

WE gonna be as much LIKE the World to ATTRACT the world. That's ok because that's what everyone says is ok.

Fanny Crosby or Twila Paris did not write that.

Each person has to decide whether they have the authority and immunity to deliberately (through taught ignorance) to violate the direct commandment.

Cause we ALL gonna do it fits the pattern: Many or most are called (invited) but few are chosen

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If I died for your sins I would be upset that you choose to worship (GIVE ATTENTION TO) the human song writer and to your OWN PART and how well you do YOUR PART.

That's ok because that's what we all gonna do because that's what we gonna do.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on June 22nd, 2013, 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.


June 22nd, 2013, 3:55 am #18

Still no New Testament command that explicitly tells us that all hymns must ONLY be spoken, never sung.

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 22nd, 2013, 2:34 pm #19

SILENCE for women which forbids TEACHING beyond the command to PREACH the Word by READING the Word also applies to men.

http://www.piney.com/Gender.Inclusive.a ... hrist.html

Si_ga , means silent and not just VOCAL while being ORDERLY. Men have NO AUTHORITY to transmit to women to TEACH in the self-referenced or authentia authority form.keep silence, used by Hom. only in imper. siga, hush! be still! I 2. metaph. of things, sign d' olethros kai mega phnount' . . amathunei A.Eu.935 (anap.); surigges ou sigsin Id.Supp.181;

The command SILENCES: phn-e , (phn) Anaxarch.1: abs., cry aloud, as in joy, S.Tr.202; of a singer, aoidos . . aiola phnen Theoc.16.44:Pass., ta phnthenta sounds or words uttered, Pl.Sph. 262c, Ti.72a, cf. Longin.39.4.
4. of a musical instrument, sound, E.Or.146 (lyr.); of sounds, hdu phnein sound sweetly, Plu.2.1021b; but bront ph. it has a voice, is significant, X.Ap.12.

The command SILENCES: surigx , iggos, h, A.shepherd's pipe, Panspipe, auln suriggn t' enop Il.10.13; nomes terpomenoi surigxi 18.526; suriggn enop h.Merc.512; hupo ligurn suriggn hiesan audn Hes.Sc.278; ou molpan suriggos ekhn S.Ph.213 (lyr.); kalamin s. Ar.Fr.719; kat' agrous tois nomeusi surigx an tis ei Pl.R.399d.

Heritage Church of Christ: White Paper filled with 100 percent false teaching.

Jim Hackney keeping up with a small band of Texans IMPOSES instrumental music in HIS congregation. He says that God maybe IMPOSED this discord and violation of all recorded evidence or at least USES it as His only way to GET AT people and make them change.

Jim says that God USES ALL THINGS for good.

Paul said that God uses all things for good to those



Jim Hackney is one of the ACU band dedicated to RESTRUCTURING churches of Christ into Instrument Churches: as usual the promise is that we will still do A Cappella does not--dear fools--that we will NOT impose instruments over your head.

First what WE are going to do to YOU:

http://www.piney.com/Heritage.Church.of ... Music.html

Next we are going to lie about all of the Biblical evidence and prove that WE have the authority to BIND and lOOSE just like the olden Apostles

http://www.piney.com/Jim.Hackney.Instru ... rship.html

Like the Atchley promise that he violated, he could say THAT was THEN but THIS is NOW.

ALL of those who have stolen or tried to steal the church house of widows and honest workers have CLAIMED that a "spirit" commanded them to do what they knew would sow DISCORD and Silence the voice of the lamb. Here is a Latin SPIRITUS which proves that the only 'person' identified is Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon. The BEAST is defined as "a new style of music or drama"

Do I believe anyone cares? Nope: not my job.
A Pathologist confesses that singing came centuries too late to be Christ-ordained wants a LAW which says "thou shalt NOT sing hymns."

