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CondorTalon
Player
Joined: May 3rd, 2011, 8:14 pm

September 3rd, 2016, 8:02 pm #11

Lore wrote:"lmao she did a Japanese suicide while being Chinese"
y this
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V6:
G009 - Sandra Dyer - Pot lid - [untitled]
G023 - Jennifer Su - Flashlight - Asymptote
G036 - Nancy Kyle - Hatchet - 不安心

V5:
G024 - Yukiko Sakurai - Weed whacker with circular saw attachment - Sunrise
B048 - Corey Esposito - Swedish Made Penis Enhancement Pump - Something Something Movie Reference

V5 Pregame:
Miriam Castille - "U-Um... well, see... I-I seemed to have misplaced m-my books..." - In Transit - It Was Just A Drink
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Felix Rees
Camellia "Cammy" Walker-Grimsley
Sachi Kobayakawa
Dane Lennox
Catherine Zier
Malcolm Hong
Victoria Tran
Bethany Sadler
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MurderWeasel
MW's Private Rank
Joined: February 18th, 2009, 7:01 am

September 3rd, 2016, 9:15 pm #12

Don't have a ton to say on TVTropes, but image-wise I've got somewhat mixed feelings about alignment charts. What I really like about them is that they celebrate a wide range of characters, and I don't really like the idea of putting forth winners/survivors/the most murderous villains or whoever as the brand representatives of SOTF, as it were. All of those sorts of characters are interesting and important, but the real beauty of our story is its ensemble nature, the way characters who die before the halfway point without a kill to their name can be fondly remembered and have just as deep and key and interesting stories as the dude who kills twenty-seven people and goes home to become a nuclear physicist or whatever. The V4 alignment chart does a great job of that... except that a. it's V4-only and b. it's an alignment chart.

What I don't like about alignment charts (and what pains me and leads me to often be less than constructive in discussions about alignment overall) is that alignment represents a massive moral simplification with a side order of personality quiz heaped on top. Alignment springs from very specific quirks of a particular style of fantasy world, one where "evil" is not only an identifier one may objectively hold, but also one that many aspire to. There are, like, evil clubs for the evil and so on, and while it's not exactly black and white, much of that comes either from the system not surviving contact with actual play (given that most people enjoy at least a tiny bit of moral ambiguity), or from diving fully into the bizarre nature of such a world and playing it to the hilt, or from ignoring or lampooning it and using it in name only. Part of the joy of SOTF is its myriad shades of grey. Even our very concept stems from characters being thrown into a situation where conventional ideas of morality don't cleanly or easily apply (the reason one handler years ago famously insisted that SOTF in fact belonged to the post-apocalypse genre). Alignment charts are catchy, fun, and popular online, but I just feel they simplify something in a way that does the game a fundamental disservice if it's the first line of advertisement.

That's, of course, not to say I hate alignment charts as a fun thing to be made and shared. I think they're really cool in that context (which is the context that Little created the V4 chart in; it was pressed into service on the TVTropes page, iirc, because it existed and looked nice, rather than being created for it). I'd love to see more, for versions, for the game overall, whatever. If we're looking to specifically replace, though, I have a few thoughts.

What I do love so much about the current image is how it captures the variety of roles (it features two survivors, three characters who died before the halfway point, killers [including the version's biggest], pacifists, player-hunters). I love the way each character is given a little spotlight through a quote encapsulating their personality. If there were some way to have something like that covering the whole span of the story, and in some way stripped of the whole alignment shebang, I think that might come closest to capturing the spirit of SOTF accurately.

Really just musings, though. I dunno. I don't hate charts. If we're aiming specifically for an upgrade, though, I'd love to see it be the best it can be, and this is mostly a ramble about that.
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1245
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1245
Winner
Joined: June 29th, 2013, 5:06 pm

September 3rd, 2016, 10:50 pm #13

CondorTalon wrote:
Lore wrote:"lmao she did a Japanese suicide while being Chinese"
y this
I think the taking off the shoe was meant?
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Mr. Danya
Joined: February 22nd, 2013, 1:59 am

September 10th, 2016, 4:07 pm #14

There's been some discussion about getting a new header image for the front page of the wiki, and I think that whatever that would end up being might also be appropriate for the tropes page. If we want a picture that has a bunch of different characters on it, I think an alignment chart or something similar is the simplest way to implement that, though I do see where MW is coming from with his criticisms of it. Perhaps something in the vein of the current alignment chart, but without the morality scale explicitly listed, so as to focus more on the variety of characters and maybe a quote from them that gives an idea of who they are.
"Art enriches the community, Steve, no less than a pulsing fire hose, or a fireman beating down a blazing door. So what if we're drawing a nude man? So what if all we ever draw is a nude man, or the same nude man over and over in all sorts of provocative positions? Context, not content! Process, not subject! Don't be so gauche, Steve, it's beneath you."
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V5:
G063 Natali Greer was just unlucky.
B047 Marcus Leung lost his way. (Adopted from Solomir.)

