The collars

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Grim Wolf
Winner
Joined: November 9th, 2009, 5:39 am

October 8th, 2012, 11:47 pm #11

Since this is already in place, I'm going to hijack the thread for something that's been bothering me. It's a small thing, easily ignorable, and even if the answer is a resounding no it won't affect my interest or sense of fairness at all.

Escape attempts now have a possible cost of death associated with them outside of the character's intentions. I don't want to accept this, but it makes sense. However, I'd like a sense of randomness in detonations as well. A small thing--a roll for one out of a thousand, or one out of ten thousand--that the collars are going to malfunction and not detonate as they should. That the materials are inert.

The only reason I bring it up is that now we strictly operate on the terms of the game--thinking outside the box is no longer an action we can back off of if it will cause death, since the consequences will happen and we'll be blind to them. A random chance for the collars to fail would make me feel more comfortable with the process, since it would make it more equivocal. And maybe that way escape attempts wouldn't be quite as all-or-nothing--a character's actions could modify the chance of triggering an explosion from one in a thousand to one in five hundred, or one in four.

Anyway, it's been on my mind, so I thought I'd bring it up.
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V6 Players

Tara Behzad: "They don't get to decide how I die."

Lizzie Luz: "I don't want to go."

Alex Tarquin: "No more masks."
[+] spoiler

G053 Karen Idel, DECEASED: Game over.

B040 Tyler Lucas, DECEASED: I had fun. You?

B046 Xavier Contel, DECEASED : "G-gotta...trust people, Arthur. G-g-gotta try. C-can't be afraid."
[+] spoiler

B054 Raidon Naoko (DECEASED): "Dying like this isn't so bad..."

B072 Simon Grey (DECEASED): "I never was a hero, but, God help me, I tried."

B079 David Meramac (DECEASED): "Running towards nothing. Running from nothing."

G072 Mirabelle Nesa (DECEASED): "I'm a weak little girl who couldn't save anyone, even myself, but god damn it I beat you and god damn it you are going to remember that because I am Mirabelle Nesa and I am a hardened goddamn warrior and I am not going to fucking give up now!"
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MurderWeasel
MW's Private Rank
Joined: February 18th, 2009, 7:01 am

October 9th, 2012, 12:03 am #12

This is an interesting idea, but I don't think it'd be practicable, for a few reasons.

First and foremost, on an OOC level, the addition of a risk of death to escape plots came about to balance some serious issues in past versions. Basically, there was no risk to attempting to get out, meaning that there was nothing to discourage handlers from trying again and again. This, in turn led to a ridiculous number of escape plans of varying degrees of possibility, most on the lower end. In my opinion, the current rule should've been around for ages, but unfortunately hadn't really been thought out.

Moving beyond that, the practical issues I see are as follows: it's been established that, to as great an extent as is possible, the terrorists do test each collar individually. This means that the odds of one slipping through while defective are very low. I'd say we're talking possibly even lower than a 1/10,000 chance, given the established efficacy of the collars.

This applies only to things that would actually detonate the collars. I suppose a totally defective collar slipping through would stop the terrorists from detonating it at range as well, but by the same token it would also stop a character from being detonated in a DZ, or if somebody grabbed their collar.

In effect, putting such a situation into practice would mean either a. rolling every time a character got into a situation in which their collar might go off, which would involve slowing the game down a lot (rolls need at least two staff present, and the ideal is three including an admin) or b. pre-rolling the collar functionality of every character in the game, which would be a very awkward situation for staff, who would (on the unlikely offchance someone actually hit a 1/10,000-100,000 chance) have to keep quiet about it.

Basically, as I see it, the payout is very low compared to the work and time needed for it, especially since it largely boils down to the potential for rewarding handlers at random to an even greater extent than normal.

I'm not a fan of modifying odds based on character actions either, because anything that won't turn the collars off full-stop will make them explode. Similarly, taking preparations that tip off the terrorists may result in collars getting popped before any action can even really be taken.

As always, staff will be honoring any attempts that would work within the established constraints of the collars and the game. As I see it, that's a pretty good possibility for reward, better than random odds. We have an established list of things that will not work for escapes (and it is pretty long and extensive!) but I am also very confident that not everything has been considered. I'd rather see any escapes which occur come about through channels of ingenuity rather than luck.

I speak only for myself here, though, and this is not a staff ruling, just my thoughts.
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MK Kilmarnock
Mr. Danya
Joined: April 14th, 2009, 10:12 pm

October 9th, 2012, 2:46 am #13

Yeah no, agreeing with Toben. Just in case we wanted to do that whole 'see what the other staff members think' thing.
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Grim Wolf
Winner
Joined: November 9th, 2009, 5:39 am

October 9th, 2012, 3:18 am #14

I understand, and that's fair. I'm going all-out with my own escape attempt in-game, but it just seemed a little skewed based on the fact that our characters are sort of racing against their inevitable death anyways. However, when you put it in those terms, it seems much more acceptable. One point of clarification, then; is there a larger benefit to escape attempts now that they can longer be attempted ad infinitum? Would a successful escape attempt, in effect, act as a roll null, since it carries with it a chance of death anyways?
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V6 Players

Tara Behzad: "They don't get to decide how I die."

Lizzie Luz: "I don't want to go."

