Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 1st, 2012, 9:46 pm #41

I responded to Roger to show that FREQUENTLY SPEAKING the Word of God is the ANTITHESIS of pagan religions where the singing was a result of "getting drunk on wine." When the Greek Somposium needed to discuss something important the voted to send out the Flute-Girl and Harp-boy. The point was that the music induced spiritual intoxication and called for more wine. Ever hear of a guy trying to sell booze without music?

I posted the ANTITHESIS thing above and showed by the definition of Words that God HID HIMSELF from the wise and prudent.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise [sophos] and prudent [sunetos] , and hast revealed them unto babes.

The answere: is: God HIDES Himself from the:.
sophos mantis poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. en oinois, kithara [guitar, harp] , lawyers or professors

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers!
.....for ye have taken away the key of knowledge:
.....ye entered not in yourselves,
.....and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Luke 11:53 And as he said these things unto them,
.....the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently,
..... and to provoke him to speak of many things:
Luke 11:54 Laying wait for him,
.....and seeking to catch something out of his mouth,
.....that they might accuse him.

Answer: Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. The Spirit OF Christ in Ezekiel 33 named performance preachers, singers and instrument players.

The answer is: God Hides Himself from the Prudent:
[sunetos]
dusxunetou xuneton melos Id.Ph.1506 I have many swift arrows in the quiver under my arm, [85] arrows that speak to the initiated. But the masses need interpreters.

These "sending forth melodies" were LOVE ARROWS to "psallo" (grind to bits) your human heart so that bad things happened.

The answer is that the PRUDENT use hard to understand MELODIES which are eqauated to

melos kata mel limb by limb, dismember in order to CONSUME the enemy.

Nothing else in Roger's post can trump the clear meaning of Paul when he defined the assembly as TEACHING the Word where SPEAK is the opposite of mosic or poetry.

Quote
Like
Share

B
B

August 1st, 2012, 10:18 pm #42

I think it is sad that the best and most biblical post on this thread, the one by Roger, has drawn no attention or responses.
So what are you waiting for, Tom? Go ahead and respond to Roger's post if it has piqued you that much.
Quote
Share

B
B

August 1st, 2012, 10:52 pm #43

Just a few thoughts from someone who stumbled upon this site.

***BACKGROUND: I have a BA in Music Education, a minor in Bible, and over a quarter century's experience as a leader of corporate worship in churches of Christ.
To clarify, I am not an advocate for either instrumental or purely vocal music. I will keep my own councel in this matter so my comments are not misconstrued.

***TO THE READER: If you question whether Ephesians 5 prohibits instrumental music, read the entire passage in context. Verse 19 has been used for many years as a "proof text" for the exclusion of instruments in worship. If you do not know the term, it is defined as, "The practice of using quotations from a document (often, but not always, a book of the Bible) to establish a proposition. Using discrete quotations is generally seen as decontextualised." Read. Pray. Fast, if necessary. Ask God for wisdom, and He will give it to you.

***SUGGEESTION: Rather than be caught in an endless debate, I ask you to read the whole chapter in context and discern for yourself the agenda of the writer . If you don't have the chapter handy, here is a link to it http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NLT). I challenge you to review several translations if you want to test the true meaning.

Ephesians 5 (selected quotations for context)
1 Imitate God, therefore, in everything you do,
2 Live a life filled with love, following the example of Christ. He
3 Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such
4 Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokesthese are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God.
7 Dont participate in the things these people do.
8 ...So live as people of light!
11 Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness...
12 It is shameful even to talk about the things that ungodly people do in secret. 1
21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord.
23 For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church.
25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church.
28 In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies.
33 So again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Now fill in the blanks...

