Uču sę tolmačiti. Pųtovanje Kino

Joined: September 10th, 2017, 12:48 pm

September 10th, 2017, 1:22 pm #1

Ja jesm dopŕva uznal ob sim forumě i mogų ne vědati ob nektoryh pravilah. Objasnite moje pogrěški.

Glåva 1: Pověsť ob krmjenji drugih
-Ja hoćų žiti-

Lěs byl osněženy.
Běla pokryva vsju zimų napiraše na drěvese. Vysoke hvoje stojaše posrěd zimnego světa.
Črez větki vidělo sę nebo, mråčne i nizke oblåki v sěroj povlåkě rade by sypnuli snegom v vsjaki moment. Sòlnce svetiše slabo.
Tiho. Pòlna tišina, kromě slučajnogo zvųka sněga padajųći s větok. Ne svistaše daže větr.
Odnikųd vyględal zajęc abo diki krålik. On byl pòlno běly kromě ušev.
Krålik medlo dvigaše, ostavjajųći za sobojų blědy slěd. Potom on obštanavjal sę, dŕgaše ušami i glåvojų, i podvigaše opęť.
Krålik povtorjaše tak několikokråtno kògda naglo zamražal. Jego uši trepetahų. Na jego čelě pojavila şe světla čŕvena točka.
V tom samom lěsu byl člověk.
Člověk nosiše zimno paľto s plaščem i pantalony do samyh stop. Na jej glåve byli šapka s krznym obodkom i jednooki zaščitne naočila s žòltoj linzoj. Topla šal kryla šijų i dužų čęsť jej lica.
Člověk usędal na jedno koleno naprotiv drěva. V jej rųkě byl rųčny šotgan, udŕžajemy dvěma rųkami. Šotgan byl avtomatičnoj modeli s vųzkoj ramoj i podtiskateľem zvuka harmoničnogo oblika. Črvono světlo naglo vylětalo iz malogo dyrka pod žŕlom. Světlo lazera dlja cělinja. Pojaviše råvno na glåvě krålika.
Vydyhajųći běle oblåki para, člověk medlo spustil haček. Šotgan pušnul.
V mig oka, kròv iztrysknula sę iz glåvy krålika.
Krålik běše tręstiše sę i upal, pòlno bezživotno. Kròv očŕvonila jego belo krzno i råztòpila sněg pod jego tělom.

Tolmačeno s

Chapter 1: A Story of Feeding off of Others
-I Want to Live-

The forest was covered in snow.
The blanket of white had been heavy on the plants in the woods all winter long. Tall coniferous trees stood over the wintry world.
The sky peered through between the branches, dark and covered with low grey clouds ready to pour more snow at any moment. The sun shone feebly.
It was quiet. Completely silent, save for the occasional sound of snow slipping off branches. Not even the wind whistled.
Out of nowhere, a wild rabbit emerged. It was completely white save for the ears.
The rabbit slowly moved, leaving faint pawprints in its wake. Then it stopped with a twitch of the ears and head, then resumed moving.
The rabbit repeated the actions for some time before suddenly freezing. Its ears quivered. A glowing red dot appeared on its forehead.
In the same forest was a human.
A person wearing a cloaked winter coat and pants that covered even the feet. The person was wearing a fur-rimmed hat and a one-eye goggle with a yellow lens. A face warmer extended from the neck to cover the rest of her face.
The person sat against a tree with one leg up. There was a hand persuader in her grip, held with both hands between the knees. The persuader was an automatic model with a narrow frame and a harmonica-shaped suppressor. A red light suddenly emerged from the small hole under the muzzle. A laser sight for aiming. It was pointed straight at the rabbit’s head.
With breaths rising in white puffs, the person slowly pulled the trigger. The persuader clicked.
In the blink of an eye, blood spurted from the rabbit’s head.
The rabbit trembled and fell, completely lifeless. Blood dyed its white fur red and melted the snow piled under its body.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

September 11th, 2017, 12:49 pm #2

Hej,
a quite interesting text.
Now, I'm not a big expert about Slavic old tenses like Aorist or Imperfective, so I won't comment that. (I think it's up to the Author's taste.)
So, now to the details of that text :