I would think that even a Pathologist who survived his own Autopsy would understand that words have meaning. In case you missed it Paul said

1. UNDERSTAND the Will of the Word (the Spirit John 6:63 Ephesians 5; that which is written for our LEARNING Romans 15; the WORD OF CHRIST Colossians 3)

2. then SPEAK to one another using Psalms, Hymns, Spiritual songs (the inspired TEXT: the poetic history of the FAILED Jews, Teaching Psalms). Even an ACU Phduh should grasp that SPEAK is something you usually (not always) do EXTERNALLY to TEACH and COMFORT one another.

3. then singING with makING [melody=Grace=the EFFECT ON THE HEART.] No! a Phduh from ACU does NOT understand PREPOSITIONS which means that IN the heart means IN the heart-mind-spirit. Phil 3:2 Paul DEMANDED that this be IN THE SPIRIT which is NOT IN THE FLESH as the only way to EXCLUDE the concisions and DOGS: Christ in the prophets and recorded history MARKS the aroused-elevated-performance howling (to my senses) as summer FRUITS RIPE for plucking (Amos 8-Rev 18)

4. The AUDIENCE is GOD Who looks for worship IN THE SPIRIT or MIND meaning you cannot SEDUCE Him by SELLING your body (rhetoric, singing, playing, acting). The SEVEN SPIRITS which would rest UPON Messiah as the BRANCH (Menorah) is INCLUSIVE and Christ has Isaiah 11 write that---

God does not judge by what He HEARS or SEES: what YOU see and hear is SELF worship: those who SPEAK ON their own are sons of the DEVIL says Jesus: Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites meaning speakers, singers and instrument players as the MARK of people attending for entertainment only with NO intention of obeying.

Christ's PURPOSE DRIVEN PURPOSE is edification which means EDUCATION with that which is writen.

No collected resource on any musical performance (elevated, screeching of a mouse-frightened lady) or the NAMES of musical instruments fails to identify it with SOOTHSAYING (includes sorcery MIRIAM and the LEVITES) as the only PATTERN for singing or SORCERY including ALL religious teknokrats (speakers, singers, instrument players, actors, prostitutes in all religions).

I finally grasped what Jubal, Jabal, Tubal-Cain and Naamah, clay tablets and even the most UNLEARNED ancients knew and LEFT FOR OUR LEARNING at exactly the age 67: for at least half of the people (that we EXCLUDE) the most beautiful singing groups INDUCE mind-altering DRUGS (pharmakia=sorcery clay tablets to Revelation 18) which can drive people past the THRILL and TOO FAR into a panic attack where the THUSING is understood to be a hostile attack whose only recorded author is the DEVIL. That attack and its persona drives out and excludes about HALF of the owners. You have 168 hours a week to sing, clap, play instruments and dance: Jesus simply asks "could you not watch with me for one hour?" No: to "starve the ploughing oxen and feed the lazy asses" [Calvin] we need to HIRE a mass of misfits to keep us BUSY and LOUD even for that hour.

The confessed Goal of Promise Keepers, Purpose Driven Cult and ALL of the gay troubadours who suddenly and violently turned on the Church of Christ is to drive you into DISSOCIATION so they can REBUILD you in their own image (Machiavelli and Hitler tells you how). Disciples of Christ do not need a LEGALISM which saith "thou shalt NOT be a hypocrite" or "thou shalt NOT be a sorcerer": In fact, God leaves you lots of LOOPHOLES.

Words are both INCLUSIVE and EXCLUSIVE:

<font face="arial" size="4">When the President says to move the LAUNCH button DOWN and you are so simple-minded that you don't know that DOWN excludes UP then get ready for another autopsy.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on June 22nd, 2013, 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.


June 22nd, 2013, 3:03 pm #20

The Baptists conveniently dismiss the first half of Mark 16:16, which links belief with baptism as essential for salvation, and focus on the latter half as "justification" for downplaying baptism as essential for salvation. They say that since Jesus does not mention baptism in the second half of that verse, then it isn't necessary for salvation.

Likewise, those who argue for only spoken hymns focus on the first half of Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 and conveniently dismiss the second half of those verses. While the first half says to speak in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, the second half specifies that we are to sing and make melody in our hearts to the Lord. We sing with the voice and make the melody in our hearts.

Those with an agenda will always find a way to dismiss those portions of verses that contradict their agenda.