V6:
B001 Min-jae Parker is locked away.
B021 Crist?bal Morales let his guard down.
G017 Raina Rose got washed away.
G003 Bridgette Sommerfeld got a shock. (Adopted from Aloha.)
G029 Georgia Lee Day went home. (Adopted from frogue.)
Nathan Lovegrove was left behind.

V7 Pregame:
Myles Roux is considering his options.
Dolores Upton is exploring the past.
Andy Silverman is balling out.
Siyanda Nagi is on the run.
Mercy Ames is passing judgment.
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Leaf
Player
Joined: March 8th, 2015, 2:08 am

September 10th, 2016, 4:21 pm #16

Slam wrote:It's too bad SOTF doesn't just have an outright logo we could use.
I could make one in paint and ask Frogue to do make 2000% better?
[+] spoiler
Born underneath a Canadian sky to parents who were quite possibly mounties, Lore roamed the wild unknowns of Quebec, becoming a kickass gamer girl and a sassy action lady. She has both fought a beaver to the death and won several arguments on instagram. Scientists have struggled for years to figure out which is sharper - her wit or Valyrian steel. She is most known outside of SOTF for her portrayal of Yuno Gasai in the anime series The Future Diaries, which she shot for 43 days on-location. She still has the pink hair dye.
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Mr. Danya
Joined: February 22nd, 2013, 1:59 am

September 10th, 2016, 4:29 pm #17

I guess that would come down to whether more people want just a logo/banner for the site as a whole, or something that shows some of the characters. Personally, I'd prefer the latter but I'm also not the one who would get saddled with making it because I can't art.
"Art enriches the community, Steve, no less than a pulsing fire hose, or a fireman beating down a blazing door. So what if we're drawing a nude man? So what if all we ever draw is a nude man, or the same nude man over and over in all sorts of provocative positions? Context, not content! Process, not subject! Don't be so gauche, Steve, it's beneath you."
[+] spoiler
V5:
G063 Natali Greer was just unlucky.
B047 Marcus Leung lost his way. (Adopted from Solomir.)

V6:
B001 Min-jae Parker is locked away.
B021 Crist?bal Morales let his guard down.
G017 Raina Rose got washed away.
G003 Bridgette Sommerfeld got a shock. (Adopted from Aloha.)
G029 Georgia Lee Day went home. (Adopted from frogue.)
Nathan Lovegrove was left behind.

V7 Pregame:
Myles Roux is considering his options.
Dolores Upton is exploring the past.
Andy Silverman is balling out.
Siyanda Nagi is on the run.
Mercy Ames is passing judgment.
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[+] spoiler

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Yugikun
Mr. Danya
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 5:36 am

September 10th, 2016, 10:12 pm #18

Just going to mention in terms of the alignment chart: I was planning on putting up a v6 island alignment thread around when the halfway point hit, and actually find someone to do art for the people in the chart. We seem to be heading towards a logo, but I figure that it's information worth knowing.
[+] spoiler


G???: Anna "Roxanne" Herbert - "...It's a god-awful small affair..." - 0%
PREGAME - Past: 1 | Present: 1 2 3
THEME: Dire Straits - Skateaway

G???: Teresa Rojas - "..." - 0%
PREGAME - Past: 1 | Present: 1 2
THEME: Tata Young - Sexy Naughty Bitchy Me

B???: Jonathan Meyers - "..." - 0%
PREGAME - Past: 1 | Present: 1
THEME: Kate Miller-Heidke - Caught In The Crowd
[+] spoiler
Ashley Tanner - The Tattooed Jackass - "We got the music, we got the drinks, I think we have a recipe for some rock n' roll."
Yuko Hayashibara - The Tomboy - "Yo, homeboy, come over here. I wanna play some ball."
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B003: Jeremy Frasier - ?Yeah. No regrets.? - 57%
Kills: 2 | Equipped with: Scoped Raging Bull, $1000, Wooden Baseball Bat, Eyepatch, Pancor Jackhammer
PREGAME - Past: 1 2 3 | Present: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 | Sadie Hawkins: 1 2
V6: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
THEME: OneRepublic - Love Runs Out

