Joined: January 10th, 2007, 2:10 pm

August 30th, 2014, 11:41 am #31

Oh yes, the o --> a change. So nastajatì.

Country names in -ska are declined like nouns in west Slavic and like adjectives in south Slavic. West Slavic wins.

You are right, for Slovjanska, the standard locative is v Slovjanske, while for Slovjansk, the standard locative is v Slovjansku. But we should not think readers and listeners know precisely our locative rules (I don't remember them myself, I have to check the grammar and the noun declinator).
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Joined: August 1st, 2013, 3:31 pm

August 30th, 2014, 12:10 pm #32

Ješče fonologija:

Nom. poľska poľski
Acc. poľskų poľski
Gen. poľski poľsk
Dat. poľšče poľskam
Inst. poľskojų poľskami
Loc. poľšče poľskah
Voc. poľsko


Nom. Slovjanska
Acc. Slovjanskų
Gen. Slovjanski
Dat. Slovjanšče
Inst. Slovjanskojų
Loc. Slovjanšče
Voc. Slovjansko!


Nom. Slovjanska
Acc. Slovjanskų
Gen. Slovjanskoj
Dat. Slovjanskoj
Inst. Slovjanskojų
Loc. Slovjanskoj
Voc. Slovjanska!

Osnovno najva?njej?im jest ?iťje. Ale k?gda u?e jest ?iťje, najva?njej?a je svoboda.
A pot?m daje sę ?iťje za svobodų.
I u?e ne zna sę čto je najva?niej?im.

Marek Edelman
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Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

September 1st, 2014, 8:50 am #33

Gabriel Svoboda wrote:Oh yes, the o --> a change. So nastajatì.
It' s what I thought at first, but after a while... why not nasta-va-ti (1sg. nasta-je-m) with -va- suffix from nastati (pf.) ? Like da-va-ti (1sg. da-je-m / da-va-m ?) from dati 'to give'. I don't know what rules should be applied here.
Hm... does somebody know when and how obstajati appeared in the Dictionary ?
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynami ... onary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

September 1st, 2014, 6:10 pm #34

bandziol20 wrote:"... does somebody know when and how obstajati appeared in the Dictionary ?"
First appeared on 11 May 2011
Attested in Slovenian - here
I do not have notes as to "how" or "where" this was added.
Polish cognate? - obstawać
Russian? - оставаться

Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

September 2nd, 2014, 6:48 am #35

Well, if it was borrowed from Slovenian, it's no wonder that it has this -ja- suffix; the similar situation is with Slovenian da-ti (pf.) - da-Ja-ti (ip., chosen probably for 1sg da-Je-m). It would be worth to check out in other languages.
Polish ob-stawać (przy czymś) in deed means more or less what 'to insist' (or maybe 'to persist') mean in English: that is 'to keep (lit. to stand by / around) sth permanently'.
I'm not sure about it, but Slovianski customs seem to prefer -va- suffix in such cases.

Russian has got настаивать 'to insist' could suggest being derived from настать with -ива- suffix, but looks less probable.
Vasmer writes wrote:настаивать
(на чем-либо). Вероятно, калька с нем. bestehen (то же) или франц. insister, ср.-лат. insistere, первонач. -- юридический термин.
(on sth). Probably a calque from German bestehen (the same meaning) or French insister, comp. Latin insistere, originally - a legal term.
So, it seems to be a quite new term and could be formed directly from *nastojati (present stem : nastoji-) as well, with a root-vowel shift o > a and a suffix -va-.
I've also checked the etymology of two English words
Etymonline wrote:insist (v.)
1580s, from Latin insistere "persist, dwell upon, stand upon," from in- "upon" (see in- (2)) + sistere "take a stand" (see assist). Perhaps in some cases a back-formation from insistence. Related: Insisted; insisting.
obstinate (adj.)
mid-14c., from Latin obstinatus "resolute, resolved, determined, inflexible, stubborn," past participle of obstinare "persist, stand stubbornly, set one's mind on," from ob "by" (see ob-) + stinare (related to stare "stand") from PIE *ste-no-, from root *sta- "to stand" (see stet). Related: Obstinately.
It seems to me that Slavic terms are in fact calques from Latin legal terminology. Still, I rather doubt if it would be a good way for verbal derivation in Slovianski.
---
оставаться (ip.) 'to stay, to remain'; Polish : zostawać (ip.); it's a bit different to what we consider.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynami ... onary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Joined: November 27th, 2008, 3:38 pm

September 3rd, 2014, 4:14 am #36

bandziol20 wrote:It seems to me that Slavic terms are in fact calques from Latin legal terminology. Still, I rather doubt if it would be a good way for verbal derivation in Slovianski.
A tvoje predloženja?
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MED?USLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

September 3rd, 2014, 9:06 am #37

I don't know. I was thinking about napolagati from Ukrainian наполягати, but na-stajati (the latter in Croatian) seems to be easier in morpho-structure.
Of course, there's always Western nalagati, but in Croatian it means : 1. (ip.) nakładać 'to be putting on' 2. (pf.) nakłamać, nałgać 'to lie to sb to some measure'.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynami ... onary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Joined: August 1st, 2013, 3:31 pm

September 7th, 2014, 1:50 pm #38

Nu, itak, do rěčnika dajemo 1.Slovjanija 2. Slovjanska/ 1.Slavija 2. Slovjanska? I kto seje slovesa može dati v slovnik?
Osnovno najva?njej?im jest ?iťje. Ale k?gda u?e jest ?iťje, najva?njej?a je svoboda.
A pot?m daje sę ?iťje za svobodų.
I u?e ne zna sę čto je najva?niej?im.

Marek Edelman
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Joined: January 10th, 2007, 2:10 pm

September 8th, 2014, 7:50 am #39

1. Slavija
2. Slovjanska
to be avoided at all costs: Slovjanija

Thank you all for the remark on nasta(j|v)atì!
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Joined: September 19th, 2010, 10:55 am

September 8th, 2014, 8:55 am #40

not in any case : Slovjanija
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pi?em slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynami ... onary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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