"15 So be careful how you _____. Dont _____ like fools, but like those who are wise. 16 Make the most of every opportunity in these evil days. 17 Dont _____ thoughtlessly, but understand what the Lord wants you to do. 18 Dont be ______________, because that will ruin your ______. Instead, be _____________________, 19 singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs __________________, and making music to the Lord _________________. 20 And ____________________________to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

***DRAWING A CONCLUSION: Ask yourself,
1. What is the overall theme of this passage?
2. What is the writer arguing for/against?
3. When reading verses 15-20, do you understand the context as inclusive of worship (at any place, at any time, personal or as a group)?
4. If so, how did you arrive at your conclusion:_________________________
5. If not, how did you arrive at your conclusion:_________________________
6. Do you believe verse 19 suggests
a. Singing only in our hearts (no vocalizing)
b. A vocal outpouring of the heart
c. An attitude of worship and thankfulness
d. A command to worship only with the heart
e. A command to worship only with the heart and voice
f. An attitude of worship that neither prohibits or suggests instruments
d. Other

***RESOURCES FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION: In regards to discerning truth and constructive dialog, which part of Galatians 5 does this site best represent:
a. love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control
b. hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy;

***ACTION: If you find yourself in a church body that is acting against your understanding of this passage, here are instructions from Matthew 18 on how to settle disputes:

"15 If your brother or sister sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

[b.] Matthew 18:15 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a
fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verses 21 and 35.
[c.] Matthew 18:15 Some manuscripts sins against you

***POST SCRIPT: There are no clear answers on how to find resolution past this instruction, however, we can be sure about this online community and what service it is providing based on 1 Corinthians 6:1-8:

"When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, ..."

I happen to be a minister, but I wonder how many unbelievers have stumbled upon this community? No matter what your direction after reading this, do not do as you have seen here. It is not in keeping with our clear instructions to keep matters of the body of Christ out of this generation's court of public opinion; the internet.

Peace

The answer is to follow the teachings of Christ and His apostles as written in the New Testament. Some of those teachings are as follows:

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (Romans 16:17 KJV).

Because change agents with their unscriptural doctrines cause a multitude of divisions in churches, we MARK THEM and encourage readers to AVOID THEM. People use the Internet all the time to spread the Gospel. What better way to issue warnings to the general public to mark and avoid the change agents than through the Internet as well?
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 2nd, 2012, 1:20 am #44

Dear Fellow Madison Church of Christ Members;

A MESSAGE FROM THE ConcernedMembers

Our Job Is Not Over!

We have a plan that covers what we will be doing in the short and long range with three different phases.......

If you think back when you first learned about the real cause of the problems in our congregation, it probably hasn't been that long ago. Oh sure there are those that have known, but the large percentage of us didn't really know until somewhat recently.

You do have to wonder if things would have been different if someone had told us a year or so ago?

You know, I think people did try in their own way, and probably in the only way they could, and maybe we thought they were a little extreme.

I remember when Bob Johnson first told me what was going on and tried to show me the evidence. As much as I trusted Bob, I found it all rather hard to believe.

It wasn't until I sat down and read the material, that I realized what he said was true!

We should not expect anyone to believe us, unless they have read the material.

We are now in a situation that is addressed in ; Ezekiel 33:1-6. We have become the "Watchman". We are aware of information that affects our fellow members spiritual life. We are under an obligation to warn them. What they do with that information is then up to them.

I think we realize that we are not going to win many battles in the future, in fact only those the Lord wants us to win.

The battle at Madison Church of Christ is not about financially overburdened realestate. It is about the souls of our fellow members.

Before we move on to other churches, or before we can be relieved of this burden of knowledge we must try to inform as many others as possible.

There are some 314,000 churches in the U.S.A. That's a lot of souls! For some of us this could be a life long job.

Before we warn other churches and their members, we have a job to finish here. We have put together a three Phase program.

PHASE I

The first phase is warning our brothers and sisters in Madison, at the Church of Christ.

There is a book ( What Happened At The Madison Church of Christ?) being printed as you read this. This book covers a lot of the information for folks that have not accessed our web site at:

The book size was necessary to communicate the amount of information we need to relay.

The book is going to be made available to every Madison Church of Christ member FREE.

The first printed editions will be available through any of the ConcernedMembers, at 15 locations in Nashville, and downloadable and printable on the web.

We are not sure how long phase I will take. At it's completion we will begin phase II.


PHASE II

For 60 years Madison Church of Christ has been a beacon of light to the world. I think it could still be a beacon. But, this time it may be a beacon of either success or failure of the "Contemporary/Community Church Movement". At this time only the Lord knows which that may be.

