Russian pre-dreadnought BB Retvizan

Post drawings that actually exist or have existed at some point.

Russian pre-dreadnought BB Retvizan

Viking
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Viking
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May 6 2010, 08:35 PM #1



Retvizan, weird name since its from Swedish Rättvisan, meaning Righteousness or something like that...
Anyway this ship did well at the Battle of the Yellow Sea, giving the Russian fleet at Port Arthur a few more days before their final loss.

I'm lazy so its not completely finished yet, but its close I believe. Just lots of rigging left and maybe some weird doors I need to double check a bit, since maybe these are actually huge windows instead, and stuff like that.
nice boat
under construction:
HMCS Skeena
Retvizan
Ula class sub
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Novice
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May 6 2010, 08:38 PM #2

Viking
Seems interesting enough.

1. C class cruisers AAW conversions
2. HMS Delhi as AAW ship
3. HMS Milne as in Turkish service
4. French Colbert cruiser as built (maybe as missile cruiser)
5. French cruiser Algerie
6. French cruiser de Grasse as built
7. Canadian escorts of the 1950' (Cadillacs), the first allready done
8. American cargo ships from MARAD programme
9. Type 16 frigate conversions
10. TYpe 18 Never Built Frigate conversion
11. French carrier Bearn (WIP in progress)
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ALVAMA
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May 7 2010, 07:35 AM #4

Excellent! :) I always have liked Russian vessels of that kind! IIRC I've seen somewere a colored photo of that ship! :)
--NEUSTRASHIMYY--

''IK VAL AAN VOLGT MIJ'' --> ''FOLLOW ME'' Karel Doorman, 1942 Battle of the Java sea.
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Viking
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May 7 2010, 07:43 AM #5

thank you guys

here is a colored photo of the ship after being captured by Japan in 1905.



I guess I can use it a bit for improving the drawing (I forgot about it until you mentioned it...)
nice boat
under construction:
HMCS Skeena
Retvizan
Ula class sub
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Bezobrazov
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Bezobrazov
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May 7 2010, 11:09 PM #6

Rättvisan means in English 'Justice' simply. The name was given to this BB in commemoration of the Viborg Gauntlet in 1790, during the last year of the Swedish-Russian War (1788-90), and derives from one of F. H. af Chapman's ten ships-of-the-line built for King Gustavus III and for their time as advanced in technological progress as, perhaps the Aegis-ships are to us. The Swedish Rättvisan was captured after a hard and bitter fight, having grounded on one of the cobs scattered around the Finnish Archipelago. 'Retvizan' is the Russian phonetic version of the name.
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klagldsf
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May 8 2010, 12:17 AM #7

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned yet that this ship was built in the U.S. at Philadelphia.
And people wonder why Colosseum goes...well...Colosseum on them. - Faroe-Asatru
My Work List: I don't use one. I do whatever I feel like at the time. But I am working on one of them X-Hull tugs ([strike]95%, just really lazy[/strike] GONE!) and QM II ([strike]numbers don't go this low % complete[/strike] BALEETED!) and BB-4 Iowa (let's call it 60% complete)
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ALVAMA
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May 8 2010, 06:14 PM #8

klagldsf @ May 8 2010, 01:17 AM wrote: I'm surprised nobody's mentioned yet that this ship was built in the U.S. at Philadelphia.
I know I've seen a picture when leaving US harbour with a USN submarine!!
--NEUSTRASHIMYY--

''IK VAL AAN VOLGT MIJ'' --> ''FOLLOW ME'' Karel Doorman, 1942 Battle of the Java sea.
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klagldsf
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May 9 2010, 01:15 AM #9

Interestingly...you take a closer look and the only secondary guns are small anti-torpedo boat guns. Wouldn't that technically make this ship a dreadnaught?
And people wonder why Colosseum goes...well...Colosseum on them. - Faroe-Asatru
My Work List: I don't use one. I do whatever I feel like at the time. But I am working on one of them X-Hull tugs ([strike]95%, just really lazy[/strike] GONE!) and QM II ([strike]numbers don't go this low % complete[/strike] BALEETED!) and BB-4 Iowa (let's call it 60% complete)
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the_ed17
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May 17 2010, 05:18 PM #10

klagldsf @ May 9 2010, 01:15 AM wrote: Interestingly...you take a closer look and the only secondary guns are small anti-torpedo boat guns. Wouldn't that technically make this ship a dreadnaught?
I thought it carried six-inch guns? (or did the Japanese remove those?)
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Bezobrazov
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May 17 2010, 08:18 PM #11

