A Summary Of What One Will Find Here

Sonny Elliot
Sonny Elliot

September 23rd, 2011, 3:23 am #1

If an individual has been searching for truth, he or she has come to the right place by discovering the concerned members of the Madison Church of Christ internet page. One will learn the following unequivocal truths while visiting and reading:

"Change Agents" are "sinful." Churches of Christ without them are both united and growing, and those with them are divided and dying.

Singing with music is "sinful" except when people in the Old Testament did it for several hundred years, but God then abruptly changed his mind, which is obviously communicated in the New Testament.

Celebrating birthdays is "sinful" in a church building but not in a home with Christians gathered, unless they worship and then even a closing prayer would not save you. However, choruses from Christian colleges and universities can sing at a church assembly at a building on a Sunday night after a dismissal prayer. God leaves the building after the prayer as the singing is not worship but entertainment.

Maybe singing happy birthday at a potluck would be okay Brother Crump?

God cannot let children clap while singing slide. It cannot slide because it - yes - clapping - is "sinful," and those children are in darkness and despair. God did not call clapping in the Old Testament a sin, but understand that He abruptly changed his mind by not mentioning it in the New Testament, which "clearly and unequivocally" conveys that it is now "sinful."

Praise Teams are "sinful." There is actually some confusion in the ranks of ultra-conservatism on this one here at Concerned Members, as it was expressed about a year ago by Brother Ken Sublett here at CM that it is okay for four men at the Inner-City Church of Christ in Tennessee to stand and sing with mics. So there is an exception for this congregation.

(Let the attacks begin...)
We here at Concerned Members will continue to be consistent and unwaivering in our stand for the truth (our version).

-Sonny Elliot
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 23rd, 2011, 7:57 am #2

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The brief responses below are numbered in the order of statements expressed by Sonny Elliott:[/color]
<ol>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]ConcernedMembers was initiated by the owners upon/while witnessing the division in progress at the Madison congregation before their very own eyes. The change agents in the brotherhood had already accomplished their mission in transforming other mega churches in the brotherhood into Community Church-ism -- Oaks Hills Church [formerly "of Christ"] and The Hills Church (formerly Richland Hills Church of Christ), to list a couple of the mega churches. Madison, another mega church, was going to be their next victim. There were actually "church leaders" who were sent to observe and learn about Rick Warren's Saddleback Community Church in CA. They came back and implemented some of the culture-driven methodologies (actually SCHEMES) for numerical church growth. This was approved by the slim majority of the elders (8 of 15) at that time -- and sadly, the voice of the minority of 7 elders did not count. The elders were divided -- a fact which the author of this thread [Sonny] considers irrelevant and insignificant. Many elders at that time resigned or LEFT. And so was the membership divided -- half of the members left to seek fellowship elsewhere. (Reasons for this sad and unfortunate division have already been explained numerous times. The introduction of musical instruments into the assembly at Madison remains to be seen.)

It's Sonny's right to ignore "the truth" about what's really happened at Madison.[/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is not surprising anymore that Sonny loves and appreciates the efforts of the change agents operating in the brotherhood -- interfering with the affairs of peaceful and once-peaceful congregations. Madison was a peaceful and united congregation. Sonny is in denial that the change agents caused the division at Madison; he believes that the division was caused either by some unknown factors or by a website. Caused by a website? Think again![/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Let's remind Sonny that playing musical instruments "unto the Lord" was never commanded or directed by God even in the Old Testament. God never changed His mind regarding that He never directed in the first place. The apostles were also "smart" enough not to outsmart God who has NEVER directed His people to play mechanical music devices in the assembly. Period. So, the New Testament Christians of the first century DID NOT DO IT. The New Testament Christians of the 21st century are not about to do that, either. (I'm glad that Sonny mentioned "people in the Old Testament" as Nebucchadnezzar did so with "the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music" while they worshipped the golden image [Daniel 3].) [/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Celebrating birthdays is "sinful" -- where did you get that? Remember, contributors here exercise their freedom of speech or opinion. CM has its concerns about the evil schemes of the change agents.[/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Same as 4: Celebrating birthdays is "sinful" -- where did you get that? Remember, contributors here exercise their freedom of speech or opinion. CM has its concerns about the evil schemes of the change agents.[/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Children can clap, of course, and it is not an issue. Right, just ignore the fact that there are those in a non-clapping congregation [vs. churches in which clapping is a normal activity] who are offended by the noise. Poor senior citizens who jump out of their skin when they hear the "thunder." But members of the church should be more considerate of their fellow members in regard to the matter. It's funny, Sonny, that there are those adults who didn't clap in their early adult Christian years who NOW resort or revert to their newly found clapping activity. Oh, well, I can't help but think of what's known as "second childhood."[/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The "Praise Team." The acquired "Baptist Choir" or the Catholic "Boys Choir" or the "Mormon Tabernacle Choir." This has been discussed to death [and, sorry, I'm short of time]. But that's how the mega churches (Oak Hills, Richland Hills, etc.) started out their venture into the Community Church transformation. And what followed the "Praise Team"? Guess!!! Instrumental music!!! Let's wait and see what happens at Madison next. The Praise Team was a major factor in the division, remember? [/color]
</li>[/list]
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Dave
Dave