This phase begins with us telling the world about the troubled waters in churches across America.

We will begin in the Greater Nashville Area.

Through advertisements in newspapers, and on the web we will try to bring folks in to our dedicated web site at: http://www.ConcernedMembers.com

Here they will have the resources and information to understand and cope with the changes they may find in their church. There will be links to ConcernedMembers web sites all over the country telling their story, and their successes and failures.


PHASE III

This is the beginning of our direct mail program. We will start with all the Church of Christ congregations in Tennessee.

We want to thank all the members for their overwhelming support.
Lets get started, we have a big job.

Thanks

ConcernedMembers

========================
Posts made prior to 10-23-2002 have been archived.
<a href="http://www.concernedmembers.com/forumar ... 4a.txt">[b]
Click here to read the archive.[/b]</a>
========================
THIS WAS THE PERSONA WHICH MADE MORE THAN HALF OF THE OWNERS TO FLEE. The image marked on the minds of godly people does not need any Biblical evidence to spook them. It's in the DNA and a MARK to separate the lambs from the goats. That is not opinion.

In Ephesians 4 Paul said that Christ gave the Elders and the Pastor-Teachers commanded to teach that which had been taught. Their first task was to DISFELLOWSHIP the cunning craftsmen or Sophists which defines all of the parasites seeing godliness as a means of finacial gain--just an occupation. They USED all of the performing arts to SILENCE the voice of Christ AND steal their property under the ploy that it was for "the gods." Plutarch affirms the Bible and the Jewish Encyclopedia that the PATTERN of the musical bandits was imposed BECAUSE God had abandoned them to worship the starry host. Many historians wrote about the mess in Ephesus which Paul OUTLAWED in very clear words IF you care enough to just read the text.

Plutarch Antony himself was enjoying abundant peace and leisure, and was swept back by his passions into his wonted mode of life.
.....[2] Lute-players like Anaxenor,
.....flute-players like Xanthus,
.....one Metrodorus, a dancer,
.....and such other rabble of Asiatic performers,
.....who surpassed in impudence and effrontery the pests from Italy,
.....poured like a flood into his quarters and held sway there.

It was past all endurance that everything was devoted to these extravagances. [3] For all Asia, like the famous city of Sophocles,

.....was filled alike with incense offerings,
.....Alike with paeans, too, and voice of heavy groans.

At any rate, when Antony made his entry into Ephesus,
.....women arrayed like Bacchanals,
.....and men and boys like Satyrs and Pans, [wearing SOFT clothes]
.....led the way before him, and the city was full of ivy
.....and thyrsus-wands [Shaken Reeds]
.....and harps and pipes and flutes,
.....the people hailing him as Dionysus Giver of Joy and Beneficent.
For he was such, undoubtedly, to some; but to the greater part he was Dionysus Carnivorous and Savage.
..... [4] For he took their property from well-born men and bestowed it on flatterers and scoundrels.
From many, too, who were actually alive, men got their property by asking him for it
.....on the plea that the owners were dead.

See the DAVID pattern when the elders fired God and demanded a Senior Pastor:

http://www.piney.com/First-Samuel-Eight.html

The house of a man of Magnesia he gave to a cook, who, as we are told, had won reputation by a single supper. [5] But finally, when he was imposing a second contribution on the cities , Hybreas, speaking in behalf of Asia, plucked up courage to say this: If thou canst take a contribution twice in one year, thou hast power also to make summer for us twice, and harvest-time twice. These words were rhetorical, it is true, and agreeable to Antony's taste; but the speaker added in plain and bold words that Asia had given him two hundred thousand talents; If, said he, thou hast not received this money, demand it from those who took it; but if thou didst receive it, and hast it not, we are undone. [6] This speech made a powerful impression upon Antony; for he was ignorant of most that was going on, not so much because he was of an easy disposition, as because he was simple enough to trust those about him.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on August 2nd, 2012, 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 2nd, 2012, 1:33 am #45

With all respect to those opposing changes to the music, they do have every right to question such a signficant change. Elders are appointed by the Holy Spirit, but in keeping with the Reformation and the Restoration, every member is a priest of God. It's an unfortunate church where the members are disenfranchised. Calvin and Luther were against the "Popes of Christ". D. Lipscomb said that for men to assume that they have "office" is popish. One of the big problems in this atmosphere in the concept of the "elders" or "shepherds" themselves. It is unfortunate that there is such a power struggle that elders select their own, rather than to place this out to the congregation. The only explanation for this is that there are two churches meeting at Madison, and not one church.

