A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S

B
B

July 28th, 2012, 9:55 pm #11

Since we here at CM advocate following the teachings of Christ and His apostles as written in the New Testament, it's odd that an "elder" of a church of Christ congregation would object to that. He apparently thinks that we here at CM interpret Christ's teachings according to man's principles. Although this "elder" didn't get into specifics, I can think of at least one. This "elder" apparently thinks it's perfectly acceptable to ADD more to Christ's explicit commands than what Christ has specified therein, all on the false, man-made reasoning of "God/Jesus didn't say not to." Specifically, this so-called "elder" sees nothing wrong if congregations ADD instrumental music to worship God when Jesus through Paul specifies vocal music and stops there. This "elder" guy apparently thinks that "God/Jesus didn't say not to" is part of Jesus' Gospel. Here's some news for this guy who plays at being an "elder": Adding instrumental music interprets the New Testament according to man's principles. Refraining from using instrumental music simply stops where the New Testament stops; doing so simply follows the New Testament directive without going any further. That false "elder" recently accused the members of this site of interpreting the New Testament according to man's principles, yet he does exactly that when he gives a nod to those who use instruments in worship.
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Racnor
Racnor

July 29th, 2012, 2:14 pm #12

"Since we here at CM advocate following the teachings of Christ and His apostles as written in the New Testament, it's odd that an "elder" of a church of Christ congregation would object to that. He apparently thinks that we here at CM interpret Christ's teachings according to man's principles."

"Adding instrumental music interprets the New Testament according to man's principles. Refraining from using instrumental music simply stops where the New Testament stops; doing so simply follows the New Testament directive without going any further."

*************************************


But you can't have it both ways. A "CM advocate" has stated the following.



"Acappella, A cappella not Biblical: Modern songs sung with complex harmony by groups have no more Biblical authority than the use of Instrumental music."
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B
B

July 29th, 2012, 6:54 pm #13

The New Testament addresses the kind of music to use, which is vocal music, and stops there. The New Testament doesn't address singing in unison or harmony at all. Furthermore, the New Testament doesn't address volume, pitch, or tempo. Therefore, unison, harmony, volume, pitch, and tempo are not doctrinal issues; man is free to implement them. But vocal music IS a doctrinal issue, because it IS addressed in the New Testament. Because vocal music is the ONLY kind of music that is specified, then adding other kinds of music, like instrumental music, does not comply with New Testament Scripture.
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David Fields
David Fields

July 29th, 2012, 8:31 pm #14

Dear Fellow Madison Church of Christ Members;

A MESSAGE FROM THE ConcernedMembers

Our Job Is Not Over!

We have a plan that covers what we will be doing in the short and long range with three different phases.......

If you think back when you first learned about the real cause of the problems in our congregation, it probably hasn't been that long ago. Oh sure there are those that have known, but the large percentage of us didn't really know until somewhat recently.

You do have to wonder if things would have been different if someone had told us a year or so ago?

You know, I think people did try in their own way, and probably in the only way they could, and maybe we thought they were a little extreme.

I remember when Bob Johnson first told me what was going on and tried to show me the evidence. As much as I trusted Bob, I found it all rather hard to believe.

It wasn't until I sat down and read the material, that I realized what he said was true!

We should not expect anyone to believe us, unless they have read the material.

We are now in a situation that is addressed in ; Ezekiel 33:1-6. We have become the "Watchman". We are aware of information that affects our fellow members spiritual life. We are under an obligation to warn them. What they do with that information is then up to them.

I think we realize that we are not going to win many battles in the future, in fact only those the Lord wants us to win.

The battle at Madison Church of Christ is not about financially overburdened realestate. It is about the souls of our fellow members.

Before we move on to other churches, or before we can be relieved of this burden of knowledge we must try to inform as many others as possible.

There are some 314,000 churches in the U.S.A. That's a lot of souls! For some of us this could be a life long job.

Before we warn other churches and their members, we have a job to finish here. We have put together a three Phase program.