September 23rd, 2011, 1:15 pm #3

If an individual has been searching for truth, he or she has come to the right place by discovering the concerned members of the Madison Church of Christ internet page. One will learn the following unequivocal truths while visiting and reading:

"Change Agents" are "sinful." Churches of Christ without them are both united and growing, and those with them are divided and dying.

Singing with music is "sinful" except when people in the Old Testament did it for several hundred years, but God then abruptly changed his mind, which is obviously communicated in the New Testament.

Celebrating birthdays is "sinful" in a church building but not in a home with Christians gathered, unless they worship and then even a closing prayer would not save you. However, choruses from Christian colleges and universities can sing at a church assembly at a building on a Sunday night after a dismissal prayer. God leaves the building after the prayer as the singing is not worship but entertainment.

Maybe singing happy birthday at a potluck would be okay Brother Crump?

God cannot let children clap while singing slide. It cannot slide because it - yes - clapping - is "sinful," and those children are in darkness and despair. God did not call clapping in the Old Testament a sin, but understand that He abruptly changed his mind by not mentioning it in the New Testament, which "clearly and unequivocally" conveys that it is now "sinful."

Praise Teams are "sinful." There is actually some confusion in the ranks of ultra-conservatism on this one here at Concerned Members, as it was expressed about a year ago by Brother Ken Sublett here at CM that it is okay for four men at the Inner-City Church of Christ in Tennessee to stand and sing with mics. So there is an exception for this congregation.

(Let the attacks begin...)
We here at Concerned Members will continue to be consistent and unwaivering in our stand for the truth (our version).

-Sonny Elliot
Post this if you care, or delete this post as you have with many of my recent attempts at posting.

Donnie, all of your odious 7 points comes down to your comment in #6. You said "It's funny, Sonny, that there are those adults who didn't clap in their early adult Christian years who NOW resort or revert to their newly found clapping activity. Oh, well, I can't help but think of what's known as "second childhood.""


Donnie, again, your opinion or interpretation is irrelevant because of your immaturity in responding. "Second childhood," indeed! Donnie, the fact is with all that I have seen of you here at concernedmembers and in the past with Faithsite.com....I can't say you are acting out your second childhood....for you have never left your first one.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

September 23rd, 2011, 2:15 pm #4

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The brief responses below are numbered in the order of statements expressed by Sonny Elliott:[/color]
<ol>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]ConcernedMembers was initiated by the owners upon/while witnessing the division in progress at the Madison congregation before their very own eyes. The change agents in the brotherhood had already accomplished their mission in transforming other mega churches in the brotherhood into Community Church-ism -- Oaks Hills Church [formerly "of Christ"] and The Hills Church (formerly Richland Hills Church of Christ), to list a couple of the mega churches. Madison, another mega church, was going to be their next victim. There were actually "church leaders" who were sent to observe and learn about Rick Warren's Saddleback Community Church in CA. They came back and implemented some of the culture-driven methodologies (actually SCHEMES) for numerical church growth. This was approved by the slim majority of the elders (8 of 15) at that time -- and sadly, the voice of the minority of 7 elders did not count. The elders were divided -- a fact which the author of this thread [Sonny] considers irrelevant and insignificant. Many elders at that time resigned or LEFT. And so was the membership divided -- half of the members left to seek fellowship elsewhere. (Reasons for this sad and unfortunate division have already been explained numerous times. The introduction of musical instruments into the assembly at Madison remains to be seen.)