As encouragement, consider these verses:


Romans 14:10 "But why do you judge your brother? or why do you set at nothing your brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11For it is written, As I live, said the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

Both sides are going to lose. The big question is where does this stop. It's like the camel who wanted on a cold windy night to stick his head in the window. The man inside obliged. Then the camel wanted to have his head through the door. The man obliged. Then the camel complained about the draft. The man closed the door. Then the camel said "It's too stuffy if here for both you and me. Why don't you leave."
The elders disqualify themselves up front. Paul begins Romans 14 by saying:

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

This speaks of people's personal preference opinions. Paul begins with the big issue in Rome about suspicion when converts went to the marketplace on CERTAIN days to buy CERTAIN foods. All of the meat and wine would be sold by the pagan temples. However, the principle excludes everything that stands in the way of edifying or in this context EDUCATION.

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

In Romans 15 Paul excludes the SELF-pleasure which is the LADED BURDEN of "creating spiritual anxiety through religious ceremonial." Both the Greek and Latin word excludes all of the performing arts men used to "lift you up" to take your property. Then the pattern defined in the wilderness is.

Romans 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of
our Lord Jesus Christ.

So, the elders have done two things God hates: They have imposed music in the "temple" and they have deliberately sowed discord. I don't believe that you lose when you point out the difference between "our preference" and the Commands of Christ. "Will He find faith when He returns?" No, almost none: so I think you can't lay out the word without getting hurt as Jesus told His diciples.
Quote
Like
Share

Anonymous
Anonymous

August 2nd, 2012, 4:12 am #46

Dear Fellow Madison Church of Christ Members;

A MESSAGE FROM THE ConcernedMembers

Our Job Is Not Over!

We have a plan that covers what we will be doing in the short and long range with three different phases.......

If you think back when you first learned about the real cause of the problems in our congregation, it probably hasn't been that long ago. Oh sure there are those that have known, but the large percentage of us didn't really know until somewhat recently.

You do have to wonder if things would have been different if someone had told us a year or so ago?

You know, I think people did try in their own way, and probably in the only way they could, and maybe we thought they were a little extreme.

I remember when Bob Johnson first told me what was going on and tried to show me the evidence. As much as I trusted Bob, I found it all rather hard to believe.

It wasn't until I sat down and read the material, that I realized what he said was true!

We should not expect anyone to believe us, unless they have read the material.

We are now in a situation that is addressed in ; Ezekiel 33:1-6. We have become the "Watchman". We are aware of information that affects our fellow members spiritual life. We are under an obligation to warn them. What they do with that information is then up to them.

I think we realize that we are not going to win many battles in the future, in fact only those the Lord wants us to win.

The battle at Madison Church of Christ is not about financially overburdened realestate. It is about the souls of our fellow members.

Before we move on to other churches, or before we can be relieved of this burden of knowledge we must try to inform as many others as possible.

There are some 314,000 churches in the U.S.A. That's a lot of souls! For some of us this could be a life long job.

Before we warn other churches and their members, we have a job to finish here. We have put together a three Phase program.

PHASE I

The first phase is warning our brothers and sisters in Madison, at the Church of Christ.

There is a book ( What Happened At The Madison Church of Christ?) being printed as you read this. This book covers a lot of the information for folks that have not accessed our web site at:

The book size was necessary to communicate the amount of information we need to relay.

The book is going to be made available to every Madison Church of Christ member FREE.

The first printed editions will be available through any of the ConcernedMembers, at 15 locations in Nashville, and downloadable and printable on the web.

We are not sure how long phase I will take. At it's completion we will begin phase II.


PHASE II

For 60 years Madison Church of Christ has been a beacon of light to the world. I think it could still be a beacon. But, this time it may be a beacon of either success or failure of the "Contemporary/Community Church Movement". At this time only the Lord knows which that may be.

