Jonno's Character Con-j-ectures

Discuss various ideas, news, and otherwise for the upcoming Super Smash Bros. 4, planned to be released on Wii U and 3DS, albeit under some different formatting!

Jonno's Character Con-j-ectures

Jonno
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Jonno
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007, 20:48

12 Aug 2011, 23:15 #1

Just got done on Skype talking about this, so I figured, "Why not post this on Mercurious?" ;D

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Toad
Paper Mario

Yoshi

Wario

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool

Link
Zelda/Shiek
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Vaati
Tingle

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Zoroark

Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Fox McCloud
Falco Lombardi
Wolf O'Donnell
Krystal

Marth
Ike
Caeda

Isaac or Matthew

Takamaru

Ness
Lucas
Masked Man

Samus Aran/Zero Suit Samus

Olimar

Ice Climbers

Pit

Captain Falcon

Lip

R.O.B.

Mr. Game & Watch

Sonic

Snake

Ryu

Black Mage

Travis Touchdown

Mii

Total: 52
17+ characters from Brawl, which is reasonable enough all-considering Sakurai has already said he wanted to boost the roster size "considerably"
35 > 52 is "considerable"

Any questions anyone has may be brought up right hur, but for now, here's some of the basics:

Misc. Reasons Behind My Roster

- Sakurai just - can't - get Geno in; Square-Enix is a stingy company in their PR department, but the PR rep suggests perhaps contacting the Square or Enix development department directly for something along the lines of a "better Square-Enix company representative", and they settle on Black Mage, the most-requested S-E character behind... Chocobo, who becomes an assist trophy. :}

- Mii's are an obvious inclusion by now, I think. WuHu Island would be their ostensible home stage. d:

- Mega Man is being treated like sh333t, so God forbid Capcom do something that could boost his popularity again. With Capcom's focus on fighting game orgies as of late, Ryu, their clear fighting mascot, is included over the Blue Bomber.

- Unless Kojima magically says "I don't want him in", Snake is so returning alongside Sonic, especially since Snake was such a unique character.

- Lip for the Retro WTF character, ftw.

- Nintendo focuses mainly on Mario, obviously, so so does the roster size of the big 3, with the "big" Super Mario series trumping Zelda by 1 character and Pokemon by 2, though Pokemon technically has the upper-hand on both with Pokemon Trainer's 3 Pokemon, giving it an up on Mario by 1. This kinda-sorta reflects the sales of the Big 3 in the order of sales: Pokemon, Mario, Zelda. Always and forever Nintendo's big million sellers.

- F-Zero just doesn't deserve another rep, and chances are if it did get a rep by now, it'd be someone like Deathborn or Black Shadow. MEH. Just work on buffing Falcon.

- Paper, Bowser Jr., and Toad sound like likely inclusions, yes? Well, they're all in. Bang. And I highly, HIGHLY doubt Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario will be clones of Bowser or Mario. Unlike with Link and Young Link/Toon Link, that wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to make two ENTIRELY unique characters, well, un-unique. Why not just give Diddy DK's moveset if we're thinking Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario would be clones?

- King K. Rool over Dixie or Funky. SRSLY.

- Wario, at this point, just doesn't need a new rep. He could have one, but he doesn't NEED one, and I doubt Sakurai will throw one in right after the Wario series' Smash debut, either.

- Yoshi's never getting jacksh3333333t aside from himself and a couple of stages (and a Poochy AT or cameo of some sort if Heaven does indeed exist). Kamek or HUGE AZZ BABY BOWSER have potential boss/stage hazard material.

- As much as I'd love a rep for The Last Story, it's not gonna happen. Nor will Pandora's Tower or Xenoblade get a rep, considering neither of these games have sold like wildfire in the regions they've been released in thus far, hence the whole Operation Rainfall vs. Nintendo thing right now. The company just doesn't want to lose money, even if they could afford it, and sales, as far as modern games or series go, do count for characters in Smash, hence why I gave the Big 3 the biggest roster sizes, and hence why they've always had the biggest roster sizes in the game.

- Isaac and Matthew are generally interchangeable. Whichever doesn't make it as playable can take over that stupid "Move!" assist.

- FE 12 and 13 are both remakes of the Archanea games. Caeda kills two birds with one stone by being both a dayum important female rep and a lance-user. She's now my most-wanted new FE character.