"Pověsť ob krmjenji drugih"
I don't know about: "ob", I would probably use simply: "o".
(BTW, I don't find that krmjenji not very nice. If I have to... I would probably choose krmjenju or krmjeni. But I don't know)


In general, I would try to avoid in translation any (++ specialized) participles if it's only possible. For example, instead of :
Lěs byl osněženy. I would write : Lěs ležal pod sněgom. or sth like : byl pokryty sněgom. Or even (if you bold enough) to convert the Voice of the original sentence: Sněg pokryval ves lěs.

vsoj zimi ~ all winter long
Well, I can't even recognize what is the Noun case of that phrase. I would use simply Accusative (as in Polish : (przez) całą zimę) : (črez) vsju* zimu / cělu zimu.
*I myself consider ves (ru весь) 'all' as a soft-ending adjective.



na drěvese
hm... I actually don't know how to deal with these neuter forms with -es-; I myself would use : na dreva

větrnogo světa
~ wintry world :
If wintry refers to winter, maybe zimny from zima ? Yet, větrny svět 'windy world' is quite cold, too.

Črez větki bylo videny nebo
Here is an obvious mistype : bylo (neuter) + videny (masculine) don't match with each other, but as I've mentioned above I would generally get rid of passive participles, and instead would recommend non-personal constructions (that Slavic languages seem to enjoy), i.e.: vidělo se nebo or sth like that.

One thing you should be aware of is that the English language is very analytical, full of short, one-syllable words that are very flexible in their connections. But if you try to put Slavic words instead, the result of it would be a translation far more long (well, it would be anyway), stiff and clumsy.
I think it's better to think over and to replace three (or four) short English words with one synthetical Slavic. Let's see it in the example :

...byli gotove spasti snegom v vsjakom časě... ~ ...ready to pour more snow at any moment...
---
now, is it worth to translate 'to pour' into quite flat 'spasti' (literally 'to fall down') ? maybe find sth more specific ?
I notice that śnieg 'snow' in Polish is considered as a 'dry' thing (like sugar, flour or salt), so we say : sypać / prószyć śniegiem.
I would here use conditional (or better to say: hypothetical) particle "by" to depict a potential situation, and a short adjective 'rad' that express "eagerness / enjoy" of clouds (antropomorfization of the Nature is very typical to Slavic languages) :

...rade by sypnuli sněgom...
As for "at any moment", of course, it can be translate literally: vo vsjaki moment, but here it seems to underline a sort of the impression that clouds are really close to do that, so perhaps : čuť-čuť (a little bit, almost) ?

Sòlnce jedva osvetljaše. ~The sun shone feebly.
Hm... why jedva ? Somehow it doesn't fit me in that context, but I can be wrong.
I would write just: Solnko světilo slabo (or to antropomorphize a bit : nesmělo.)



Tiho. Pòlna tišina, kromě slučajnogo zvųka sněga padųći s větk. Ne svistaše daže větr.
Quite good. But :
...padųći s větk... ~ ...slipping off branches...
You really can't make the active participle from a perfective verb like pasti (pad-), but only from imperfective one like padati (pada-), then : padajuči. (Yes, I know they both are listed in the dictionary as 'to fall').
BTW, I would insert -o- into větk : větOk, just to make its pronunciation easy. But if you can pronounce it with no insertations (it's good to check it reading it with the record-tape), then it's fine to me. My free translation :

Bylo tiho. Ne slyšalo se nič kromě sněga, ktory padal vreme od vremeni s větok.
---
I'll add the rest of my notes for this text tomorrow...
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynami ... onary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 1st, 2013, 3:31 pm

September 11th, 2017, 5:44 pm #3

Česť Dobrodošel na forum. Iz kojej državy jesi?
Osnovno najva?njej?im jest ?iťje. Ale k?gda u?e jest ?iťje, najva?njej?a je svoboda.
A pot?m daje sę ?iťje za svobodų.
I u?e ne zna sę čto je najva?niej?im.

