Greetings

Greetings

Joined: November 30th, 2017, 11:49 pm

December 4th, 2017, 6:23 pm #1

Seasonal and general greetings to all on this forum.I am dipping a toe in as a newbie to Studebakers, although not to old cars in general. My wife, also an enthusiastic old car/truck nut, and I have recently acquired a 1950 2R5, with the hope of using it to tow our 1948 travel trailer, which weighs about 2900 lbs. The 170 six starts and runs fine, with decent compression, but lays down a fog as it moves from a stop. Are these engines prone to premature valve guide wear, or is this just a tired engine? No history is available.
I thought a swap to a 239 would be an improvement without compromising authenticity too much, but the weight of these V8s seems excessive. Is this a difficult or ill-advised swap? Is a SBC or SBF preferable?
Thanks for any insight you may be willing to impart.
Dave
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Joined: December 28th, 2014, 12:51 am

December 4th, 2017, 8:15 pm #2

Have u pulled your trailer with the 170 ? If so did it perform satisfactory for u ? If so I would just rebuild what u have .
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Joined: November 30th, 2017, 11:49 pm

December 4th, 2017, 8:50 pm #3

The truck doesn't even have a hitch yet. I'm just trying to settle on a plan and wondered if others have had experience towing.
Dave
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Joined: January 9th, 2017, 5:07 am

December 4th, 2017, 9:14 pm #4

you'll find the 170 to be undersized to haul a 2900# trailer, especially if you plan on being on any highways, and not just country roads.

Not sure what you mean by decent compression, numbers would help. Book calls for 105 psi. Oil burning can be from several issues.

I have not done any conversions to V8s, but others here have, and will chime in.

I like the 170 for my M5 and we are doing an extensive overhaul to include bigger intakes, better cam, HC head, etc.

Ted Jensen on this forum is a high quality engine builder, he is in NY, not sure where you are located. but you might talk to him, just post up a query to him, he is a regular board reader
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Joined: October 12th, 2014, 8:14 pm

December 4th, 2017, 9:43 pm #5

Seasonal and general greetings to all on this forum.I am dipping a toe in as a newbie to Studebakers, although not to old cars in general. My wife, also an enthusiastic old car/truck nut, and I have recently acquired a 1950 2R5, with the hope of using it to tow our 1948 travel trailer, which weighs about 2900 lbs. The 170 six starts and runs fine, with decent compression, but lays down a fog as it moves from a stop. Are these engines prone to premature valve guide wear, or is this just a tired engine? No history is available.
I thought a swap to a 239 would be an improvement without compromising authenticity too much, but the weight of these V8s seems excessive. Is this a difficult or ill-advised swap? Is a SBC or SBF preferable?
Thanks for any insight you may be willing to impart.
Dave
Agree with Texas Dave. The 170 will not be able to pull a trailer. Anything else you can salvage would be a bonus.
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Joined: October 12th, 2014, 8:14 pm

December 4th, 2017, 10:26 pm #6

Which was that the installation of a Stude V8 in your truck would be MUCH easier if you had a V8 parts truck to swap parts from. There are lots of items that are different, including radiator, motor mounts, clutch and throttle linkage, trans input shaft, front springs, drive shaft length, etc. A rusty V8 parts truck might cost a few hundred dollars, but would save you a lot in learning, parts, and fabrication.
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Joined: October 14th, 2014, 11:13 pm

December 4th, 2017, 11:12 pm #7

Seasonal and general greetings to all on this forum.I am dipping a toe in as a newbie to Studebakers, although not to old cars in general. My wife, also an enthusiastic old car/truck nut, and I have recently acquired a 1950 2R5, with the hope of using it to tow our 1948 travel trailer, which weighs about 2900 lbs. The 170 six starts and runs fine, with decent compression, but lays down a fog as it moves from a stop. Are these engines prone to premature valve guide wear, or is this just a tired engine? No history is available.
I thought a swap to a 239 would be an improvement without compromising authenticity too much, but the weight of these V8s seems excessive. Is this a difficult or ill-advised swap? Is a SBC or SBF preferable?
Thanks for any insight you may be willing to impart.
Dave
Much as I love the little Champion engines, 2900 lbs is too much to tow on a regular basis... it's iffy even for the rare tow.

I would try and find a complete V8 swap, the old transmission won't hold up. Plan on possibly changing the diff as well, depending on what ratio you have, 6's often had a very high numeric ratio that makes highway cruising impossible.

I know it becomes tempting to put the cab and bed on an S10 frame at this point, but if you can, keep it all Studebaker. I'd appreciate it!
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Joined: January 9th, 2017, 5:07 am

December 4th, 2017, 11:30 pm #8

we are warming up the 170 that came with this M5. I want the truck to keep its soul.