- If not Caeda, then the new FE rep, if ANYONE, considering Ike and Marth, arguably the series' two biggest, are already involved, will be from FE1 or FE3, because the Archanea arc is by FAR the most popular FE saga in Japan, spawning two DS remakes now, and I'd be banking it on Camus, who can sort-of be taken as an "original" Black Knight, in that he fights Marth and company, though does so with honor, and has been in five games now if you count the two remakes, making him the one in-story character (thus excluding Anna) to appear more than twice in any given game. He is also a lance user, thus give him some credibility... and hey, he isn't blue-haired, either! ;D

- Roy is gone and, frankly, I dunno if he's ever coming back. I'm well aware of the possibility, and it could very well happen this time around and I'd welcome him with open arms, but I'm also all for new possibilities with Fire Emblem characters. While important to the Elibe saga... Well, I just find it improbable to expect anyone from the GBA games, or the Sigurd saga by now. Why? Essentially what I said just above and below this particular hyphen-started subject matter.

- To say FE NEEDS to rep its GBA game or any currently un-repped saga in the form of a playable character is ridiculous. Just look at playable Pokemon in Smash, five of them are from Gen 1.

- Masked Man is the clear choice now for a unique Mother rep. Someone like Flint or Duster, unfortunately I don't see making it in. Porky is possible, though in my opinion unlikely; he's much more effective in his Safe Capsule as a boss, even in SSB4. Kumatora is the only other one possible when compared to Masked Man, though Masked Man would just be more unique a rep than Kumatora now, since the PSI users in SSB have pretty similar, albeit Luigi-fied movesets. I LOVE Kumatora's character, but she would be unexciting in retrospect as a character in Smash. The perfect inclusion? Pig Mask Man or New Age Retro Hippie. (; But that isn't happening SOOOO

- Sakurai's already said he doesn't think an Animal Crossing character would work as a playable in Smash, so that's a no-go, despite anyone's wanting Nook or anyone from that series in.

- I was REALLY tempted to remove someone for Professor Layton but just couldn't do it in the end. As much as I want him, he'll likely end up as an Assist Trophy instead. I would LOVE to be proven wrong here and have him in as playable, though! Since this is based mainly off of the Wii U version... Maybe this can happen in the 3DS version... Even then, though. I have no idea what they'd do for him... but then again, they came up with moves for Fox and Captain Falcon, right?

- Give Ganondorf his Phantom Ganon-esque magic blast move from OoT as his standard and give him his sword to FINALLY make a deservedly unique character... unique.

- Make Toon Link de-cloned. I don't care if it makes sense to keep him a clone, but seriously, MAKE HIM ORIGINAL. He has all the items there that I only in HIS games! Do something, SORA!

- Toad better not suck.

- I'm under firm belief that everyone who's an AT, with the exception of Tingle, who's important enough and has lots of merit as a unique, goofy character despite your personal feelings towards him, and MAYBE Isaac if they don't shaft him for Matthew, will remain assists. This means no Lyn or Saki, no Goroh and no Barbara.

- Takamaru takes the spot of "lolsamurai" from Lyn and Goroh, and will arguably be the most traditional samurai out of the lot of them. I'm not saying this makes him better, but it may make him more unique amongst the Smash cast.
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Knightmare
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Knightmare
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14 Aug 2011, 09:17 #2

Fantastic list! Were this the true roster for SSB4, that'd be a day one buy for me. Totally would main Ryu and Masked Man.

One little suggestion, though. Cave Story's main character, Quote. Allow me to make my case. We're getting Cave Story, remastered, on 3DS. We're also getting Smash Bros. 4 on the 3DS. What better way for Ninty to ensure that everyone buys a copy of each than to add an exclusive character to each version? Plus, 3DS Cave Story isn't the first time Cave Story has graced a Nintendo system. Cave Story was on the Wii as well, and it was remastered for the Wii. Keep in mind, these are two separate remasters. Wii Cave Story was remastered 2D sprites, 3DS Cave Story is 3D models.

Cave Story is very popular, as well. I'm certain there a quite a few people who'd know who Quote is if he was added. I know people who don't even play Nintendo games who know who Quote is. The cartoon style of Cave Story also fits very well in Smash, and the locations are instantly memorable and filled with unique landmarks that would make an excellent stage.

His fighting style is also something Smash hasn't seen before; a pistol user. Now, his gun isn't realistic and does not fire bullets, so I doubt Ninty would have a problem. It can also shoot things like lasers, bubbles, fireballs, missiles, and so much more. He also has a jetpack.