PHASE I

The first phase is warning our brothers and sisters in Madison, at the Church of Christ.

There is a book ( What Happened At The Madison Church of Christ?) being printed as you read this. This book covers a lot of the information for folks that have not accessed our web site at:

The book size was necessary to communicate the amount of information we need to relay.

The book is going to be made available to every Madison Church of Christ member FREE.

The first printed editions will be available through any of the ConcernedMembers, at 15 locations in Nashville, and downloadable and printable on the web.

We are not sure how long phase I will take. At it's completion we will begin phase II.


PHASE II

For 60 years Madison Church of Christ has been a beacon of light to the world. I think it could still be a beacon. But, this time it may be a beacon of either success or failure of the "Contemporary/Community Church Movement". At this time only the Lord knows which that may be.

This phase begins with us telling the world about the troubled waters in churches across America.

We will begin in the Greater Nashville Area.

Through advertisements in newspapers, and on the web we will try to bring folks in to our dedicated web site at: http://www.ConcernedMembers.com

Here they will have the resources and information to understand and cope with the changes they may find in their church. There will be links to ConcernedMembers web sites all over the country telling their story, and their successes and failures.


PHASE III

This is the beginning of our direct mail program. We will start with all the Church of Christ congregations in Tennessee.

We want to thank all the members for their overwhelming support.
Lets get started, we have a big job.

Thanks

ConcernedMembers

========================
Posts made prior to 10-23-2002 have been archived.
<a href="http://www.concernedmembers.com/forumar ... 4a.txt">[b]
Click here to read the archive.[/b]</a>
========================
Donnie, you change my alias to anything you want. If you like Dave Fields, then use it. It is how you folks operate. Maybe you can suggest that B use his real name? Never mind, that would take away a double standard. Don't do that.
B said "This "elder" APPARENTLY thinks it's perfectly acceptable to ADD more to Christ's explicit commands than what Christ has specified therein, all on the false, man-made reasoning of "God/Jesus didn't say not to." SPECIFICALLY, this so-called "elder" sees nothing wrong if congregations ADD instrumental music to worship God when Jesus through Paul specifies vocal music and stops there. This "elder" guy APPARENTLY thinks that "God/Jesus didn't say not to" is part of Jesus' Gospel. Here's some news for this guy who plays at being an "elder..."

Notice that I capitalized the three words: APPARENTLY, SPECIFICALLY, and APPARENTLY again. B is a false teacher and therefore would insert these words (capitzalized) to make it seem that I had made these ASSUMPTIONS. Exactly the modus operandi of concernedmembers. Just as much as good can spread so can evil. B and Donnie Cruz proves this very fact. They live it every day. I have never said that "God didn't say to" but I don't have to....B and Donnie will say it for me. God's Word in Acts 20: 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
However, men like B and Donnie Cruz don't accept this....they don't hold to God's Word that the Holy Spirit had put them in their place of leadership. Men like B and Donnie Cruz want to show that they know better and want another direction different from what God wants. Because the Madison elders decide not to go with what these men want.....then these evil men want to condemn these elders. The elders at Madison haven't gone against the Scriptures but against what Donnie, B, and others want. So Donnie and B, like children, have decided to throw little tantrums because they didn't get their way. Donnie and others have decided to create this evil site because they are selfish and didn't get their way with the elders. They want their traditions, traditions of men, to be upheld. Jesus and the apostles didn't dress up for worship, nor did they know four part harmony, yet Donnie and such men say that when they put on their coat and ties and sing four part harmony that it isn't traditions of men. If they aren't traditions of men, then what are they? Most of what we do on Sunday is traditions of men, which in and of itself isn't wrong. It goes terribly wrong when men cater to one set of traditions over another set.

+++++++++++++++++

NOTE: "Madison Rules, ABSee the Cat, You Pick! as "Your Name" did not pass. When you become an elder of Madison (coming from Clemson), your "Madison Rules" ID will be more meaningful, appropriate and applicable. But not until then.
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on July 29th, 2012, 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave Fields
Dave Fields

July 29th, 2012, 8:37 pm #15

Dear Fellow Madison Church of Christ Members;

A MESSAGE FROM THE ConcernedMembers

Our Job Is Not Over!