B013: Alvaro Vacanti - ?Thank... you...? - 41%
Kills: 3 | Equipped with: MAC-10
PREGAME - Past: 1 2 3 | Present: 1 2 3 4 5 | Sadie Hawkins: 1 2
V6: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
THEME: The Megas - The Haystack Principle

G030: Jasmine King - "I win." - 11%
Kills: 0 | Equipped with: Brass Knuckles
PREGAME - Past: 1 | Present: 1 2 3 | Sadie Hawkins: 1
V6: 1 2 3 4 5
THEME: Luck Ganriki - golden sneer


Hi! I have a blog! Please check it out and follow and stuff!
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Violent-Medic
Winner
Joined: December 1st, 2011, 4:25 pm

September 10th, 2016, 11:30 pm #19

On the image thing, I keep pondering and picturing like... an image with terrorists up the top doing the ominous looking over the thing thing (or just one of the Danyas hanging out doing the announcements), and maybe like... if we're focusing on a single version, a cluster of either important or just late-game kids down below. (Obviously crossover there in some cases.) If it was from multiple games it'd be like 'who the fuck do you put here without overcrowding.' (I might try and sketch something out just to get across what I mean better.)

Or, alternately, something similar to the chart except that it's like... kids that just picked different goals/different ways of playing. Maybe a vote for characters who'd fit that. Or just the late-game thing again, which would be easier. But a vote could get characters from everywhere.

Also on the subject of the TV Tropes page, I'd personally kinda like to see people adding more in the like... crowner sections? The awesome/heartwarming/funny/tearjerker/nightmare fuel pages are basically like the plastic hammers, after all.
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(Sprites courtesy of the awesome Fenris.)

B020 - Daniel "Danny" Brooks | Weapon: Portable CD player with batteries | DECEASED
PREGAME - Past: 1 | Present: 1 2 3 | Sadie Hawkins: N/A
V6 - 1 2 3 4

G002 - Lillian "Lily" Caldwell | Weapon: Army Helmet | DECEASED
PREGAME - Past: 1 2 | Present: 1 2 3 | Sadie Hawkins: 1 2
V6 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

G043 - Clarice Halwood | Weapon: Can of Air Freshener | ALIVE
PREGAME - Past: 1 2 | Present: 1 2 3 | Sadie Hawkins: 1
V6 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
[+] spoiler
B020 - Joe Carrasco | Weapon: Dressage Whip | DECEASED - "All the wishes... impossible. Gun's enough."
PREGAME - Present: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | Prom: 1 2 3 4
V5 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

G003 - Naomi Bell | Weapon: Electric Hedge Trimmers | DECEASED - "S-s-stop."
PREGAME - Past: 1 2 3 | Present: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | Prom: 1
V5 - 1 2 | Meanwhile - 1

G043 - Mallory McCormick | Weapon: Flathead Screwdriver | DECEASED - "Okay... Hospital... Then tennis..."
PREGAME - Past: 1 2 | Present: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
V5 - 1 2 3 4 5 | Meanwhile - 1
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MurderWeasel
MW's Private Rank
Joined: February 18th, 2009, 7:01 am

September 11th, 2016, 4:38 am #20

There's also the little issue of using characters for something semi-official without seeming exclusionary. Like, TVTropes is emphatically "whatever goes" territory to me, but for the wiki...

Eh, okay, I guess it's history time. See, in ye olde days, the site actually had a custom theme which used pictures of Dodd, Hawley, Madeleine, and Cassandra Roivas (whose full-size image never got posted to a wiki and is thus unrecovered) for its buttons. While this was interesting and certainly unique to SOTF, it also had issues. A large number of members had no idea who these characters were meant to be. Of those who did, opinion was a bit split. It's really cool to have your character/work featured as one of the iconic faces of SOTF. That said, it doesn't feel great to not be featured. Since SOTF, in terms of both characters and handlers, is impossibly huge, far more would by necessity be excluded than included. Any sort of line of selection would likely be arbitrary (not really fun for anyone), voting-driven (turns what's already gonna to some extent risk feeling exclusionary into a popularity contest), or focused on "importance" to a version/the overall story (which doesn't feel good because one of our big ideas is that characters matter and are worthwhile whether they win or die on day two).

I dunno. I may be overthinking this, and I really, really love art of SOTF from our numerous incredibly talented handlers. I just also don't want something that should be a really positive celebration of the site to turn negative in any fashion.
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