I could say more, but this post is turning into a massive rant. ...I enjoy making cases way too much.
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Jonno
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14 Aug 2011, 17:14 #3

At this point, Quote has a chance, I agree, and I'd love for him to be playable! I absolutely adore indie games such as Cave Story, La Mulana, and the Touhou Projectz, just like you do, my good man. Out of all of them, Cave Story's near the very tip-top of my favorites list, and considering the amount of exposure Quote and the cast've been getting on Nintendo systems as of late, especially with Cave Story 3D on its way near the end of the summer, it's not out of this realm of belief to think that Quote will have a chance in the game. Excellent choice! Whenever I make some revisions to this list for the "Version 2" of it, it's entirely likely that I may include Quote in it "officially".

As for who I would main? Oh man, there are so many possibilities. From the Mario series, I gotta say that I love me some Paper Mario, so he's a big possibility to slip into my top 5, and if Toon (or Young, if we revert, though I don't think we will honestly, at least not in the Wii U version) Link gets re-worked to be more unique, he might be in that list too. Those two characters represent the majority of my childhood, after all! Paper Mario and Wind Waker have... They have shaped me into the man I am today, whatever that means. (I'm entirely sure my parents, sister, best friends, teachers, and the situations around me have had no inclusion in this whatsoever. Wind Waker and Paper Mario, brofessional. Those things teach life.)

And on the flip side of things, Marth has been my main since Melee, and I didn't have one during the N64 days, so that likely won't change. He'll probably always be my number one, followed by any of the other FE characters, since I usually main all of them due to the suuuuper favoritism I grant the series. Ike'll likely remain my second main, with all of that in mind, especially since I know him as an actual character a little more than I do Marth. Given, he automatically has more of a deep subplot than Marth due to hardware limitations during the Famicom era, but I digress. Caeda? If she were included, or if anyone else from FE were included, I'd make sure to give them the special treatment as well. I'm not that excited about a Roy return as it stands, but that could change with time, especially since he's had the time to "hone his moves and create a fighting style unique to himself", or whatever excuse Sakurai will give for his being a non-clone.

Tingle would be up there on the list as well! I can't wait to potentially play as him, if only to annoy all of the Western players. q:
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metashadow555
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011, 20:30

15 Aug 2011, 18:50 #4

I would rather have megaman then ryu.

However, we can all guess what ryu's final smash would be.
That thing with the orb in his hand that turns into a beam..
Even people who don't play capcom fighting games would know that.
The main character of super mario bros is an old man dressed in red.
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Knightmare
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Knightmare
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15 Aug 2011, 22:30 #5

>that thing with the orb in his hand

>not knowing that it's called a Hadouken

>2011
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metashadow555
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07 Sep 2011, 01:13 #6

WAIT, what NES game was ryu in?? <_<
The main character of super mario bros is an old man dressed in red.
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eebit
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eebit
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08 Sep 2011, 05:18 #7

metashadow555 @ Sep 6 2011, 09:13 PM wrote: WAIT, what NES game was ryu in?? <_<
Well, the Street Fighter Ryu (who I believe Jonno is referring to in his post) appeared in an NES pirated version of Street Fighter, but other than that, he has only appeared on the SNES and later. There is, however, Ryu Hayabusa, who is the star of the Ninja Gaiden series, which began on the NES, as far as I know.
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metashadow555
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28 Sep 2011, 21:18 #8

wait, doesn't Kirby deserve another rep?
Because super smash bros gameplay was stolen from Kirby?
Because if it wasn't for kirby super smash bros would be like each character jumping on each other to do damge?
and since when does donkey kong deserve another rep? its too bad they can't remove donkey kong completley.
The main character of super mario bros is an old man dressed in red.
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eebit
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eebit
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28 Sep 2011, 21:53 #9

Kirby has three reps already. The only character that I can actually see them adding would be an all-purpose Bandanna Dee, but that would possibly require a redesign of King Dedede's moveset itself. None of the other Kirby reps seem important enough to deserve their own new character, so I'd say a new assist trophy at best for Kirby this time around.

Donkey Kong, on the other hand, has two reps. It is pretty much cemented at the core of the Big N, which gives them a little more leeway with the characters. I can't necessarily see DK getting another rep aside from Dixie or King K. Rool, but even those two are doubtful to me. Donkey Kong Country Returns sort of bolsters the franchises chances, in my opinion.
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metashadow555
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30 Sep 2011, 01:40 #10

eebit @ Sep 28 2011, 03:53 PM wrote: Kirby has three reps already. The only character that I can actually see them adding would be an all-purpose Bandanna Dee, but that would possibly require a redesign of King Dedede's moveset itself. None of the other Kirby reps seem important enough to deserve their own new character, so I'd say a new assist trophy at best for Kirby this time around.