This phase begins with us telling the world about the troubled waters in churches across America.

We will begin in the Greater Nashville Area.

Through advertisements in newspapers, and on the web we will try to bring folks in to our dedicated web site at: http://www.ConcernedMembers.com

Here they will have the resources and information to understand and cope with the changes they may find in their church. There will be links to ConcernedMembers web sites all over the country telling their story, and their successes and failures.


PHASE III

This is the beginning of our direct mail program. We will start with all the Church of Christ congregations in Tennessee.

We want to thank all the members for their overwhelming support.
Lets get started, we have a big job.

Thanks

ConcernedMembers

========================
Posts made prior to 10-23-2002 have been archived.
<a href="http://www.concernedmembers.com/forumar ... 4a.txt">[b]
Click here to read the archive.[/b]</a>
========================
One minute it is "We know Dave has SAID on more than one occasion that we may add IM because it "aids," "enhances," and "accompanies" our singing." The next minute we have "...even though his church is an a cappella church, he sees nothing wrong when other churches elect to have IM if it is their preference..."

What does William Crump end up with? He says "It doesn't have to be a "quote"; it's a synopsis of Dave's "belief" about IM."

Congratulations B. Since we are in the middle of the 2012 Summer Olympics you, B (William Crump) get the Gold Medal for talking out the side of your mouth. You would make President Obama proud. Very smooth....not truthful, but politician smooth.

Compare the two following sentences by B.
"We know Dave has said on more than one occasion that we may ADD IM because it "aids," "enhances," and "accompanies" our singing."
......and then.....
"Even though his church is an a cappella church, he sees nothing wrong when other churches elect to have IM if it is their preference."

It goes from ADDING IM to preferrence. William Crump, start with something small like your State Senate. It shouldn't take you more than a few years to make it to our US Senate with that acrid false tongue.
Quote
Share

Anonymous
Anonymous

August 2nd, 2012, 5:45 am #47

THIS WAS THE PERSONA WHICH MADE MORE THAN HALF OF THE OWNERS TO FLEE. The image marked on the minds of godly people does not need any Biblical evidence to spook them. It's in the DNA and a MARK to separate the lambs from the goats. That is not opinion.

In Ephesians 4 Paul said that Christ gave the Elders and the Pastor-Teachers commanded to teach that which had been taught. Their first task was to DISFELLOWSHIP the cunning craftsmen or Sophists which defines all of the parasites seeing godliness as a means of finacial gain--just an occupation. They USED all of the performing arts to SILENCE the voice of Christ AND steal their property under the ploy that it was for "the gods." Plutarch affirms the Bible and the Jewish Encyclopedia that the PATTERN of the musical bandits was imposed BECAUSE God had abandoned them to worship the starry host. Many historians wrote about the mess in Ephesus which Paul OUTLAWED in very clear words IF you care enough to just read the text.

Plutarch Antony himself was enjoying abundant peace and leisure, and was swept back by his passions into his wonted mode of life.
.....[2] Lute-players like Anaxenor,
.....flute-players like Xanthus,
.....one Metrodorus, a dancer,
.....and such other rabble of Asiatic performers,
.....who surpassed in impudence and effrontery the pests from Italy,
.....poured like a flood into his quarters and held sway there.

It was past all endurance that everything was devoted to these extravagances. [3] For all Asia, like the famous city of Sophocles,

.....was filled alike with incense offerings,
.....Alike with paeans, too, and voice of heavy groans.

At any rate, when Antony made his entry into Ephesus,
.....women arrayed like Bacchanals,
.....and men and boys like Satyrs and Pans, [wearing SOFT clothes]
.....led the way before him, and the city was full of ivy
.....and thyrsus-wands [Shaken Reeds]
.....and harps and pipes and flutes,
.....the people hailing him as Dionysus Giver of Joy and Beneficent.
For he was such, undoubtedly, to some; but to the greater part he was Dionysus Carnivorous and Savage.
..... [4] For he took their property from well-born men and bestowed it on flatterers and scoundrels.
From many, too, who were actually alive, men got their property by asking him for it
.....on the plea that the owners were dead.