Alex Tarquin: "No more masks."
[+] spoiler

G053 Karen Idel, DECEASED: Game over.

B040 Tyler Lucas, DECEASED: I had fun. You?

B046 Xavier Contel, DECEASED : "G-gotta...trust people, Arthur. G-g-gotta try. C-can't be afraid."
[+] spoiler

B054 Raidon Naoko (DECEASED): "Dying like this isn't so bad..."

B072 Simon Grey (DECEASED): "I never was a hero, but, God help me, I tried."

B079 David Meramac (DECEASED): "Running towards nothing. Running from nothing."

G072 Mirabelle Nesa (DECEASED): "I'm a weak little girl who couldn't save anyone, even myself, but god damn it I beat you and god damn it you are going to remember that because I am Mirabelle Nesa and I am a hardened goddamn warrior and I am not going to fucking give up now!"
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MurderWeasel
MW's Private Rank
Joined: February 18th, 2009, 7:01 am

October 9th, 2012, 3:42 am #15

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by acting as a roll null. A successful escape attempt would not make a character immune to getting rolled while they were on the island (in fact, depending on the situation, they could end up in a lot of trouble). A character who managed to escape entirely, though (as in get beyond the terrorists' reach) would presumably be safe from retribution, and thus would not have to fear rolls. Also, if a character managed to get their collar off, they'd be able to avoid a few typical rules (like DZs and the risk of getting their collar popped). Most likely, they'd have to contend with a V4-style troubleshooter squad unless they managed to get out of the reach of the baddies.

Also, depending on the situation, an escape attempt could potentially allow a character to save other characters as well (a la V4's rescue), which is a fairly significant benefit.
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Grim Wolf
Winner
Joined: November 9th, 2009, 5:39 am

October 9th, 2012, 3:54 am #16

I was more thinking, in the event a character decided to make the attempt after being rolled, would there succeeding at the disarming the collar delay the roll, at least for that day?
Want to buy my book? See my short stories? Read my fanfiction? Visit my website!

V6 Players

Tara Behzad: "They don't get to decide how I die."

Lizzie Luz: "I don't want to go."

Alex Tarquin: "No more masks."
[+] spoiler

G053 Karen Idel, DECEASED: Game over.

B040 Tyler Lucas, DECEASED: I had fun. You?

B046 Xavier Contel, DECEASED : "G-gotta...trust people, Arthur. G-g-gotta try. C-can't be afraid."
[+] spoiler

B054 Raidon Naoko (DECEASED): "Dying like this isn't so bad..."

B072 Simon Grey (DECEASED): "I never was a hero, but, God help me, I tried."

B079 David Meramac (DECEASED): "Running towards nothing. Running from nothing."

G072 Mirabelle Nesa (DECEASED): "I'm a weak little girl who couldn't save anyone, even myself, but god damn it I beat you and god damn it you are going to remember that because I am Mirabelle Nesa and I am a hardened goddamn warrior and I am not going to fucking give up now!"
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MurderWeasel
MW's Private Rank
Joined: February 18th, 2009, 7:01 am

October 9th, 2012, 4:08 am #17

Probably not. Making an attempt after being rolled already means there's nothing extra to lose, unlike in normal circumstances, and if there was a potential benefit to it then there'd be no reason for every handler to not make every one of their characters try to escape as soon as they're rolled, since the risk/reward would be highly skewed.
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MK Kilmarnock
Mr. Danya
Joined: April 14th, 2009, 10:12 pm

October 9th, 2012, 10:21 pm #18

It also comes off as incredibly cheesy because a character wouldn't know they were slated for death, and thus attempt to disable their collar at that moment. So, for IC and OoC reasons, I'm also throwing a no-go.
[+] spoiler
Jerry Fury - The man, the myth, the legend
Coleen Reagan - The girl who half-loved the world
[+] spoiler
V5 Roster:
Cody Patton : That bitch.
Sean Mulcahy : The world was kind to reprieve him of his fear...
Jessica Sanders: She hoped it would be quick...
[+] spoiler
20:17Sideliner:Toben and Ricky are like a sibling version of the Joker and Batman, only Batman is just as much of a mass murderer. He just hides it better.
19:58LaurelsHow does your dick smell like Fritos?
14:36 MimiI THOUGHT YOU GUYS WERE FRIENDS > 14:36MimiI THOUGHT YOU REALLY LICKED HER
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Joined: January 28th, 2012, 4:09 pm

October 9th, 2012, 11:27 pm #19

I'm curious. How much work has been put into the design of the collars, from an OOC perspective? Is there some schematic sitting on a hard-drive somewhere among the staff, or are things decided on the fly?
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MurderWeasel
MW's Private Rank
Joined: February 18th, 2009, 7:01 am

October 10th, 2012, 12:12 am #20

Ooh, I can field this one!

There is not a direct schematic because the actual technology for bomb collars of the size and style featured in SOTF doesn't exist. There is a direct list of what triggers collars (and at what degree; for example heat at less than start-to-damage-the-collar temperatures won't make them blow because kids end up in fires sometimes), as well as what varieties of tampering create what results. Basically, there's a big ol' list of precautions the terrorists took, and the actual functioning of the collars (along with their rough construction) is all mapped out.
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