Marek Edelman
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 10th, 2017, 12:48 pm

September 11th, 2017, 8:53 pm #4

asank, Dękujų, I jesmo iz Rosije.

bandziol20, dękujų za otpověd'.
1) I've didn't find out form 'o' in the list of prepositions so I decided that short form doesn't exist in other slavlangs.
2) How to decide is participle specialized or not. "to make the object undergo treatment with something (lit. or fig.) expressed by a noun: okrųžiti „to get around, to encircle”, okameniti „to stone". I've made in analogy to okameneti. And I've already used kryti later.
3) You're right vsjų zimų. I messed with cases (I've strongly seen in 'всю зиму' genitive) and declension of ves'.
4) větrnogo světa is my mistake. Sometimes I see things that doesn't exist. But how poetically it is...
5) The idea of antropomorphication of nature is quite interesting. I thought for a long time how I would translate this phrase on russian. We speak about nature as a man only when want to show mankind problems and psychology using this even metaphor. I didn't understand using čut'-čut' in your version.
6) I haven't found out in vocabulary "větok" as plural genitive of větka or a rule *tk > *tok so I didn't used it. I tried hard to fit Mežduslovianski grammar as near as I can
Čěkajų vaše prodolženije (abo kontinuacijų?) otpovědi s netrpenjem.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

September 12th, 2017, 11:30 am #5

Hej,
I'm Polish, so maybe I haven't quite understood the sense of čut'-čut' (taken from Russian); I've meant that the clouds are "close" (in time) to pour with snow.
Of course, "o" exists in other Slavic languages (in contrast, ob is quite rare), I haven't known that it is not on the list.

...sněga padajųći s větok...
rather : padajučego - i.e. Case agreement with sněga (Gen.); at least that's how it works in Polish.

Ne svistaše daže větr. ~ Not even the wind whistled.
I think there could be some problem with 'daže' for non-Russians; besides the word order seems to me a little obscure.
I would write : Ani větor ne zasvistal / zazvizdal.


Odnikųd vyględal zajęc abo diki krålik. ~ Out of nowhere, a wild rabbit emerged.
I think odnikud itself is a quite interesting neologism made of English "out of nowhere", but... I'm not sure if it makes text easy to read (I take here functional perspective). The thing is that every newborn word makes the reader curious (what does it mean ?) and attracts a special attention (maybe it's sth of a great importance ?) -- here I don't see reason for that. So instead I would suggest "usual" words like, say, odkud-to (I hope it exists !), or simply naglo 'suddenly' or sth alike. (Saying that, yet, I think it would be good to find some more expressive, "not-so-usual" options for that phrase. Odnikud is a good startpoint)
The second thing is the verb used : vygledati; in Polish wyglądać has the following meaning : 1. to look out (of a window, for example), 2. 'to look like'. For "emerged" I would write simply : pojavil se. BTW, I don't know the good word for "rabbit": Polish królik 'little king' is a failed calque from German Kaninchen mistaken with Königchen.

On byl pòlno běly kromě ušev. ~ It was completely white save for the ears.
For me is a bit amazing was to discover that Russian and Czech use here derivatives of polny 'full' (ru : полностью белый (what a !), cz : úplně bílý).
In Polish I would say just : cały biały / cěly běly (btw, there is also a cute adverb in Czech : zcela, i.e. zcela bíly)
Btw, I find quite odd that form of Gen. plur. of neuter : ušev '(of) ears'. I mean with this -ev ending looks like a masculine noun.

Krålik medlo dvigaše, ostavjajųći za sobojų blědy slěd. ~ The rabbit slowly moved, leaving faint pawprints in its wake.
medlo as "slowly" is a typical Russian word; btw, in Polish mdły means 1. nauseating 2. (light) faint, dim 3. (taste) bland, insipid, dull
dvigati as 'to move' the same; in Polish dźwigać means 'to lift, to heave'
I propose for "slowly" : (malo) pomalu (pl. pomału, cz pomalu) - lit. (little) by little. For 'to move' in the case of a rabbit... maybe: postupoval ?
Instead of blědy slěd - maybe slabe slědy ? (pl. blady 'pale' ? btw, 'slěd' as 'a footprint' is not so popular between Slavs)