We have a plan that covers what we will be doing in the short and long range with three different phases.......

If you think back when you first learned about the real cause of the problems in our congregation, it probably hasn't been that long ago. Oh sure there are those that have known, but the large percentage of us didn't really know until somewhat recently.

You do have to wonder if things would have been different if someone had told us a year or so ago?

You know, I think people did try in their own way, and probably in the only way they could, and maybe we thought they were a little extreme.

I remember when Bob Johnson first told me what was going on and tried to show me the evidence. As much as I trusted Bob, I found it all rather hard to believe.

It wasn't until I sat down and read the material, that I realized what he said was true!

We should not expect anyone to believe us, unless they have read the material.

We are now in a situation that is addressed in ; Ezekiel 33:1-6. We have become the "Watchman". We are aware of information that affects our fellow members spiritual life. We are under an obligation to warn them. What they do with that information is then up to them.

I think we realize that we are not going to win many battles in the future, in fact only those the Lord wants us to win.

The battle at Madison Church of Christ is not about financially overburdened realestate. It is about the souls of our fellow members.

Before we move on to other churches, or before we can be relieved of this burden of knowledge we must try to inform as many others as possible.

There are some 314,000 churches in the U.S.A. That's a lot of souls! For some of us this could be a life long job.

Before we warn other churches and their members, we have a job to finish here. We have put together a three Phase program.

PHASE I

The first phase is warning our brothers and sisters in Madison, at the Church of Christ.

There is a book ( What Happened At The Madison Church of Christ?) being printed as you read this. This book covers a lot of the information for folks that have not accessed our web site at:

The book size was necessary to communicate the amount of information we need to relay.

The book is going to be made available to every Madison Church of Christ member FREE.

The first printed editions will be available through any of the ConcernedMembers, at 15 locations in Nashville, and downloadable and printable on the web.

We are not sure how long phase I will take. At it's completion we will begin phase II.


PHASE II

For 60 years Madison Church of Christ has been a beacon of light to the world. I think it could still be a beacon. But, this time it may be a beacon of either success or failure of the "Contemporary/Community Church Movement". At this time only the Lord knows which that may be.

This phase begins with us telling the world about the troubled waters in churches across America.

We will begin in the Greater Nashville Area.

Through advertisements in newspapers, and on the web we will try to bring folks in to our dedicated web site at: http://www.ConcernedMembers.com

Here they will have the resources and information to understand and cope with the changes they may find in their church. There will be links to ConcernedMembers web sites all over the country telling their story, and their successes and failures.


PHASE III

This is the beginning of our direct mail program. We will start with all the Church of Christ congregations in Tennessee.

We want to thank all the members for their overwhelming support.
Lets get started, we have a big job.

Thanks

ConcernedMembers

========================
Posts made prior to 10-23-2002 have been archived.
<a href="http://www.concernedmembers.com/forumar ... 4a.txt">[b]
Click here to read the archive.[/b]</a>
========================
"Because vocal music is the ONLY kind of music that is specified, then adding other kinds of music, like instrumental music, does not comply with New Testament Scripture."

Not so....SINGING does not exclude instrumental music....YOU DO B!.

We are told to sing and instrumental music doesn't keep us from singing. It only accompanies the voice.....It only AIDS the voice.....nothing more....no matter how loud one cries about it.