Even when we are done with this particular 170, it won't have the guts to haul a ton and 1/2 trailer
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Joined: November 30th, 2017, 11:49 pm

December 5th, 2017, 1:39 am #9

for the information, thoughtful suggestions and comments. I am a national judge for another car club and can certainly appreciate keeping the truck as original as possible. In reality, we will probably only use it to tow short distances for local events, and tow the trailer with a modern when we travel any distance. The truck has a very low final drive ratio, but I was given a Borg Warner OD trans with it. If I recall correctly that is a 30% overdrive, so with it I may be able to keep up with traffic for short hauls.
Dave
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Joined: October 29th, 2014, 2:42 am

December 5th, 2017, 3:58 am #10

Seasonal and general greetings to all on this forum.I am dipping a toe in as a newbie to Studebakers, although not to old cars in general. My wife, also an enthusiastic old car/truck nut, and I have recently acquired a 1950 2R5, with the hope of using it to tow our 1948 travel trailer, which weighs about 2900 lbs. The 170 six starts and runs fine, with decent compression, but lays down a fog as it moves from a stop. Are these engines prone to premature valve guide wear, or is this just a tired engine? No history is available.
I thought a swap to a 239 would be an improvement without compromising authenticity too much, but the weight of these V8s seems excessive. Is this a difficult or ill-advised swap? Is a SBC or SBF preferable?
Thanks for any insight you may be willing to impart.
Dave
Boomer; the guys here have given you good advice. Regardless what the reason for the fog is the little Champion engine is not going to do what you are hoping.
If you wish to discuss this more my e address is studepickups at optonline dot net. I can send you pictures of the conversion you are discussing. Skip's advice on a parts truck is good but you need to be sure the parts truck has a V8. The other item necessary is to be sure your truck has the K front frame or adding a V8 requires a lot more work.
Putting an automatic behind a Studebaker engine also really makes a nice truck.
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Joined: January 9th, 2017, 5:07 am

December 5th, 2017, 5:46 am #11

for the information, thoughtful suggestions and comments. I am a national judge for another car club and can certainly appreciate keeping the truck as original as possible. In reality, we will probably only use it to tow short distances for local events, and tow the trailer with a modern when we travel any distance. The truck has a very low final drive ratio, but I was given a Borg Warner OD trans with it. If I recall correctly that is a 30% overdrive, so with it I may be able to keep up with traffic for short hauls.
Dave
try to find a good home for the 170 Champion motor.
They are well built motors. The bottom end is nearly indestructible. Racers boosted them and could not blow them up
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Joined: May 15th, 2006, 9:58 pm

December 5th, 2017, 5:15 pm #12

Seasonal and general greetings to all on this forum.I am dipping a toe in as a newbie to Studebakers, although not to old cars in general. My wife, also an enthusiastic old car/truck nut, and I have recently acquired a 1950 2R5, with the hope of using it to tow our 1948 travel trailer, which weighs about 2900 lbs. The 170 six starts and runs fine, with decent compression, but lays down a fog as it moves from a stop. Are these engines prone to premature valve guide wear, or is this just a tired engine? No history is available.
I thought a swap to a 239 would be an improvement without compromising authenticity too much, but the weight of these V8s seems excessive. Is this a difficult or ill-advised swap? Is a SBC or SBF preferable?
Thanks for any insight you may be willing to impart.
Dave
Yes, back in the bad old days, these little puppies were working trucks, so I know first hand a 170" in as-new condition will pull a 2900# trailer; just slowly and dangerously if in today's urban or interstate traffic. Make sure the trailer brakes are connected and working well, leave early for your destination and look well ahead.

No, I wouldn't do it today.

Maybe, evaluate the engine condition and drive it a while before making any decisions. Champions smoke because they all have valve guide wear and worse yet, lifter bore wear. From 1939 on, Studebaker Engineering knew the weaknesses, but didn't fix the problem. Parts Department stocked .001" and .005" oversize lifters and a special reamer. Those are now NLA. If we ever get in another Champion to rebuild, we'll experiment with bronze bushings for the lifter bores. We have developed a method of installing positive seals on the valve guides, which also help with the oil burning. Neither fix is easy or inexpensive, but it is preferable to pretending the problem isn't there.

jack vines
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Joined: July 11th, 2017, 1:50 am

December 7th, 2017, 2:35 am #13

Thirty years ago I had a Champion powered t cab. It was in good mechanical condition and could beat a 396 Chevelle off the line (until I had to shift out of creeper gear).

There was an concrete outfit in town (25 miles) that would sell you a yard of concrete in a special trailer that had a mixer in it geared to the wheels to keep the concrete agitated.

My house had a dirt floor crawlspace that was a rodent playground, and a friend and I were going to pour a slab in it. The crawlspace was so low that the mice were
hunchbacked, and the plan was to bring the concrete in in 5 gallon buckets.

It was July, hot and humid. We got the trailer hooked up at the plant, and the little Champion would only do 45 mph with my foot flat on the floor. The water temp
was climbing ominously when we reached home, and the concrete was beginning to stiffen. Frantic activity ensued. The trailer got emptied, the 'crete was so stiff that
the slab had less than an ideal finish, and two exhausted men returned the trailer minutes before closing.

From then on it has been 289s and T-89s in my trucks.
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Joined: October 15th, 2014, 1:19 am

December 7th, 2017, 9:09 pm #14

I hear you on the 289's and T-89's, with you on that. Although, a nice 259 isn't a bad option either in a pinch for normal duty work, even a Big 6 if you have the time.

The crawl space in my house needs the same treatment. Your story reminds me of why I haven't bit the bullet and done it yet. Think I will just pay someone else with better knees and backs to do it at some point - and their own truck and gear.
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