Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 4th, 2010, 9:11 pm #11

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

You need to be a little more of a stickler for details. I am. Ken is very detailed; but in the above post, he even attempted to simplify it for you and others like you.

Did you pay any attention at all to the preceding paragraphs, especially the 2nd? Until you come to a fuller understanding of the origin and the original definition of "a cappella," you will just keep repeating your questions and assertions.

OK. I think that your mind needs a little refreshing for now: "A cappella" -- in the style of the Pope's falsetto-sounding CHOIR BOYS:[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]Castrato
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A castrato (Italian, plural: castrati) is a man with a singing voice equivalent to that of a soprano, mezzo-soprano, or contralto voice produced either by castration of the singer before puberty or one who, because of an endocrinological condition, never reaches sexual maturity.

Castration before puberty (or in its early stages) prevents a boy's larynx from being transformed by the normal physiological events of puberty. As a result, the vocal range of prepubescence (shared by both sexes) is largely retained, and the voice develops into adulthood in a unique way. Prepubescent castration for this purpose diminished greatly in the late 18th century and was made illegal in Italy in 1870.

As the castrato's body grew, his lack of testosterone meant that his epiphyses (bone-joints) did not harden in the normal manner. Thus the limbs of the castrati often grew unusually long, as did the bones of their ribs. This, combined with intensive training, gave them unrivalled lung-power and breath capacity. Operating through small, child-sized vocal cords, their voices were also extraordinarily flexible, and quite different from the equivalent adult female voice, as well as higher vocal ranges of the uncastrated adult male (see soprano, mezzo-soprano, alto, sopranist, countertenor and contralto). Listening to the only surviving recordings of a castrato (see below), one can hear that the lower part of the voice sounds like a "super-high" tenor, with a more falsetto-like upper register above that.


More at this link --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato [/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]As you can see, there is more to "a cappella" music than simply non-instrumental.

Ken has clearly demonstrated the distinction between:[/color]
(a) The Pope's CHOIR BOYS or the progressive church's PRAISE TEAM [or Baptist CHOIR or Mormon Tabernacle CHOIR]

--------------------- versus ------------------------

(b) Congregational singing.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The PRAISE TEAM of elite singers sing and perform to/for the congregation.

The "Worship Leader's" PRAISE TEAM encourages the congregants to listen to or watch a "religious" performance. Rather than truly understanding "How Excellent Is Thy Name, O Lord," what is effected is the congregation applauding, "How Excellent Is the Performance of the PRAISE TEAM."

On the other hand, congregational singing encourages participation of members to "let the word of Christ dwell in you richly ... teaching and admonishing ONE ANOTHER in ... songs."[/color]
Click on

http://www.acappella.org/

then Click to listen to the "Only God" preview. These people were "congenitally" as described in Donnie's post. If they have HONED the method it is a fact that you can force your range upward and it cannot be toned down. Maybe toasting will help as they are also performing SORCERY as it intends to alter your brain through external means.

See my Reviews on the Tulsa Workshop; I have posted the 2011 in advance. The preacher who made it into an UNITY forum with the NACC has been gone. Has tried to set up his own congregation and his co founders won't invite people so it has been aborted.

http://www.piney.com/TulsaWorkshop.html

An e-mail from 2004 Tulsa Workout: "Ashamed October 12 2004, 5:47 PM

I am from the Tulsa area, and attended the workshop for the first time this past year. Mr. Lancaster was leading singing the night I was there. All I can say is I actualy was embarrased by the actions on stage. I can't for the life of me imagine how our leaders seem to think they are more important than they really are. People a Song leader aka worship leader is not there for our amusement (entertainment) If I wanted to be entertained I would go somewhere else. It is a song leaders job to start the song and get the CONGREGATION into an active worship. It seems like some of these guys think we should just sit back and let them perform. The dancing actualy made me blush in embarasment. I actualy thought to myself Man I hope nobody I know sees me here, and Man I'm glad I didn't invite anyone to go with me to this. What a absolute tragedy.

I'll take my small congregation of singers over you and your praise team any day of the week and twice (literally) on Sunday.

As for those of you who have dealt with these problems on a daily basis. I'm sorry for you, and I pray God gives you strength.


The ACappella Fellas (as opposed to congregational singing) but a DECEPTIVE hiding of their Faranella farce, do not sing with the voice-only.

The PERSONA which is universal is why up to half of the OWNERS flee from their own friends and property: if you are an ENABLER then I hope you wear yellow ribbons in your hair. God says they will burn.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 4th, 2010, 9:58 pm #12

So... you are saying people can be forgiven (if they repent) for adultery, homosexuality, murder, etc. (any sin) but not for worshipping God acappella?

As far as I know, this is NOT what [... (d.c.)] any other Church of Christ preacher or elder in the past 200 years has taught from Scripture.

I thought that SURELY I was misreading Mr. Sublett's comments, but after rereading it, I don't think I am, but maybe I am.

-Sonny
You don't know any preacher from the last 50 years who knows WHAT a cappella.

