Jay Guin of oneinjesus forum claims to be a member of the Church of Christ but he seems to have joined the Gang of 12 or so actively denouncing the Church of Christ for all of its values. He has the same circle of defenders as those who split Madison and other churches defending INSTRUMENTS while many were on the payrole of those pledged to NEVER use "machined for doing hard work" and being marked as a SISSIFIED group.
He says Psallo demands instruments: all of his friends say RIGHT ON. Ken says WRONG.
He said that the CENI was invented by the Churche of Christ: Ken says wrong.
He inverts Romans 14 to ALLOW instruments and says that we are always whining that "if you would quit playing instruments WE could have fellership." Ken says no.
Jay puts Ken on short leash: don't blame him so he directed anyone interested (two or three) to my pages so I have set up a Jay Guin index at:
Jay seems like a nice guy but those he RUNS WITH have a bad habit of lying about the Bible and inventing all of the RACA words to use against the Church of Christ who they think INVENTED "speak wehere the Bible speaks" and not making pagan music in the face of a holy God. I think he is trainable because he has not gone ballistic like some of his posters.
It will be easier to format the BIBLE and historical quotes which they say they cannot read.
We were asked to click in to a page and this was at the TOP of the page so pity those who think that I brought up the instrument thingy.
Jay Guin: Fourth, we need to spend just a moment regarding obedience. We have a tendency to insist on perfect obedience to the least important commands and to tolerate poor obedience to the most important commands.
Thus, we want to damn those who worship God with an instrument,
while we accept those who are hateful, bitter, and divisive, that is, very unloving.
I believe that is about as judgmental as one can get. Jay seems to be promoting a new Progressive Church of Christ
He confesses that they have no "leader" or "creed."
Well, PROGRESSIVE violates the direct command to be UNMOVEABLE. Progressive is what is going on at the federal level. By their very definitions of "post modern" they do not accept Scriptures and therefore have no trouble forcing them to SAY just the opposite of what the Spirit of Christ revealed.
Because those who "corrupt the Word" work all week to keep from having to teach the text and become aware of the meaning of words and practices, they can use Galatians 5 to define those who FIGHT being taken hostage to IMPOSING instruments in THEIR OWN property and church family as friends of the hateful, bitter, divisive and unloving. As ALWAYS the case when the PROGRESSIVE try to use Scripture it explodes in their hands. Look again:
Gal 5:12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Note 1: Paul wishes that the circumcisers would not stop with circumcision but go beyond it to mutilation (make themselves eunuchs) like the priests of Cybele. A severe irony and similar to the one in Philip. iii. 2, 3, where Paul calls the boasters of circumcision the Concision. Self mutilation was a recognized form of heathen worship especially in Pessinus in Galatia and therefore quite familiar to the readers. Thus by their glorying in the flesh the Galatians relapsed into their former heathenism,--Schaff and Lightfoot. The Revised Version here has, would even cut themselves off, the American Committee has, would go beyond circumcision.G.A.]
DID THE SAME PAUL WARN ABOUT:
For we are the circumcision,
which worship God IN the spirit,
and rejoice in Christ Jesus,
and have no confidence IN the flesh. Phil 3:3
The NOT musical passages Paul defines to all of the churches is to
Speak the Word of God (Scripture)
Meditate on them IN the heart (spirit)
The SPIRIT is a PLACE contrasted to the PLACE of Jerusalem or Samaria. Why should worship be IN THE SPIRIT which would define church, ekklesia or synagogue as to TEACH THE WORD as it has been taught and MEDITATE on it in the human spirit (not speak and make melody).
Why should the church be on it's guard that it does not let BODY WORSHIP break out?
Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. Phil 3:2
Dogs were the CYNICS they stamped, clapped and made noises like DOGS to attract their mates.
The Church of Christ in the wilderness is defined in the Latin as an ACADEMY which is OPPOSITE to the Academy of the CYNICS.
Rhetoricians, singers and instrument players are defined by John (Rev 18) as SORCERERS working as "lusted after fruits" for the Babylon Mother of Harlots (Rev 17)
1. John says that rhetoricians (performers), singers and instrument players are SORCERERS
2. Dogs were the castrated, musical priests of Cybele, the mother of harlots (Rev 17)
There is no evidence which does NOT mark religious musicians as effeminate or worse.