It's Sonny's right to ignore "the truth" about what's really happened at Madison.[/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is not surprising anymore that Sonny loves and appreciates the efforts of the change agents operating in the brotherhood -- interfering with the affairs of peaceful and once-peaceful congregations. Madison was a peaceful and united congregation. Sonny is in denial that the change agents caused the division at Madison; he believes that the division was caused either by some unknown factors or by a website. Caused by a website? Think again![/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Let's remind Sonny that playing musical instruments "unto the Lord" was never commanded or directed by God even in the Old Testament. God never changed His mind regarding that He never directed in the first place. The apostles were also "smart" enough not to outsmart God who has NEVER directed His people to play mechanical music devices in the assembly. Period. So, the New Testament Christians of the first century DID NOT DO IT. The New Testament Christians of the 21st century are not about to do that, either. (I'm glad that Sonny mentioned "people in the Old Testament" as Nebucchadnezzar did so with "the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music" while they worshipped the golden image [Daniel 3].) [/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Celebrating birthdays is "sinful" -- where did you get that? Remember, contributors here exercise their freedom of speech or opinion. CM has its concerns about the evil schemes of the change agents.[/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Same as 4: Celebrating birthdays is "sinful" -- where did you get that? Remember, contributors here exercise their freedom of speech or opinion. CM has its concerns about the evil schemes of the change agents.[/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Children can clap, of course, and it is not an issue. Right, just ignore the fact that there are those in a non-clapping congregation [vs. churches in which clapping is a normal activity] who are offended by the noise. Poor senior citizens who jump out of their skin when they hear the "thunder." But members of the church should be more considerate of their fellow members in regard to the matter. It's funny, Sonny, that there are those adults who didn't clap in their early adult Christian years who NOW resort or revert to their newly found clapping activity. Oh, well, I can't help but think of what's known as "second childhood."[/color]

</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The "Praise Team." The acquired "Baptist Choir" or the Catholic "Boys Choir" or the "Mormon Tabernacle Choir." This has been discussed to death [and, sorry, I'm short of time]. But that's how the mega churches (Oak Hills, Richland Hills, etc.) started out their venture into the Community Church transformation. And what followed the "Praise Team"? Guess!!! Instrumental music!!! Let's wait and see what happens at Madison next. The Praise Team was a major factor in the division, remember? [/color]
</li>[/list]
I see that Sonny has resurrected the "birthdays" bit yet again. I gather that topic has been eating at him for months. There hasn't been a "discussion" about birthdays here in months, yet Sonny STILL fixates on that topic. WOW! He's like a little mutt that attacks the mail carrier's leg and just won't let go. "YIP-YIP-YAP-YAP--(CHOMP)!!"
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

September 23rd, 2011, 2:29 pm #5

Post this if you care, or delete this post as you have with many of my recent attempts at posting.

Donnie, all of your odious 7 points comes down to your comment in #6. You said "It's funny, Sonny, that there are those adults who didn't clap in their early adult Christian years who NOW resort or revert to their newly found clapping activity. Oh, well, I can't help but think of what's known as "second childhood.""


Donnie, again, your opinion or interpretation is irrelevant because of your immaturity in responding. "Second childhood," indeed! Donnie, the fact is with all that I have seen of you here at concernedmembers and in the past with Faithsite.com....I can't say you are acting out your second childhood....for you have never left your first one.
I wondered why we hadn't heard much from Dave. Now we know why. Dave says he had made "many" recent attempts to post. The content was evidently too malicious; otherwise they would have been accepted. Since Dave's present post features his usual insults, I can imagine that his deleted posts were indeed un-Christ-like.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 23rd, 2011, 3:21 pm #6

Post this if you care, or delete this post as you have with many of my recent attempts at posting.

Donnie, all of your odious 7 points comes down to your comment in #6. You said "It's funny, Sonny, that there are those adults who didn't clap in their early adult Christian years who NOW resort or revert to their newly found clapping activity. Oh, well, I can't help but think of what's known as "second childhood.""


