Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

February 2nd, 2011, 8:24 pm #11

Good questions - and there are good answers available (for Polish).
Unfortunately, I don't have the full set of knowledge.
I do note however:
Polish can be unique - in how the Condition mood is formed and used.
I have been trying to "catch up" on the Polish grammar and spelling that I never learned as a child or teenager. And so I have been taking lessons with an excellent Polish native-speaker & linguist.

For example, I've learned that the current Polish "present conditional" is derived from an old AORIST
form of "to be" - "być" - which later became forms of an old "Past Participle Active" - which is why (as I understand) today's Polish conditional words vary in gender and number.
Add to this the fact that Polish will often "relocate" the conditional word from its modified verb and attach it to another part of speech which is stressed in the sentence: npr:
Gdybyś był tak dobry.... = If you would be so kind....
Chętnie bym to dla ciebie zrobil.... = I'd willingly do it for you....
Gdybym tylko mogl! = If only I could
Żebyś tylko zdążył = May you only be in time!
Dlaczegoby miał odmówić = Why should he refuse?
Obyście się nie rozczarowali = May you not be disillusioned!




Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Joined: October 12th, 2010, 12:50 pm

February 2nd, 2011, 8:52 pm #12

Gabriel Svoboda wrote:1) čoby manifestovati (aby manifestovatì, daby manifestovatì, žeby manifestovatì)
2) čoby manifestovali (aby manifestovali, daby manifestovali, žeby manifestovali)
Gabriel, i'm just simple man.

żeby/aby manifestować/zamanifestować - to manifest (in future)
żeby/aby (on) manifestował/(ona) manifestowała/(ono) manifestowało itd - in order to he/she will manifest in the future

Both options give the same message, but the first is generally about the operations, and second is about the person who performs operation
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Joined: December 14th, 2009, 3:33 pm

February 3rd, 2011, 12:39 am #13



[/quote]
wrote:For example, I've learned that the current Polish "present conditional" is derived from an old AORIST
form of "to be" - "być" - which later became forms of an old "Past Participle Active" - which is why (as I understand) today's Polish conditional words vary in gender and number.
Yes, thats true Steeven.
OCS, BCS, Bulgarian and Macedonian aorist looks like...

vzę-ti

ja vzę-h
ty vzę -
on vzę -

my vzę-smo (Bulg. vzę-hom)
vy vzę-ste
oni vzę-šę

from byti

ja by-h or bym
ty by(s)
on by(st)

my bysmo
vy byste
oni by(še)

1) Combined with past participle it makes "condicional mode".
2) Many languages made out of this an article "by" which is used also in BCS but considered as very noneloquent.
3) In BCS and Bulgarian Aorist is used in telling fairy tales and in living speech for "I am about to do - future" and "I've just done... past".
4) In the very very far past slavic aorist is considered to be a future tense and looked like this:

vzę-ti
az vzę-s-ų (or vzę-s-m>vzęm)
ty vzę-s-s
on vzę-s-t

my vzę-s-mo
vy vzę-s-te
oni vzę-s-ęt
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Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

February 3rd, 2011, 7:10 am #14

wannabeme wrote:vzę-ti
ja vzę-h
ty vzę -
on vzę -
my vzę-smo (Bulg. vzę-hom)
vy vzę-ste
oni vzę-šę
byti
ja by-h or bym
ty by(s)
on by(st)
my bysmo
vy byste
oni by(še)
In the very very far past slavic aorist is considered to be a future tense and looked like this:
vzę-ti
az vzę-s-ų (or vzę-s-m>vzęm)
ty vzę-s-s
on vzę-s-t
my vzę-s-mo
vy vzę-s-te
oni vzę-s-ęt
Well!
My great-grandfather (who lived to over 100 years old) told me that he used to be able to understand Serbian and Croatian when he traveled there as a young man (this would have been in early 1900's); but that at the end of the 1900's, he said that Serbo-Croatian sounded very different.
I still am unable to understand today's Serbo-Croatian very well (at least with my Polish/Russian ears) ...well, not quite true. I've been speaking with so many Serbs and Croates that my ears have been adjusting to understand better now - but then I have been reading text also. If you speak slowly, it helps very much.
I look forward to visiting this summer!

What does "vzęti" mean? (it sounds like "to take" - Slovenian still has verb "vzeti" )
Thank you!
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

February 3rd, 2011, 7:52 am #15

Kozica wrote: Nie jest oświecone kulenie się, by inni nie czuli się niepewnie w twojej obecności.
What is "kulenie"?
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Joined: October 12th, 2010, 12:50 pm

February 3rd, 2011, 9:53 am #16

http://www.sjp.pl/co/kuli%E6

cower crouch cringe nestle

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Joined: October 2nd, 2008, 2:18 pm

February 3rd, 2011, 11:09 am #17

vzęti is "to take" (Polish wziąć, Polish ią becomes ę in Nauczny Slovianski and e in ordinary Slovianski)
"I nen?t pochyby, ?e kdokoli chce a um?, mů?e sobě stworiti jazyk kr?sn?, bohat?, libozwučn? a w?emo?ně dokonal?: ale jazyk takow? nebudě w?ce n?rodnim, alebr? osobn?m jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
Franti?ek Palack?. Posudek o česk?m jazyku spisovn?m, 1831.

[čćч]
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Joined: November 2nd, 2010, 10:37 pm

February 3rd, 2011, 11:54 am #18

"vzêti.........propably same/similar like in czech...vzíti, (jati), (uzmouti).........to take

always todays czech kondicional...já bych, bys, by, bychom(bysme), byste, by, derived from aorist
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Joined: December 14th, 2009, 3:33 pm

February 3rd, 2011, 4:58 pm #19

vzeti, vzimati slo
uzeti, uzimati bcs
to take, to be taking
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Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

February 3rd, 2011, 5:00 pm #20

Kozica wrote:http://www.sjp.pl/co/kuli%E6
cower crouch cringe nestle
Ah!
Ne uznalem korenno slovo "kulić"
Blago te!
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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