Joined: October 23rd, 2007, 9:20 pm

August 23rd, 2012, 12:01 am #11

steeven wrote:So "stukati" looks good. But, isn't it more common to say: "stukati na dveri" instead of "stukati v dveri" ?
I think this really depends on what somebody's own language does. What looks natural for one person may look strange to another, but whether you write na, v or even do here, it's still understood. IMO there's no point in regulating this.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to? bude trudno s vsim inim.

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Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

August 23rd, 2012, 9:59 am #12

hm, pukati could be also.
wrote:but whether you write na, v or even do here, it's still understood.
ok, just make sure the noun after preposition : na and v is in Acc.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
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Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

August 23rd, 2012, 7:31 pm #13

bandziol20 wrote:ok, just make sure the noun after preposition : na and v is in Acc.
OK.
So for "dveri" what is accusative?

> the plural accusative of the "singular" form "dver" (which we don't use") would be: "dvery"
> the plural accusative of the "plural" form "dveri" would be "dveriy" / "двериы"
See: http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/declinator.html
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Joined: October 23rd, 2007, 9:20 pm

August 23rd, 2012, 11:21 pm #14

Eh? No no, dvery is a plurale tantum, dveriy is nonsense.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to? bude trudno s vsim inim.

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Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

August 24th, 2012, 12:12 am #15

IJzeren Jan wrote:dveriy is nonsense.
I agree.
But that is what the Noun Declinator yields when "dveri" is entered. Yes, yes, it is nonsense, but who knows what "rule" may be programmed?
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

August 24th, 2012, 12:31 am #16

Why is "DOOR" a plural noun in most Slavic languages?
Proto-Indo-European and Cognates:

Proto-Indo-European Roots

Root/Stem: *dhwer-, *dhwor-

Meanings: a doorway, a door, a gate

Cognates:

> Greek - thura (a door) - a feminine a-stem noun

> Latin - foris (a door), foras (out the house), forum - the initial f- proves it used to be *dh-, not *d-
> Umbrian - furo, furu (a forum)

> Common Celtic - *dor- (a door) >
> Insular Celtic - *doressuh - a suffix -est- was added;
> Gaulish - doro (a mouth)
> Welsh & Breton - dor
> Old Irish - dorus
> Irish Gaelic - doras
> Scottish Gaelic - dorus or dorust (dialectal)
> Old Cornish - dor
> Cornish - daras

> Common Germanic - *dur- (a doorway) with a semi-vowel replacing a root vowel;
> Gothic - dauro (gate)
> Old English - duru (a door)
> Old High German - turi
> Old Norse - dyrr

> Sanskrit - dvárah (a door, gate)
> Avestan - dvar (a door)
> Old Persian - duvaraya (outside)

> Armenian - durkh (acc. a door)

> Thracian - dur, dero-v (a fence)

> Albanian - derë (a gate)

> Common Baltic - *duaris (gate)
> Lithuanian - durys (plural for "doors")
> Latvian - duris
> Old Prussian - dwaris (gate)
> Sudovian - dvaris (gate)

> Common Slavic - *dverï (gate)
> Slovene - duri (plural - doors)
> Czech - dveri
> Polish - drzwi
> Upper Sorbian - durje
> Lower Sorbian - z'urja (doors)
> Ukrainian - dveri
> Russian - dver' (a door - singular > dveri - plural)
> Belorussian - dzwery (doors)

Notes: The noun was feminine and i-stem, though later in some groups (Indic, Greek) it migrated into a-stems.

Some scientists think that the plural form is so frequent because of the meaning "doors": two halves of the gate.
It had dual number, and such a fact is still shown in Russian where the word for "gate" is vorota, the former dual form.

So why does Russian alone use the singular and plural forms? (perhaps Upper Sorian is singular also - I don't know)


Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

August 24th, 2012, 8:36 am #17

steeven wrote:> Greek - thura (a door) - a feminine a-stem noun
I've seen also form thyra.
wrote:> Slovene - duri (plural - doors)
In Slovene (and Croatian) there was also dveri (plur., rarely : sg. dver (f.)) and diminutive : dverce.
OCS. *dvьrь, *dvьri
wrote:Some scientists think that the plural form is so frequent because of the meaning "doors": two halves of the gate.
I agree.
wrote:So why does Russian alone use the singular and plural forms?
Maybe, Russian is more conservative in this case
USB durje is plural. I think Slovene duri and USorb durje could arise by influence of German turi.

Interesting here is Polish with metathese : regular dwrzi (after lost of yers) was hard to pronounce.
It involved to arise irregular form : drzwi (with metathese) and irregular form dźwierze (neutr., now dial.) for two-winged door. Here goes odźwierny for "doorman, porter".
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynami ... onary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

September 8th, 2012, 10:28 am #18

TO WRING (~ to squeeze or twist liquid out)
Example :
Caroline has been swimming.
Now she will wring out her bathing suit. + { She will twist the bathing suit until most of the water is out.}
usb = (wu- pf.)žimać (< ždźimać)
pl = wyżąć (pf., 1st sg wyżmę) / wyżymać (ip.)
cz = (vy- pf.)ždímat
sk = (vy- pf.)žmýkať
sn = (iz- /o-)-žeti (pf., 1st sg -žmem) / -žemati (ip.)
hr = izažeti (pf., izažmem) / izažimati (ip.)
ru = выжать (pf., 1st sg выжму) / выжимать (ip.)

TO WADE
Example :
Children wade at the seashore. { They walk through the water. }
Some birds (storks, flamingos) wade, too.
usb = brodźić
pl = brodzić
cz = brodit se
sk = brodiť sa
sn = bresti*, broditi
hr = gacati, gaziti
bg = газя, цапам, шляпам
ru = брести*, идти вброд, бродит

(*comp. with vesti : voditi )
Glasovanje je &#269;ista glupos&#357;. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynami ... onary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Joined: October 12th, 2010, 12:50 pm

September 9th, 2012, 9:54 am #19

ej! po malom.

"brodzić" jest od "bród" (ford)

prvy ty najdl slovo na "ford"

tudy budemo "fordit"
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Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

September 9th, 2012, 11:53 am #20

Frankly : doesn't matter. The same is with verbs like vesti : voziti and a noun voz for wagon. Do we need voz to have voziti ? Of course, sometimes is worth to analyze a base, when a verb is long or complicated, but it isn't this case.
Glasovanje je &#269;ista glupos&#357;. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynami ... onary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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