Donnie, again, your opinion or interpretation is irrelevant because of your immaturity in responding. "Second childhood," indeed! Donnie, the fact is with all that I have seen of you here at concernedmembers and in the past with Faithsite.com....I can't say you are acting out your second childhood....for you have never left your first one.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

I do not recall deleting "many" of your "recent attempts at posting." Instead, I post your messages so that readers will get to know better the real you and your demeanor, as well as your stance on a number of issues that are not representative of the church of which you claim to be a member. But just in case it is true that "many" of your messages have not been published, feel free to append them below -- I know you keep copies of your messages.

Evidently, you misunderstood the point regarding adult members who are just now experiencing the joy of "second childhood" -- the "programmed, rhythmic joy" of hand clapping in a non-clapping congregation. [LOL ... you don't have to wait until "worship" time to do this. Have you tried doing it in the mall or even in the privacy of your own home?]

It's fine by me if:

        (a) rhythmic, programmed joy of handclapping
                ---------------- VERSUS ----------------
        (b) the natural, spontaneous expression of real joy

.. is the only item you're prepared to discuss at the moment.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 23rd, 2011, 6:16 pm #7

Singing with music is "sinful" except when people in the Old Testament did it for several hundred years, but God then abruptly changed his mind, which is obviously communicated in the New Testament.

Praise Teams are "sinful." There is actually some confusion in the ranks of ultra-conservatism on this one here at Concerned Members, as it was expressed about a year ago by Brother Ken Sublett here at CM that it is okay for four men at the Inner-City Church of Christ in Tennessee to stand and sing with mics. So there is an exception for this congregation.


That's a lie: God said that the imagination of man is only evil continually. I have never said aything about an Inner-City Church of Christ in Tennessee."

Maybe I was giving consent to 4 males making love to their phallic symbols in a GAY CLUB making "symphony" be forcing all of the bodies to gyrate in harmony with the pesudo-goddesses. She is the "Babylon mother of harlots" in Rev 17, using lusted after "fruits" in Revelation 18 as speakers, singers and instrument players DECLARED by Christ to be SORCERERS who will be (have been) cast alive into the lake of fire. You remember the ACU professor calling for God's fire to fall as well as the ZOE group: the performing INCENTER or song starter is defined as the IGNIS or fire starter.

Hand Clapping is pseudo body drumming or beating on the tabret another name for hell. It is ALWAYS orchestrate by the CLAPPERS and the intention is to AFFIRM the worship minister and as a violent act of boasting superiority that WE ARE NOT IN CHARGE--YOU ARE THE LOOSERS.

Jesus said that the kingdom does not come with OBSERVATION because it is IN YOU. No PhDuh or preacher grasps that Jesus said "the kingdom of God will not come to YOUR religious obsservations. Jesus defined these as laded burdens (songs) imposed by burden laders. Paul says that they are the product of those STRONGLY DECEIVED by God Himself and the imposed Lying Wonders are "religious services using the hypocritic arts claiming that they come from God." Since they do not, Christ in Jeremiah 23 says that you BLASPHEME the Holy Spirit (Christ).

http://www.piney.com/Luke.17.Kingdom.No ... ation.html

The word "clap" as condemned in the Hebrew and Greek was to SHOW CONTEMPT for the speaker. In Hebrew the word "clap" also means "vomit. "

"CLAQUE, an organized body of persons who, either for hire or other motives, band together to applaud or deride a performance and thereby attempt to influence the audience.

"Historically the claque (Fr. claquer, "to clap") is a very old institution, dating back to the performance in the theatre of Dionysus at Athens. Menander was frequently defeated by Philemon in the comedy competitions (Call them sermons), not by virtue of any superiority in the latter's plays but because

Philemon swayed the decision of the judges by infiltrating the audience with claques.

Under the Roman empire claques were common in the theatres and law courts, and flatterers and legacy hunters would often serve as claqueurs at private performances sponsored by wealthy patrons of the arts. The emperor Nero established a school of applause (Note: He had no real talent and he would burn down the old to establish the new while playing his harp) and was followed on his concert tours by a claque of 5,000 knights and soldiers. In France during the 18th century the chevalier de la Morliere and the poetaster Dorat organized claques to support plays by themselves and others.