See the DAVID pattern when the elders fired God and demanded a Senior Pastor:

http://www.piney.com/First-Samuel-Eight.html

The house of a man of Magnesia he gave to a cook, who, as we are told, had won reputation by a single supper. [5] But finally, when he was imposing a second contribution on the cities , Hybreas, speaking in behalf of Asia, plucked up courage to say this: If thou canst take a contribution twice in one year, thou hast power also to make summer for us twice, and harvest-time twice. These words were rhetorical, it is true, and agreeable to Antony's taste; but the speaker added in plain and bold words that Asia had given him two hundred thousand talents; If, said he, thou hast not received this money, demand it from those who took it; but if thou didst receive it, and hast it not, we are undone. [6] This speech made a powerful impression upon Antony; for he was ignorant of most that was going on, not so much because he was of an easy disposition, as because he was simple enough to trust those about him.
,,,and, of course, God didn't know what He was talking about. That's why we have lunatics like Ken to explain what He really meant...
Quote
Share

Racnor
Racnor

August 2nd, 2012, 4:04 pm #48

One minute it is "We know Dave has SAID on more than one occasion that we may add IM because it "aids," "enhances," and "accompanies" our singing." The next minute we have "...even though his church is an a cappella church, he sees nothing wrong when other churches elect to have IM if it is their preference..."

What does William Crump end up with? He says "It doesn't have to be a "quote"; it's a synopsis of Dave's "belief" about IM."

Congratulations B. Since we are in the middle of the 2012 Summer Olympics you, B (William Crump) get the Gold Medal for talking out the side of your mouth. You would make President Obama proud. Very smooth....not truthful, but politician smooth.

Compare the two following sentences by B.
"We know Dave has said on more than one occasion that we may ADD IM because it "aids," "enhances," and "accompanies" our singing."
......and then.....
"Even though his church is an a cappella church, he sees nothing wrong when other churches elect to have IM if it is their preference."

It goes from ADDING IM to preferrence. William Crump, start with something small like your State Senate. It shouldn't take you more than a few years to make it to our US Senate with that acrid false tongue.
"B" kinda reminds of a "Joe Biden". A real connoisseur of shoe leather. Just having a little fun with ya "B".
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 2nd, 2012, 4:42 pm #49

Dear Fellow Madison Church of Christ Members;

A MESSAGE FROM THE ConcernedMembers

Our Job Is Not Over!

We have a plan that covers what we will be doing in the short and long range with three different phases.......

If you think back when you first learned about the real cause of the problems in our congregation, it probably hasn't been that long ago. Oh sure there are those that have known, but the large percentage of us didn't really know until somewhat recently.

You do have to wonder if things would have been different if someone had told us a year or so ago?

You know, I think people did try in their own way, and probably in the only way they could, and maybe we thought they were a little extreme.

I remember when Bob Johnson first told me what was going on and tried to show me the evidence. As much as I trusted Bob, I found it all rather hard to believe.

It wasn't until I sat down and read the material, that I realized what he said was true!

We should not expect anyone to believe us, unless they have read the material.

We are now in a situation that is addressed in ; Ezekiel 33:1-6. We have become the "Watchman". We are aware of information that affects our fellow members spiritual life. We are under an obligation to warn them. What they do with that information is then up to them.

I think we realize that we are not going to win many battles in the future, in fact only those the Lord wants us to win.

The battle at Madison Church of Christ is not about financially overburdened realestate. It is about the souls of our fellow members.

Before we move on to other churches, or before we can be relieved of this burden of knowledge we must try to inform as many others as possible.

There are some 314,000 churches in the U.S.A. That's a lot of souls! For some of us this could be a life long job.

Before we warn other churches and their members, we have a job to finish here. We have put together a three Phase program.

PHASE I

The first phase is warning our brothers and sisters in Madison, at the Church of Christ.

There is a book ( What Happened At The Madison Church of Christ?) being printed as you read this. This book covers a lot of the information for folks that have not accessed our web site at:

The book size was necessary to communicate the amount of information we need to relay.

The book is going to be made available to every Madison Church of Christ member FREE.