=======================

NOTE: "Atlanta Braves as your ID has been changed. Let us know if you wish to use "Atlanta Braves" as your ID consistently, and we'll go from there.
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on July 29th, 2012, 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Racnor
Racnor

July 29th, 2012, 8:54 pm #16

The New Testament addresses the kind of music to use, which is vocal music, and stops there. The New Testament doesn't address singing in unison or harmony at all. Furthermore, the New Testament doesn't address volume, pitch, or tempo. Therefore, unison, harmony, volume, pitch, and tempo are not doctrinal issues; man is free to implement them. But vocal music IS a doctrinal issue, because it IS addressed in the New Testament. Because vocal music is the ONLY kind of music that is specified, then adding other kinds of music, like instrumental music, does not comply with New Testament Scripture.
"B" thanks for just giving us YOUR opinion on this matter. It's obvious that the "CM Camp" is divided on the issues of singing and IM. Have a nice day.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

July 29th, 2012, 9:26 pm #17

"Since we here at CM advocate following the teachings of Christ and His apostles as written in the New Testament, it's odd that an "elder" of a church of Christ congregation would object to that. He apparently thinks that we here at CM interpret Christ's teachings according to man's principles."

"Adding instrumental music interprets the New Testament according to man's principles. Refraining from using instrumental music simply stops where the New Testament stops; doing so simply follows the New Testament directive without going any further."

*************************************


But you can't have it both ways. A "CM advocate" has stated the following.



"Acappella, A cappella not Biblical: Modern songs sung with complex harmony by groups have no more Biblical authority than the use of Instrumental music."
The remark "Acappella, A cappella not Biblical:" is clearly further explained by what follows -- "modern songs sung with complex harmony by groups...."

"A cappella" music has had its own unique history, although it has been defined in modern times as simply non-instrumental.

The church dissidents, a.k.a. the "change agents" in the brotherhood, have used "a cappella" music in defense of the use of psudo-professional services of the "Praise Team" [the equivalent of the Baptist CHOIR] in "worship." That [the acappella Praise Team] is the gimmick used by the change agents in their "boiling the frog" methodology of transitioning from the CHOIR (Praise Team) to fully implementing the worldly instrumental music in "worship."

Modern "praise [rah-rah-rah]" songs originating mainly from money-making "Christian Rock" artists and performers, especially those with Pentecostal/charismatic religious backgrounds, are written with all sorts of musical instruments as part of the performances. Praise Teams, with the the awareness of "forbidden" instruments, make adjustments to the type of music with: (1) rhythmic handclapping [that they "gladly" refer to as "joyous" praising]; (2) emulation/simulation of instrumental music sounds and noises; and (3) very complex harmony that creates an atmosphere for the congregation of the praise-team-dependency syndrome. Meaning that the congregation alone will have difficulty singing without the worship-leading Praise Team.

The object of the assembly of the saints, based on the Colossian and Ephesian references, is NOT about singing or music. Rather, it is about "letting the word of Christ dwell in you richly." And speaking or singing is the medium used by which we can teach and admonish one another.

The original message you quoted simply suggests that neither instrumental music nor complex a cappella music accomplishes the purpose for which teaching and admonishing one another through singing is served.
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B
B

July 30th, 2012, 1:31 am #18

"Because vocal music is the ONLY kind of music that is specified, then adding other kinds of music, like instrumental music, does not comply with New Testament Scripture."

Not so....SINGING does not exclude instrumental music....YOU DO B!.

We are told to sing and instrumental music doesn't keep us from singing. It only accompanies the voice.....It only AIDS the voice.....nothing more....no matter how loud one cries about it.


=======================

NOTE: "Atlanta Braves as your ID has been changed. Let us know if you wish to use "Atlanta Braves" as your ID consistently, and we'll go from there.
Dave argues for instrumental music, because he says it "aids" and "accompanies" the singing. That is merely Dave's opinion that has no sound, scriptural basis. Dave doesn't seem to realize that the New Testament only says to sing and make melody in the heart, but it says NOTHING about adding instruments to "aid" or "accompany" our singing. Therefore, Dave and others ADD TO AND EXCEED the New Testament directive when they support the use of instruments. Is Dave not familiar with the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command? He should be, since he has apparently chosen to thumb his nose at it. If we really want to do the right and safe thing, we will follow the specifications within God's/Jesus' commands and not go beyond what He has written about them in the New Testament.