The Retvizan carried 4 - 12' cal. 40 Obuchov guns, 12 - 6' cal. 40 and 22 3' guns, and numerous smaller ones and no, she was far, far from even being close to a semi-dreadnought, such as the Japanese Aki and Settsu, or British Lord Nelsons - let alone being able to stand in the battle-line against true dreadnoughts! (((Although the IRN:s Slava and Grashdanin (ex-Cesarevich) actually fought it out against the German dreadnought battle ships König and Kronprinz on 17th Feb. 1917. Although both ships were very heavily damaged in the process; Slava so badly that she had to be scuttled, the Obuchov guns proved themselves far superior to the German Krupp guns, outranging them with substantial margin (22,000 yards against the Germans 16,000!)))
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klagldsf
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May 17 2010, 08:39 PM #12

the_ed17 @ May 17 2010, 05:18 PM wrote:
klagldsf @ May 9 2010, 01:15 AM wrote: Interestingly...you take a closer look and the only secondary guns are small anti-torpedo boat guns. Wouldn't that technically make this ship a dreadnaught?
I thought it carried six-inch guns? (or did the Japanese remove those?)
Still, those would just be secondary anti-torpedo boat/anti-torpedo boat destroyer guns. At least in terms of main armament, she lacks 8-10 inch secondary batteries, so...a semi-dreadnaught in that regard?
And people wonder why Colosseum goes...well...Colosseum on them. - Faroe-Asatru
My Work List: I don't use one. I do whatever I feel like at the time. But I am working on one of them X-Hull tugs ([strike]95%, just really lazy[/strike] GONE!) and QM II ([strike]numbers don't go this low % complete[/strike] BALEETED!) and BB-4 Iowa (let's call it 60% complete)
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Bezobrazov
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May 17 2010, 09:49 PM #13

No, Klagldsf, not at all...not according to the definition of how the main- secondary and tertiary batteries were supposed to be employed in battle.

At the turn of the last century, the effective battle range was envisaged at about 3,000 to 5,000 yards. The main battery guns would open up the initial stage of a battle and check the range. As the two fleets or squadrons moved closer on eachother, the secondary batteries would join in, again initially checking the range, and thus both main and secondary batteries would be employed in the main course of battle. This is what the Retvizan and all her siblings were designed for. The tertiary batteries (either 3", 20 pounders or something similar) would be used to repel any torpedoboat attack (the term 'destroyer' had yet to attain a wider usage, although many navies used it in combinations such as 'torpedoboat destroyer') - So, in short, the main and secondary batteries were designated 'shipkiller' weapons, both with armor-piercing shells or HE-shells.

But the fact that spotting was inherently complicated due to the difficulty at a certain range to properly distinguish between the fall of shots and the fact that, often the secondary battery splashes obscured the main battery splashes made target acquisition and direction very difficult.

This is why ships such as the Dreadnought were ultimately designed and built...
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klagldsf
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May 17 2010, 10:32 PM #14

Yeah, but six-inch guns? C'mon. By that definition an Iowa is a fast pre-dreadnaught.
And people wonder why Colosseum goes...well...Colosseum on them. - Faroe-Asatru
My Work List: I don't use one. I do whatever I feel like at the time. But I am working on one of them X-Hull tugs ([strike]95%, just really lazy[/strike] GONE!) and QM II ([strike]numbers don't go this low % complete[/strike] BALEETED!) and BB-4 Iowa (let's call it 60% complete)
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Bezobrazov
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May 17 2010, 10:35 PM #15

I'm not making the rules, buddy! It's just the way it's been defined. if you want to change the definitions, then be my guest. I've tried to explain...I cannot do more...

And, btw, the Iowa's are very fast super dreadnoughts...
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