The first printed editions will be available through any of the ConcernedMembers, at 15 locations in Nashville, and downloadable and printable on the web.

We are not sure how long phase I will take. At it's completion we will begin phase II.


PHASE II

For 60 years Madison Church of Christ has been a beacon of light to the world. I think it could still be a beacon. But, this time it may be a beacon of either success or failure of the "Contemporary/Community Church Movement". At this time only the Lord knows which that may be.

This phase begins with us telling the world about the troubled waters in churches across America.

We will begin in the Greater Nashville Area.

Through advertisements in newspapers, and on the web we will try to bring folks in to our dedicated web site at: http://www.ConcernedMembers.com

Here they will have the resources and information to understand and cope with the changes they may find in their church. There will be links to ConcernedMembers web sites all over the country telling their story, and their successes and failures.


PHASE III

This is the beginning of our direct mail program. We will start with all the Church of Christ congregations in Tennessee.

We want to thank all the members for their overwhelming support.
Lets get started, we have a big job.

Thanks

ConcernedMembers

========================
Posts made prior to 10-23-2002 have been archived.
<a href="http://www.concernedmembers.com/forumar ... 4a.txt">[b]
Click here to read the archive.[/b]</a>
========================
Sorry about the images but this is the only way to format well. The Spirit OF Christ gave gifted men to assure that His Church or assembly was set in order and the plan recorded. If God insists that the CUNNING or CRAFTY or SOPHIST be EXCLUDED in order to make the TEACHING only plan work, they how can anyone say that Christ has not spoken. You MUST define words as they were used at the time and understand what the Spirit knew. We have noted that the Spirit of Christ never used any of the compound words ALWAYS used in the ancient text. Nor, does he follow the simple understanding by commanding that we SING and PLAY with the name of a mechanical instrument named. In Song and Psalm, the human voice is always listed as the FIRST INSTRUMENT of choice. Scripture always NAMES that which is to be used.






<font face="arial" size="4">After disposing of all of the performers or private opinions which do not edify or EDUCATE Paul again outlawed all performance roles with the SELF-pleasure word. You MUST understand that the Greek ARESKOS or the Latin PLACEO names all of the rhetoric, performance singing, playing instruments, acting or dancing which word is INCLUDED in the music word never used of God's people.

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
Romans 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

Yes, I know that he did not say THOU SHALT NOT use Twila Paris or the simple songs of the simple singers. God AFFIRMS: he is not required to list the 100 things you CANNOT do which are not conducive to the SCHOOL OF CHRIST (Campbell's understanding the Spirit of Christ in the wilderness.
</font>
Quote
Like
Share

B
B

August 2nd, 2012, 5:15 pm #50

One minute it is "We know Dave has SAID on more than one occasion that we may add IM because it "aids," "enhances," and "accompanies" our singing." The next minute we have "...even though his church is an a cappella church, he sees nothing wrong when other churches elect to have IM if it is their preference..."

What does William Crump end up with? He says "It doesn't have to be a "quote"; it's a synopsis of Dave's "belief" about IM."

Congratulations B. Since we are in the middle of the 2012 Summer Olympics you, B (William Crump) get the Gold Medal for talking out the side of your mouth. You would make President Obama proud. Very smooth....not truthful, but politician smooth.

Compare the two following sentences by B.
"We know Dave has said on more than one occasion that we may ADD IM because it "aids," "enhances," and "accompanies" our singing."
......and then.....
"Even though his church is an a cappella church, he sees nothing wrong when other churches elect to have IM if it is their preference."

It goes from ADDING IM to preferrence. William Crump, start with something small like your State Senate. It shouldn't take you more than a few years to make it to our US Senate with that acrid false tongue.
Anonymous (DF) must be really upset and hallucinating, because now he's raving about the State Senate and calling people "William Crump" when there's nobody posting here under that name.

Whatever, my best advice is to follow the teachings of Christ and His apostles as written in the New Testament. That includes the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command. Someone who's supposed to be an "elder" should know better than to substitute "God didn't say not to" or similarly unscriptural sentiments for the NATNTF command in order to "justify" instrumental music.
Quote
Share