The New Testament directive only specifies vocal music and stops there. We must do the same. Dave says instruments do not prevent us from singing, but that's really not the point, and Dave should know that. The POINT is that even though the New Testament only instructs us to use vocal music, it has NOT given us permission to add instrumental music or any other kind of music to "aid" or "accompany" our singing. The neither-add-to-nor-take-from command takes care of that. Bible believers will be content with the New Testament directive about vocal music, whereas change agents and other malcontents will go over God's/Jesus' head and do as they please.

What about volume, pitch, tempo, and singing in unison or harmony? Does the New Testament provide any directives about them? No. Therefore, they are not doctrinal issues and we may implement them. On the other hand, the music with which we praise God IS definitely a doctrinal issue, because the New Testament not only addresses it but goes on to specify vocal music. Since instrumental music doesn't even enter the picture, we may not use it. As I said earlier, the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command takes care of that.
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B
B

July 30th, 2012, 2:02 am #19

"B" thanks for just giving us YOUR opinion on this matter. It's obvious that the "CM Camp" is divided on the issues of singing and IM. Have a nice day.
It's like this: If Jesus sent an angel to earth disguised as a simple preacher who urged everyone to follow the teachings of Christ and His apostles as written in the New Testament, Racnor would probably respond with something like, "Well, mister, thanks for just giving us YOUR opinion on this matter."
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B
B

July 30th, 2012, 2:13 am #20

Donnie, you change my alias to anything you want. If you like Dave Fields, then use it. It is how you folks operate. Maybe you can suggest that B use his real name? Never mind, that would take away a double standard. Don't do that.
B said "This "elder" APPARENTLY thinks it's perfectly acceptable to ADD more to Christ's explicit commands than what Christ has specified therein, all on the false, man-made reasoning of "God/Jesus didn't say not to." SPECIFICALLY, this so-called "elder" sees nothing wrong if congregations ADD instrumental music to worship God when Jesus through Paul specifies vocal music and stops there. This "elder" guy APPARENTLY thinks that "God/Jesus didn't say not to" is part of Jesus' Gospel. Here's some news for this guy who plays at being an "elder..."

Notice that I capitalized the three words: APPARENTLY, SPECIFICALLY, and APPARENTLY again. B is a false teacher and therefore would insert these words (capitzalized) to make it seem that I had made these ASSUMPTIONS. Exactly the modus operandi of concernedmembers. Just as much as good can spread so can evil. B and Donnie Cruz proves this very fact. They live it every day. I have never said that "God didn't say to" but I don't have to....B and Donnie will say it for me. God's Word in Acts 20: 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
However, men like B and Donnie Cruz don't accept this....they don't hold to God's Word that the Holy Spirit had put them in their place of leadership. Men like B and Donnie Cruz want to show that they know better and want another direction different from what God wants. Because the Madison elders decide not to go with what these men want.....then these evil men want to condemn these elders. The elders at Madison haven't gone against the Scriptures but against what Donnie, B, and others want. So Donnie and B, like children, have decided to throw little tantrums because they didn't get their way. Donnie and others have decided to create this evil site because they are selfish and didn't get their way with the elders. They want their traditions, traditions of men, to be upheld. Jesus and the apostles didn't dress up for worship, nor did they know four part harmony, yet Donnie and such men say that when they put on their coat and ties and sing four part harmony that it isn't traditions of men. If they aren't traditions of men, then what are they? Most of what we do on Sunday is traditions of men, which in and of itself isn't wrong. It goes terribly wrong when men cater to one set of traditions over another set.

+++++++++++++++++

NOTE: "Madison Rules, ABSee the Cat, You Pick! as "Your Name" did not pass. When you become an elder of Madison (coming from Clemson), your "Madison Rules" ID will be more meaningful, appropriate and applicable. But not until then.
Donnie isn't asking Dave to give his real name if he doesn't want to; he's simply asking Dave to pick a user name and use it CONSISTENTLY. That's what B does. But since Dave continues to use all manner of ridiculous IDs with his ranting posts about how "evil" this site is, then Donnie just fills in Dave's real name. Maybe Dave will eventually learn; maybe not. Probably not.
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