Potom on obštanavjal sę, dŕgaše ušami i glåvojų, i podvigaše opęť. ~ Then it stopped with a twitch of the ears and head, then resumed moving.
obštanavjal ? not such a word, ob- ? -št- ? I would say maybe : stal / pristal (pf.).
I generally omit personal pronouns like ja, on, ty, since the very verb-form usually indicates what the person is. I would also omit first 'then' completely. Potom - is not bad, but is not necessary, either.

dŕgaše ušami i glavoju~~ with a twitch of the ears and head
The verb drgati is an imperfective one and it doesn't fits in the context if the rabbit did it just for a moment; btw, maybe tresti 'to shake' (or mykati ?) instead of drgati 'to tremble' ?
..i podvigaše opęť... ~ ...resumed moving...
In the context of moving, I think I could use dalje 'further', just to keep opeť 'again' in stock.
Krålik povtorjaše tak několikokråtno kògda naglo zamražal. ~ The rabbit repeated the actions for some time before suddenly freezing.
That "několikokråtno" sounds very seriously and heavily and doesn't fit to a cute, little rabbit.
Another thing: 'to freeze' here is an intransitive verb, while zamražati is transitive and means 'to freeze sth'. Secondly, 'to freeze' isn't taken in this context literally: I mean, the rabbit freezes, but not because of the frost = a low temperature outside. So it opens other possibilities for the translation. It could be sth like : Stupal tak neky čas, (potom) naglo (/iznenada)... zamrel. or sth like that.

Jego uši trepetahų. ~ Its ears quivered.
As for body parts, in Slavic languages instead of possessive adjective like moj 'my', tvoj 'your', jego 'his', we can use forms of personal pronouns in the Dative case (describing the experiencer): Tresli mu se uši.
Na jego čelě pojavila şe světla čŕvena točka. A glowing red dot appeared on its forehead.
Na čele se mu pojavila žareča, črvena točka.
V tom samom lěsu byl člověk. In the same forest was a human.
V tom lěse byl člověk. I think also about translations with other additional words like tože 'also', uže 'already'.
Člověk nosiše zimno paľto s plaščem i pantalony do samyh stop. A person wearing a cloaked winter coat and pants that covered even the feet.
Člověk nosil zakryty zimsky plašč, a nogavice zakryvaly mu cěle stopy.
Na jej glåve byli šapka s krznym obodkom i jednooki zaščitne naočila s žòltoj linzoj. The person was wearing a fur-rimmed hat and a one-eye goggle with a yellow lens.
jej 'her' ? "člověk" is masculine.
Na glave iměl šapku obšitu kožuhom i žolte gogle.

Topla šal kryla šijų i dužų čęsť jej lica. A face warmer extended from the neck to cover the rest of her face.
Face warmer ? I don't know. Na šiju i lice iměl zategnuty teply oblekač (?).
Člověk usędal na jedno koleno naprotiv drěva.The person sat against a tree with one leg up.
Now, I'd like to see the picture here... Maybe just: kleknul pri dreve ? (u-/pri-)sědl, but not u-sędal
V jej rųkě byl rųčny šotgan, udŕžajemy dvěma rųkami.There was a hand persuader in her grip, held with both hands between the knees.
Too much of ruka, I say. Perhaps: V rukah krepko držal težky revolver. (Here by "hands" I mean TWO of them, no less, no more)
Šotgan byl avtomatičnoj modeli s vųzkoj ramoj i podtiskateľem zvuka harmoničnogo oblika.
Byl to automatičsky model s uzkoju ramoju i supresorom v obliku harmoniky.

BTW, what strikes me in this whole story is that there is used such a heavy gun just to kill such a sweet, little bunny.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynami ... onary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 10th, 2007, 12:22 pm

September 18th, 2017, 3:17 am #6

Slovianski removed soft s as a phoneme. So los, losa, etc. instead of los', los'a
ves, vse, vsa, vsu etc.
it's not perfect, but understandable enough

I want to distinguish this case where etymologically you have a soft sound, and a grammatical ending like -ja
prasja hata - piglet's hut
where prase has a hard s sound, the -ja is a possessive adjective
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

September 19th, 2017, 7:17 am #7

Асиаронь ...
I enjoyed your work - and I equally enjoyed Bandziol's critique.
Perhaps because I so often mix/confuse my Polish with my Russian and my Russian with my Polish, I found it very easy to understand Asiaron's translation - including his use of Interslavic word-forms, such as "drěvese".
And new forms like "větrnogo světa" - perfectly understandable to me - the "sense" or "feeling" is the same - be it "wintry" or "windy".