3. John says that SORCERERS and DOGS will go into the lake of fire.
4. This agrees with Isaiah 30 which says that the PURPOSE for hell was to burn God's Enemies.
The MARKS of God driving them into hell is the wind, string and percussion instruments.
These are the ones Lucifer (Zoe) brought with him/her into the garden of Eden as the singing
and harp-playing prostitute.
5. The LOCUSTS in John's letter (not to the PROGRESSIVE) were the MUSES as Apollo's (Abaddon, Apollyon) musical worship team at Delphi (Paul cast out the Pythian spirit). They were known as dirty prostitutes which fits the pattern in Revelation 17-18 as the FINAL WARNING.
5. Because the begging priest with open mouth attempts in many ways to raise our expectations. 13
Note: 13. The agurtes or begging priest generally belonged to the worship of Rhea or Cybele, the Mother [Zoe]. He is frequently depicted in a most unfavorable light. Apuleius speaks of a company of these emasculate priests in the eighth book of the Metamorphoses. They are also described in the Republic of Plato: "Agurtæ and Mantics frequent the houses of the rich and persuade them that they possess a power granted by the gods to expiate, by sacrifices and chants any unjust act that has been committed and that they induce the gods by blandishments and magic rites to help them.
They collected money in this way, and they also followed the selling of nostrums and telling of fortunes."
tumpano-tribês A. drummer, esp. used of the Galli in the worship of Cybele
THE MUSIC AT THE ARCANE RITES.
<font>inspired when they hear cymbals, drums, or some choral chant, 21 as, for example, those who are engaged in the Korybantic Rites, 22 those who are possessed at the Sabazian festival and those who are celebrating the Rites of the Divine Mother."
Because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai God turned especially the LEVI tribe over to worship the starry host: this was and is SABAZIANISM
in your local church which uses Hezekiah to COMMAND and force instruments IN and the owners OUT. The Levites were an old cult in Egypt especially connected with Moloch which continued in the wilderness and at Mount Jerusalem.
There is evidently a deeper meaning in all this than is commonly apprehended.
Note: 21. Some exhibition of this kind is described by the Apostle Paul in the first Epistle to the Corinthians. "If," says he, "the whole assembly come together to the same place and all prattle in tongues, and common men should come in, or unbelievers, will they not say that you are raving?"
Hence he counsels that only two or three should speak in turn, and one interpret; but if nobody present is capable of this, they should keep silence, and speak only to themselves and to God:
"for not of tumult is he a god, but of tranquillity." (Ovid; Fasti IV,
"The attendants beat the brass, and the hoarse-sounding hides. Cymbals they strike in place of helmets, tambourines for the shields; the pipe yielded its Phrygian notes.")
The Lifeless Instruments Paul condemns in Corinthians are the Carnal Weapons he says will NOT be effective fighting the HOSTILE POWERS. Why would you be effective using what is universally confessed to be the DEVIL'S INSTRUMENTS (in worship) in fighting the DEVIL whos "sons" Jesus called the clergy along with calling them HYPOCRITES by naming slick speakers, singers and instrument players."
ONLY the Word of Christ can be the effective WEAPON against Satan and when the WORD is replaced with the HYPOCRITIC ARTS, Christ in Isaiah 30 says this is the MARK (sight and sound) of God driving His enemies into hell.
I do CRY in the wilderness so I am not surprised that MOST people have already picked sides: several Bible passages and The Book of Enoch (and many parallel books) PROVE that once the Devil has used the YOUTH (Jubal in the old stories) to seduce you away from the Living Word down into the valley of the agricultural Cainites using mixed-sex choirs, instruments and seductive female dress you are FALLEN and you will never find your way back.
If I am wrong then, like David, I will trust that God won't punish we crazy people. If I am RIGHT then most of what you trust as "church" will be lost. Out of millions of Jews I believe the 120 were the local remnant when Jesus came in the FIRST ADVENT where the Scribes and Pharisees or hypocrites (speakers, singers and instrument player) were in charge.