On the extreme other hand, the Amen is from the Hebrew which does not participate in "the idolatry of talent" but first understands and then quietly endorses the message and is a pledge to "turn to the right." None of this is present in the applause for human talent:

Amen (h543) aw-mane'; from 539; sure; abstr. faithfulness; adv. truly: - Amen, so be it, truth.

Aman (h539) aw-man'; a prim. root; prop. to build up or support; to foster as a parent or nurse; fig. to render (or be) firm or faithful, to trust or believe,

to be permanent or quiet; morally to be true or certain; once (Isa. 30:21; by interchange for 541) to go to the right hand: - hence assurance, believe, bring up, establish, be faithful (of long continuance, stedfast, sure, surely, trusty, verified), nurseing father, put trust, turn to the right.


Justin Martyr Wrote:

http://www.piney.com/FathJustinDiaTrypho.html

Ye who come to the evil day, who are approaching, and who hold to false Sabbaths; who lie on beds of ivory, and are at ease upon their couches; who eat the lambs out of the flock, and the sucking calves out of the midst of the herd;

who applaud at the sound of the musical instruments; they reckon them as stable, and not as fleeting,

who drink wine in bowls, and anoint themselves with the chief ointments, but they are not grieved for the affliction of Joseph.

Wherefore now they shall be captives, among the first of the nobles who are carried away; and the house of evil-doers shall be removed, and the neighing of horses shall be taken away from Ephraim.'


Neither Sonny, most preachers and NO "scholars" who have stolen the Bible Colleges can answer:

What is a Disciple?
What does a Disciple do when they attend an assembly?
What is the directly commanded and exclusive teaching resource?
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on September 23rd, 2011, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

September 23rd, 2011, 8:27 pm #8

If an individual has been searching for truth, he or she has come to the right place by discovering the concerned members of the Madison Church of Christ internet page. One will learn the following unequivocal truths while visiting and reading:

"Change Agents" are "sinful." Churches of Christ without them are both united and growing, and those with them are divided and dying.

Singing with music is "sinful" except when people in the Old Testament did it for several hundred years, but God then abruptly changed his mind, which is obviously communicated in the New Testament.

Celebrating birthdays is "sinful" in a church building but not in a home with Christians gathered, unless they worship and then even a closing prayer would not save you. However, choruses from Christian colleges and universities can sing at a church assembly at a building on a Sunday night after a dismissal prayer. God leaves the building after the prayer as the singing is not worship but entertainment.

Maybe singing happy birthday at a potluck would be okay Brother Crump?

God cannot let children clap while singing slide. It cannot slide because it - yes - clapping - is "sinful," and those children are in darkness and despair. God did not call clapping in the Old Testament a sin, but understand that He abruptly changed his mind by not mentioning it in the New Testament, which "clearly and unequivocally" conveys that it is now "sinful."

Praise Teams are "sinful." There is actually some confusion in the ranks of ultra-conservatism on this one here at Concerned Members, as it was expressed about a year ago by Brother Ken Sublett here at CM that it is okay for four men at the Inner-City Church of Christ in Tennessee to stand and sing with mics. So there is an exception for this congregation.

(Let the attacks begin...)
We here at Concerned Members will continue to be consistent and unwaivering in our stand for the truth (our version).

-Sonny Elliot
Donnie said "But just in case it is true that "many" of your messages have not been published, feel free to append them below..."

Is that your Clinton-like way of saying 'I did it but you can't prove it so I didn't really do it!?!"
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 23rd, 2011, 8:49 pm #9

[color=#0000FF" size="blue" face="times]Dave,

You're apparently having a difficult time proving to me and to the readers that I have deleted MANY or any of your messages.

You've just begun your attempt at deviating from the issues at hand. What else is new?[/color]
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

September 23rd, 2011, 10:45 pm #10

Donnie said "But just in case it is true that "many" of your messages have not been published, feel free to append them below..."

Is that your Clinton-like way of saying 'I did it but you can't prove it so I didn't really do it!?!"
So Donnie gave Dave the opportunity to repost those "many" (or any) messages that were allegedly deleted, yet all Dave does is protest that his messages were allegedly deleted. If Dave won't repost them, it means one of two things: (1) Dave realizes his "many" (or any) messages were very un-Christ-like to begin with; OR (2) the messages never existed in the first place.
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