Very challenging English text to translate.
Я приветствую тебя!


Меня зовут Стивэн/Стефан Раджиковский из Сан-Диего, Калифорния и Цуга, Швейцария через Польшу и Санкт-Петербург, Поздравления!

Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 10th, 2017, 12:48 pm

January 21st, 2018, 4:03 pm #8

Ahoj, Steeven. Jesm rady že moj počatok tolmačenja prigodil se.
Izvinite za davne odsutstvo. Vtora čest s novym pravopisanjem.

Črěz lěs šel prěmy put ograničěny srězanymi drěvesami i ukryty sněgom i ldom.
Motocykl stojal posrěd dragi.
Za sědališčem byla krěpka rama dlja bagaža, ale toliko samotna torba visěla na nej.
Motocykl byl zmeneny dlja sněznogo vremeni. Nagly podpory prikladali se k oběim bokam koles radi lěpšego kontrolja. Na koncah podporok byli podložki dlja nog s ustanovjenymi snizu malymi lyžami. Oni byli dolžny odvratiti motocycl od padenje daže jestli kolesa by poslignuli se.
“Jesm slovila jego, Hermes.”
Nekto pojavil se iz lesu s kralikom, držajuči go za nogi naopak. Zakryta kobura zatknula se diagonaljno prěd jej remenja.
“Dobro sdelany, Kino,” pohvalil motocykl zvany Hermes. “Od nyně tebe ne je trěba tratiti konservy.”
Kino kivnula, vložila kralika v torbu i navezala ju na bagažnu ramu.
Ona stegnula svoje gogle i bandanu, potom spustila svoj oblekač. Kino byla tinejdžerkoj, s kratkimi črnymi vlasami i bez jasnyh črt.
Dokolě utirala pot, ona popravila svoju šapku i odgovorila, “Tutčas da jdem vzad. Ja byh velmi žalila, ako běh odstavila jih umirati dnes.”
“Ty bys žalila?” spytal Hermes.
“Da. Izvinjajuči se.”
“Prěd kem?” opet zapytal Hermes.
Kino odpovedala, “Prěd kralikom.”
Ona zažegla Hermesa. Zvuki motora probili se skroz tišinu lesa. Nadevši svoje gogle i teply oblekač, Kino postavila svoju nogu na lyži i izjehala.

In the forest was a straight path lined with cut wood. It was covered in snow and frozen.
A motorrad stood in the middle of the road.
There was a sturdy luggage rack behind the seat of the motorrad, but instead of luggage, a lone sack was hanging from it.
The motorrad had been modified for snowy conditions. Sharp arms attached to either side of the tires provided extra grip. At the ends of the arms were footrests with small skis fixed underneath. They would prevent the motorrad from tipping even if the tires slipped.
“I got it, Hermes.”
Someone emerged from the woods with the rabbit, holding it upside-down by its tied legs. A covered holster was stuck diagonally through the front of her belt.
“Great work, Kino,” the motorrad called Hermes cheered. “Now you won’t have to resort to rations.”
Kino nodded, put the rabbit in the sack, and tied it to the luggage rack.
She pulled off her goggles and bandanna, then lowered her face warmer. Kino was in her mid-teens, with short black hair and fair features.
Casually wiping off sweat, she fixed her hat and replied, “Let’s go back, then. I’d feel sorry if I left them to die now.”
“You’d feel sorry?” asked Hermes.
“Yeah. Apologetic.”
“To whom?” Hermes asked again.
Kino replied, “To the rabbit.”
She started Hermes. The sound of the engine broke the silence in the woods. Putting on her goggles and face warmer, Kino put her feet on the skis and left.
Quote
Like
Share