Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

June 12th, 2011, 4:19 pm #11

Brother Crump,

You are beyond conservative, and definitely beyond biblical. You are dogmatic. Below are a few examples of man-made rules. Furthermore, I would surmise that your own congregation alone, not to mention any others, is not able to abide by all of your man made rules, nor should they.

It is wrong to ever acknowledge/honor someone's anniversary in an assembly, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.
It is wrong to ever acknowledge/honor someone's graduation in an assembly, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.
It is wrong to ever acknowledge/honor someone's birthday in an assembly, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.
It is wrong to ever acknowledge/honor someone's lads to leader accomplishments, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.
It is wrong to ever acknowledge/honor someone's service to the military, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.

Just from these 5 teachings alone, most of the 40,000 C of C congregations would be unacceptable to God if these teachings are/were accurate. Even the most conservative of congregations I am aware of (which are many) include these and other information in their bulletins and often share in public announcements from the pulpit.

I wonder if Brother Crump believes God's grace will cover these congregations' alleged sins/disobedience?

-Sonny
Sonny posed five "wrong" situations and declared they were man-made rules. The clear implication is that Sonny takes the opposite view and that he would substitute "RIGHT" instead as follows:

It is RIGHT to ever acknowledge/honor someone's anniversary in an assembly, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.

It is RIGHT to ever acknowledge/honor someone's graduation in an assembly, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.

It is RIGHT to ever acknowledge/honor someone's birthday in an assembly, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.

It is RIGHT to ever acknowledge/honor someone's lads to leader accomplishments, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.

It is RIGHT to ever acknowledge/honor someone's service to the military, including from the pulpit or from the bulletin.

Sonny condemned his five alleged man-made "wrong" situations as "dogmatic and unbiblical." Since Sonny implies that it is right to honor people's accomplishments in the worship assembly, then he is just as dogmatic. Is it wrong to be dogmatic? It is in Sonny's case, for he presumes to speak where the New Testament does not; hence, it is he who is unbiblical. Where does the New Testament permit us to honor our accomplishments in the worship assembly? Where does the New Testament declare that God is pleased when we use the worship assembly to honor our human accomplishments as well as Him? Christianity is based on what the New Testament SAYS, NOT on what it doesn't say. When man takes God's silence as permissive, he subscribes to the fallible premise of "God didn't say not to." We all know that nonsense just doesn't wash. Can our human accomplishments save us? Of course not, yet many people regard those accomplishments worthy of as much praise as that given to God; hence, the unbiblical desire to honor human accomplishments in the worship assembly.

The bottom line: The worship assembly is a time for honoring and praising ONLY GOD, not man. Since we have no New Testament authority to honor man's accomplishments in the worship assembly, then the wise thing to do is to hold worldly and secular honors separately from the assembly. People need to control themselves and put aside their desire for worldly accolades long enough to spend time together in the worship assembly giving God ALL the praise, honor, and glory. Don't cheat God. Ordinarily, that should be quite easy to understand, but I guess with the worldly-minded liberals and progressives, it is impossible.

BTW, since I never said anything about the "bulletin," Sonny conveniently took the opportunity once again to hop--skip--and jump...to conclusions.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 12th, 2011, 11:13 pm #12

Sonny,
Do you see what I mean? Some people don't care for meaningful dialogue.....they want to get in their jabs and feel superior in doing so.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

You should speak for yourself.

I'm not into counting words in a post, although occasionally I do. But you could dialog meaningfully if you were to actually delete your "religious" [self-righteous] expletives. But, then, in many of your posts, the number of words would amount to almost zero if those expletives were deleted.

There is still a problem.[/color]
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

June 13th, 2011, 1:10 am #13

It's virtually impossible to have a "meaningful dialogue" with someone whose replies consist of nothing but "You are cursed! You're a sinner! Repent! Repent!" over and over. I'm surprised Dave hasn't realized that by now. Frankly, I suspect he never will.
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

June 14th, 2011, 12:25 pm #14

It is obvious to Fred and the rest that the doctor does not want to have a civil and levelheaded discussion with Sonny and answer his questions and support earlier statements. Work on being levelheaded with future posters Mr. Crump. Fred and the rest will respect you.