As part of the hireling-changeling Frog Boiling opperation they invented the word ACappella so that the dumblings would not know the code word.

They convinced everying that congregational singing was ACappella (not a cappella, castrato).

Then, they could set up ACapella Worship Teams and tell everyone that WE don't do instruments: we are just like you doing congregational singing.

What not even the ACappella Fellas may have known being STRONGLY DELUDED was that the word they have tried to bury like a dead sunk is SPECIFICIALLY used to define;

A musical worship team or small group
Singing ACappella or pseudo- a cappella and falsetto as wannabe castratos and seen as bisexual
They perform ORGANUM or 'After the pipe organ" because harmony didn't exist until the monks (smile) began to fiddle around with the organ keys

ACappella as 'selling the free water of the word' even does a VOCAL BAND where they make lots of farting noises and gyrate like monkeys on top of a grinding organ.

So, when the INSTRUMENTALISTS were seen to be ABUSED and SILENCED by the Bible Literate (the purple hairs they prayed would die or leave), Pepperdine has become a DYNAMIC PROMOTER OF ACAPPELLA and even brought in the Mennonite team.

But, what they are promoting is MUSICAL PERFORMANCE and not teaching the Word of God.

In the patternism of CONFLICT RESOLUTION they have had to fall back and compromise with ACappella as a legalistic end run around singing as TEACHING what CHIRST commanded to be taught.
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Dave
Dave

November 5th, 2010, 4:25 am #13

Click on

http://www.acappella.org/

then Click to listen to the "Only God" preview. These people were "congenitally" as described in Donnie's post. If they have HONED the method it is a fact that you can force your range upward and it cannot be toned down. Maybe toasting will help as they are also performing SORCERY as it intends to alter your brain through external means.

See my Reviews on the Tulsa Workshop; I have posted the 2011 in advance. The preacher who made it into an UNITY forum with the NACC has been gone. Has tried to set up his own congregation and his co founders won't invite people so it has been aborted.

http://www.piney.com/TulsaWorkshop.html

An e-mail from 2004 Tulsa Workout: "Ashamed October 12 2004, 5:47 PM

I am from the Tulsa area, and attended the workshop for the first time this past year. Mr. Lancaster was leading singing the night I was there. All I can say is I actualy was embarrased by the actions on stage. I can't for the life of me imagine how our leaders seem to think they are more important than they really are. People a Song leader aka worship leader is not there for our amusement (entertainment) If I wanted to be entertained I would go somewhere else. It is a song leaders job to start the song and get the CONGREGATION into an active worship. It seems like some of these guys think we should just sit back and let them perform. The dancing actualy made me blush in embarasment. I actualy thought to myself Man I hope nobody I know sees me here, and Man I'm glad I didn't invite anyone to go with me to this. What a absolute tragedy.

I'll take my small congregation of singers over you and your praise team any day of the week and twice (literally) on Sunday.

As for those of you who have dealt with these problems on a daily basis. I'm sorry for you, and I pray God gives you strength.


The ACappella Fellas (as opposed to congregational singing) but a DECEPTIVE hiding of their Faranella farce, do not sing with the voice-only.

The PERSONA which is universal is why up to half of the OWNERS flee from their own friends and property: if you are an ENABLER then I hope you wear yellow ribbons in your hair. God says they will burn.
Again, the proof is in the pudding......Ken said...."Congregational singing is NOT a cappella but in the words of Paul, fools love to be fooled."

He didn't mean castrato, or praise team, or music or choir directors, he said CONGREGATIONAL SINGING>
There is your detail.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 5th, 2010, 5:35 am #14

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

I'm sorry that you've limited yourself to your narrow definition of "a cappella" without any regard whatsoever for its origin and history.

The "PRAISE TEAM" -- certainly falls in the "a cappella" category based on its true origin and history. The "Baptist CHOIR" falls in that category, too; as well as the "Mormon Tabernacle CHOIR, the Pope's CHOIR BOYS.

NONE of the above is congregational singing.

Seriously: Would you consider the Pope's "a cappella" CHOIR BOYS congregational singing. Yes? No?

Would you consider the "a cappella" Mormon Tabernacle CHOIR congregational singing? Yes? No?

The illustration I showed you earlier was simple (here it is again):[/color]
[color=#FF0000" size="5" face="times]The Pope's a cappella CHOIR BOYS or
The progressive church's a cappella PRAISE TEAM or
The a cappella Baptist CHOIR or
The a cappella Mormon Tabernacle CHOIR

--------------------- versus ------------------------

Congregational singing.[/color]
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Scotty
Scotty

November 5th, 2010, 1:38 pm #15

Here is my thought:

NO, unless the person who spread the sordid tale repented, apologized to the person he wronged, and retracted all his previous statements about that person who had been wronged.
Bill,

The information Sonny presented is true. It just happens to be truth that Donnie does not want repeated here. Itbis his website and his right to decide what can be discussed and what cannot be. But does not change the truth into an untruth.