Donkey Kong, on the other hand, has two reps. It is pretty much cemented at the core of the Big N, which gives them a little more leeway with the characters. I can't necessarily see DK getting another rep aside from Dixie or King K. Rool, but even those two are doubtful to me. Donkey Kong Country Returns sort of bolsters the franchises chances, in my opinion.
Well, i think even if there isn't a kirby rep i would be happy with 2 things:
-Galactic knight-Assist trophy
-Marx-boss
Although i think waddle dee has a big chance of making it in due to his big role in kirby64 and in the upcoming kirby game kirby's return to dreamland.

Mario gets 4 characters and kirby gets 3? THATS NOT FAIR!!!!

As long as meta knight doesen't get replaced with someone stupid like geno or waliuigi
i'll be fine.
The main character of super mario bros is an old man dressed in red.
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Jonno
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02 Oct 2011, 02:49 #11

It's entirely fa- Oh who am I kidding. You know what else is stupid? This argument. /topic
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metashadow555
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05 Oct 2011, 01:52 #12

I wasn't trying to argue :huh:
The main character of super mario bros is an old man dressed in red.
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Logilly
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28 Oct 2011, 18:59 #13

Good List over all. I know they will probably add them unfortunately <_< but all in all we know that as a character Mii's would be terrible.

I mean admit it if you played the next game and they were in there instead of an amazing character like Ridley (which I think they will do I mean they had him as a boss in brawl, and in Samus' opening in Melee, plus fans have been asking for him and they own the rights there's no reason not to put him in) you'd be upset.

I do doubt they will do Ryu though he already has Street Fighter and the Marvel vs. Capcom games I doubt they will whore him out to another fighting game I think Megaman is more likely I read somewhere they would love to see Megaman in SSB anyway.
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metashadow555
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01 Nov 2011, 19:03 #14

Logilly @ Oct 28 2011, 12:59 PM wrote: Good List over all. I know they will probably add them unfortunately&nbsp; <_<&nbsp; but all in all we know that as a character Mii's would be terrible.

I mean admit it if you played the next game and they were in there instead of an amazing character like Ridley (which I think they will do I mean they had him as a boss in brawl, and in Samus' opening in Melee, plus fans have been asking for him and they own the rights there's no reason not to put him in) you'd be upset.

I do doubt they will do Ryu though he already has Street Fighter and the Marvel vs. Capcom games I doubt they will whore him out to another fighting game I think Megaman is more likely I read somewhere they would love to see Megaman in SSB anyway.
How do you suppose ridely would work?
Wii's would be awsome to play as compared to ridley.
In fact, ridely is crap compared to mii.

GOD,IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN A CHARACTER GETS A REP AS A BOSS OR ASSIST TROPHY OR EVEN AS SMALL AS A TROPHY PEOPLE WILL WANT IT PLAYABLE I wish people were smarter
The main character of super mario bros is an old man dressed in red.
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Jonno
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01 Nov 2011, 21:19 #15

Once again, opinions. Flawed opinions, but opinions nonetheless. Learn to control yourself, metashadow. There've been people who've wanted (x) character in since 64 was announced, and Ridley was certainly one of the more popular options since even before Melee. As for Mii, I'm not saying anything for or against it, just as I'm trying to withhold personal opinions towards any other characters as well in this post since this isn't the point of this """lolargument""", though it certainly has its fanbase as well. Logilly may voice his opinion, but it isn't as... strong... and vibrant... as yours, my dear. Please fix yourself. Kthx.
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DojoTL
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DojoTL
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01 Nov 2011, 21:31 #16

metashadow555 @ Nov 1 2011, 02:03 PM wrote:
Logilly @ Oct 28 2011, 12:59 PM wrote: Good List over all. I know they will probably add them unfortunately  <_<  but all in all we know that as a character Mii's would be terrible.

I mean admit it if you played the next game and they were in there instead of an amazing character like Ridley (which I think they will do I mean they had him as a boss in brawl, and in Samus' opening in Melee, plus fans have been asking for him and they own the rights there's no reason not to put him in) you'd be upset.

I do doubt they will do Ryu though he already has Street Fighter and the Marvel vs. Capcom games I doubt they will whore him out to another fighting game I think Megaman is more likely I read somewhere they would love to see Megaman in SSB anyway.
How do you suppose ridely would work?
Wii's would be awsome to play as compared to ridley.
In fact, ridely is crap compared to mii.

GOD,IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN A CHARACTER GETS A REP AS A BOSS OR ASSIST TROPHY OR EVEN AS SMALL AS A TROPHY PEOPLE WILL WANT IT PLAYABLE I wish people were smarter
Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaah...