Fred Whaley
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

June 15th, 2011, 5:05 am #15

Did Fred say something? I didn't think so. He must be mumbling again in his coma.
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Sonny
Sonny

June 16th, 2011, 8:32 pm #16

Trying to be a bridgebuilder between Brother Crump and Brother Fred could reveal in time to be a challenging endeavor.

-Sonny
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

June 17th, 2011, 1:46 pm #17

I wouldn't waste much time with Fred. He's in a "coma" most of the time. Dave is a much better candidate for your...how should I say...peacemaking "talents." Even the winking face thinks so.
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Sonny
Sonny

June 27th, 2011, 3:19 am #18

An elder at our congregation takes the Lord's Supper to an elderly shut-in member each Sunday afternoon. Friday was this lady's 98th birthday. She is the oldest member of our congregation this side of heaven. Today after services and lunch, twelve members of our congregation visited her in her home. She took communion, then we sang a few songs ("When We All Get To Heaven", etc.), followed by singing happy birthday and having her blow out ten lit candles on the cake. After eating cake with her, we had a prayer and left.

Did we "cheat" God (Brother Crump's term)? Did God exit the home during the birthday celebration and then return when we had prayer? The elder organized this event - is he a change agent?

-Sonny
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 27th, 2011, 4:07 am #19

Justin Martyr defining the Sunday assembly (no music mentioned) where the Psalms were sung in the reading sense.

After the meeting the Deacons took the Lord's Supper to the shutins.

The purpose of the assembly is to PREACH the word by READING the word for doctrinal teaching and comfort.
Most forms of music "discomfort" by producing a mind altering drug. I have modified my Jude discussing the Book of Enoch. Lucretius speaks of personal doctrine having to be forced down with music to overpower the rational or spiritual mind.

He compares that to Wormwood or Absinth which is a hallucin in Lager beer.
You just rup the patient's lips with a bit of wormwood to numb him before making him drink the whole thing.

Now, a drug was often used when you really had no cure: give strong drink to the perishing.

So false teaching or dogma asserts that the Word of God is too difficult for the laidity to consume. So, in rhetoric you use MUSIC to enhance. Now, that would be fine in our posted example if you are trying to DEFEAT the notion that the heavens were infinite.

If you ASSERT that the Spirit of Christ is incompetent and needs help from what Christ called hypocrites--rhetoricians, singers and instrument players the it is ACCEPTABLE to use music and musicians because you have gone over that edge Lynn Anderson warns about.

http://www.piney.com/MuJudeEnoch.html

These performing stars are those FOR WHOM God comes in judgment. Sorry, I cannot convince too many of that: maybe I nee me a Worship Team?
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

June 27th, 2011, 1:19 pm #20

An elder at our congregation takes the Lord's Supper to an elderly shut-in member each Sunday afternoon. Friday was this lady's 98th birthday. She is the oldest member of our congregation this side of heaven. Today after services and lunch, twelve members of our congregation visited her in her home. She took communion, then we sang a few songs ("When We All Get To Heaven", etc.), followed by singing happy birthday and having her blow out ten lit candles on the cake. After eating cake with her, we had a prayer and left.

Did we "cheat" God (Brother Crump's term)? Did God exit the home during the birthday celebration and then return when we had prayer? The elder organized this event - is he a change agent?

-Sonny
You seem to be obsessed with this birthday-and-anniversary bit. Whether the setting is the home, the middle of the street, a bus terminal, a train station, a supermarket, atop Mt. Everest, flying in a 747, deep in a mine, the Sea of Tranquility on the moon, in a "church building," etc. etc., a group of people meeting to take Communion (whether it's just one person or all), sing hymns, and offer prayer are engaging in worship. Surely you don't think that worship must only be confined within a "church building." Therefore, don't cheat God in worship by bringing in worldly matters such as singing "Happy Birthday" and blowing out candles on a cake. How long will it take before you are able to understand that?
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