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Donnie
Donnie

November 5th, 2010, 3:21 pm #16

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]What's that saying?[/color]
"He who carries a 'tale' makes a monkey of himself."
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

November 5th, 2010, 4:02 pm #17

Just because Sonny says something is "true" does not make it "true." Just because Scotty chooses to believe Sonny's tale does not make the tale "true." Many believed the "tale" that the world would end in the year 1000 and then in the year 2000. It never did. The "tale" was not true at all.

The saying Donnie gave is a play on the homophones "tail" and "tale." Monkeys and asses both have tails. Perhaps a more colorful variation of that saying should include the following wording, "He who carries a 'tale' makes an ass of himself."

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Dave
Dave

November 5th, 2010, 4:10 pm #18

Again, the proof is in the pudding......Ken said...."Congregational singing is NOT a cappella but in the words of Paul, fools love to be fooled."

He didn't mean castrato, or praise team, or music or choir directors, he said CONGREGATIONAL SINGING>
There is your detail.
Donnie,
What type of singing do you do with the Madison traditional service? I ask even though I know what it is already. It is considered CONGREGATIONAL singing.
Let's go back to Ken's statement again.
He said...."Congregational singing is NOT a cappella but in the words of Paul, fools love to be fooled."

He didn't preface that with praise teams, nor choirs. nor worship directors, etc., etc.

He meant congregational singing, a capella four part harmony, the same type of singing that you took part in Sunday at Madison.
Yes, Donnie, we know that Ken doesn't like praise teams or instrumental music, or whatever. HOWEVER, when he makes a blanket statement like he did, he speaks of ANY singing as sinful. End of story.
I have already responded before with other comments from Ken that showed that Ken is against ALL singing. He believes, and has so stated himself, that singing was no more than 'SPEAKING that which is written.' If it involves actual singing, and words outside the Scriptures, then he has said that it is wrong.
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Donnie
Donnie

November 5th, 2010, 5:52 pm #19

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

If you really want to know about the types [not "type"] of singing at Madison, here it is:

(1) The "worship services" of the "Traditional" [eldership-designated] division does congregational singing ONLY.

(2) The "worship services" of the "Contemporary" [eldership-designated] division does "Praise Team" singing AND congregational singing BOTH.

I stress "division" because that was the end result of the Change Agents' original attempt to transform the once-peaceful and growing Madison congregation into a mega Community Church. The attempt or the scheme, rather, which was culture-driven, to "grow the church" failed. Although instrumental music might have been a part of the scheme in later stages, the installation of the "PRAISE TEAM" at the time was "the straw that broke the camel's back." The elders were divided. The membership was divided as well: members left in droves to seek fellowship somewhere else.

So, now, you can see that to accommodate the "needs" of the divided membership, the elders designated such labels as "traditional" and "contemporary."

All that division primarily because of the Praise Team controversy?

O.K. I'll be brief on this one: One Sunday recently, there was a female soloist from the Praise Team that did a solo performance in the midst of the observance of the Lord's Supper. (I consider myself focused in dealing with a serious matter at any given moment. But guess what? I wasn't exactly focused this time. I should have prayed: "Lord, forgive me for being distracted at the moment by such a very beautiful singing voice.") Hopefully, you now understand the performance issue involving the unnecessary and extraneous "services" of the Praise Team.

Actually, in the "contemporary" division, in addition to the Praise Team, there is also the non-Praise Team called the "regular" congregation. Unfortunately, congregational singing is dying or at least diminishing as the Praise Team [with their handheld microphones] is dominating and overpowering the singing of the regular guys. [Maybe, each member of the congregation should have an individual microphone as well?????]

You might argue that there is still congregational singing in the contemporary group.

You're partly correct. There is congregational singing in the contemporary group. To complete the confusing puzzle, you must consider, and you know it, that there is also the Praise Team singing. In fact, there are times when only the Praise Team performs while the congregation shuts up.

In essence, the "a cappella" Praise Team is not "the congregation." If the PT members want to be part of the congregation, they should act like regular members of the congregation.[/color]
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Scotty
Scotty

November 5th, 2010, 8:49 pm #20

Just because Sonny says something is "true" does not make it "true." Just because Scotty chooses to believe Sonny's tale does not make the tale "true." Many believed the "tale" that the world would end in the year 1000 and then in the year 2000. It never did. The "tale" was not true at all.

The saying Donnie gave is a play on the homophones "tail" and "tale." Monkeys and asses both have tails. Perhaps a more colorful variation of that saying should include the following wording, "He who carries a 'tale' makes an ass of himself."

Sonny said he knows first hand of what he spoke. I also have spoken to former family members who should know. Denying the past truth does not make it untrue. The only reason the truth is denied here is that it involves one whose opinion you value more than you value the truth of the past.

This all remands me of a former friend who left their spouse, publicly slandered and bore false witness against their former spouse, but when they left the church of Christ and moved to a sabbatarian church, the sabbatarians ignored the sin because this person was now one of their own.

You can choose to deny or ignore the sin because you like what someone teaches. Or you can know the person by their actions.
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