Control thyself man. Don't get too hot-tempered. I learned my lesson. Almost got semi-banned. Not fun. <_<
It's Moltz the Very Goonie! MWAHH HA HA HA HA!!!!
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Logilly
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02 Nov 2011, 17:22 #17

I am not arguing in the least I am just stating my opinon and you may state yours I am simply stating that in my opinon a Mii would be a comical charater at best like oh look I can play as that Mii I made isn't that cute. All there moves would be comical bits from wii sports, wii play or wii resort.

Also I am not like a super Ridley fan he just came to mind I just think Nintendo has a ton of better characters out there that they should use before they slap Mii's into SSB4.
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metashadow555
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02 Nov 2011, 20:02 #18

Logilly @ Nov 2 2011, 11:22 AM wrote: I am not arguing in the least I am just stating my opinon and you may state yours I am simply stating that in my opinon a Mii would be a comical charater at best like oh look I can play as that Mii I made isn't that cute. All there moves would be comical bits from wii sports, wii play or wii resort.

Also I am not like a super Ridley fan he just came to mind I just think Nintendo has a ton of better characters out there that they should use before they slap Mii's into SSB4.
Mabey they could put them at least priority and include the more important chars first.
The main character of super mario bros is an old man dressed in red.
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The Brawlinator
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20 Nov 2011, 18:59 #19

I like this list. :P I think Mario will only get one more representative, but all three of your newcomers would be a good fit. Seriously, Bowser Jr being a clone of Bowser would make little to no sense, but then again, Ganondorf was a clone of Captain Falcon... I guess we'll just have to hope for the best. As for Zelda, I'm not so sure about Toon Link, Vaati, and Tingle. Although they could be added for the sake of the DS (and Japan :P ) I'm not so sure it would happen. I also think Ghiriham will probably get in just because he's a major villain in Skyward Sword, which Link and Zelda will probably be based off of. Wolf Link might also get in to represent Twilight Princess. Maybe there could be a compromise, add Wolf Link to the Wii U version, and Toon Link to the 3DS version, for being important to their respective past gens. I'm also not so sure about Lucario returning, because he was there to represent the current gen Pokemon at the time, much like Pichu was in Melee. I could see Zoroark getting in, to represent the current Pokemon gen, but I think Mewtwo had a high probability of returning, because Pokemon will probably have five reps, being Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pokemon Trainer, Zoroark, and another first gen Pokemon. Who better to represent the first gen alongside the first three then Mewtwo? Finally, I think Ridley should be playable, because it is possible. They would have to decrease his size, but they had to increase the sizes of Kirby, Pikachu, Olimar, and a few others, so why not just do it backwards? :P
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metashadow555
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26 Nov 2011, 18:48 #20

t. Seriously, Bowser Jr being a clone of Bowser would make little to no sense, but then again, Ganondorf was a clone of Captain Falcon...
Sadly it's true, simply because they are going to make a clone any time they have a chance. Whenever Bowser Jr. Is a boss, it's usually a festival of shell sliding back and fourth repeatedly, so they really don't have many options, do they? The best he could get is a couple moves with a spear.
The main character of super mario bros is an old man dressed in red.
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eebit
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26 Nov 2011, 18:59 #21

Erm, Metashadow... I hope you've played Super Mario Sunshine, because that game ALONE gives more material for Bowser Jr than 'a festival of shell sliding.' The paintbrush has become completely synonymous with Bowser Jr since Sunshine (in the spinoff games, especially). That leaves plenty of room for a moveset that isn't a cloned version of Bowser, who is built as a powerhouse to slam characters around.

Look at any of the spinoff sport games; do you EVER see Bowser Jr listed in the same category as Bowser himself? No, Bowser Jr is usually Technique/Tricky, while Bowser is Power.
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The Brawlinator
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27 Nov 2011, 00:32 #22

I don't think I've ever seen Bowser Junior even breath fire actually, but I think I've seen him get in his shell. On another note, I personally think that Megaman will get in Super Smash Bros 4. I've heard that Capcom hasn't exactly given him much "gametime", but maybe that just means they've decided to make a new game featuring him instead of the old ones. I can't think of one good reason to get rid of him. They could possibly want to get rid of him to follow the path that other developers are going and make almost everything realistic and violent, but like I said, I can't think of a good reason. :P Plus, he would fit in better in Super Smash Bros than Ryu would.
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metashadow555
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27 Nov 2011, 01:42 #23

Perfect solution: ryu on 3ds version and megaman on wiiu version.
The main character of super mario bros is an old man dressed in red.
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