MODEL A or Shay Model A

Reggie Foote
Reggie Foote

November 26th, 2007, 4:15 pm #21

Karl,

My title is like yours...It lists my 1980 Shay as a 1980 Model A but there is no reference to FORD seeing it isn't a FORD....

The previous owner, also here in Florida had it also titled as a 1980 Model A....This seems to be the norm....We can change all of the emblems on our Shay's and Camelot's but they are still not 1929 or 1980's FORD'S.

Going back over some of the history in the FORUM, it's interesting how many owners have taken their cars to shows and have received awards for the best ANTIQUE or the BEST OLD FORD....Different show, different judging standards.

The only thing antique about my Shay is the OWNER!!

Reggie
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Joined: April 4th, 2006, 3:15 pm

November 26th, 2007, 9:13 pm #22

I know that our Shay's are called Shay's and are Shay's but I just like to get the car some credibility when people think that it is a kit car like they became after Shay and then after that Camelot motors went out of business and speedway motors started selling the shay in kit form. If we all get all the facts we all know about and talk it out we can defend our cars against the people that say it is a kit car!

Below I got this information from Nathan Shay's letter. I think it tells us that Shay got pinto frames from ford [ it had to be cheaper and faster to buy the frames from ford then to set up a whole shop just to build them] and that Ford dealers made about $1600 per car sold though them!

However, Mr. Shay could not build and deliver every car himself, but instead required the cooperative coalition that would become Shay Motors. The extensive experience earned from working for the big three auto producers provided Mr. Shay with the ability to integrate a 1929 Model T fiberglass body with a 1980 Ford Pinto engine and chassis.

Instead he said, "Too many dealers pressured Shay to produce cars too quickly and were too greedy and properly prep the vehicles" (BCI Nov 15, 1982). Robinson sold more than 80 replicas and had experienced little more than minor regular maintenance problems. "I took delivery of the first ones and wasn’t overly impressed with the quality; but considering it was a hand produced car, it was worth the money." Robison personally oversaw the prepping of all Shay replicas and created a 32-point checklist of prepping job which cost an average of $200 a car. He felt this was a small price to pay for a vehicle that brought an average of $1,600 profit, after prepping cost, on a $9,000 car. He said that it was the largest profit margin he had seen in his 25 years as a dealer. Further he expressed how it was in the dealers’ best interest to help keep Shay Motors afloat. "The dealers were making more profit on this automobile than any other Ford car in history," he said. Robinson personally sent out a letter to dealers telling urging them to prep the cars and to stop litigation because it was taking more time away from Shay’s ability to produce.
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Don Smith
Don Smith

November 26th, 2007, 9:56 pm #23

One of the easiest ways to defend against people insisting that it is a kit car is to refer them to the GOVERNMENT issued VIN. Most kit cars do not have unique VIN that is specific to that builder. Some kit cars may be titled under the VIN of the chassis they use, or their state issues a special number to them, but in the case of Shay/Camelot the VIN's were ONLY for Shay or Camelot, not Ford,Chrylser,GM ect.

Don Smith
Vice President, SOCI
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Joined: June 7th, 2005, 12:16 pm

November 26th, 2007, 10:25 pm #24

I know that our Shay's are called Shay's and are Shay's but I just like to get the car some credibility when people think that it is a kit car like they became after Shay and then after that Camelot motors went out of business and speedway motors started selling the shay in kit form. If we all get all the facts we all know about and talk it out we can defend our cars against the people that say it is a kit car!

Below I got this information from Nathan Shay's letter. I think it tells us that Shay got pinto frames from ford [ it had to be cheaper and faster to buy the frames from ford then to set up a whole shop just to build them] and that Ford dealers made about $1600 per car sold though them!

However, Mr. Shay could not build and deliver every car himself, but instead required the cooperative coalition that would become Shay Motors. The extensive experience earned from working for the big three auto producers provided Mr. Shay with the ability to integrate a 1929 Model T fiberglass body with a 1980 Ford Pinto engine and chassis.

Instead he said, "Too many dealers pressured Shay to produce cars too quickly and were too greedy and properly prep the vehicles" (BCI Nov 15, 1982). Robinson sold more than 80 replicas and had experienced little more than minor regular maintenance problems. "I took delivery of the first ones and wasn’t overly impressed with the quality; but considering it was a hand produced car, it was worth the money." Robison personally oversaw the prepping of all Shay replicas and created a 32-point checklist of prepping job which cost an average of $200 a car. He felt this was a small price to pay for a vehicle that brought an average of $1,600 profit, after prepping cost, on a $9,000 car. He said that it was the largest profit margin he had seen in his 25 years as a dealer. Further he expressed how it was in the dealers’ best interest to help keep Shay Motors afloat. "The dealers were making more profit on this automobile than any other Ford car in history," he said. Robinson personally sent out a letter to dealers telling urging them to prep the cars and to stop litigation because it was taking more time away from Shay’s ability to produce.
Pat,
Do a search on this forum for NHTSA. In October of this year I posted a page from The NATIONAL HIGHWAY & TRAFFIC SAFTEY ASSOC web site. Which is the Governments department that controls the auto industry. They list Shay as a Manufacturer. Print out the page and show it to anyone who doubts. I spent several months helping prove to the state of New York that Shay Motors was in fact a licensed manufaturer and the vehicles should be titled as "SHAY". Also if I'm not mistaken Pinto was a unibody car and thus had no chasis.

RON
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ronald gautney
ronald gautney

November 27th, 2007, 12:22 am #25

i have four shay-two model a which is title in the state
of florida as 1980 fords-two tunderbird-one is listed as
a rebuild real 1955 t.bird in the state of florida the other one is listed as 1955 shay t.bird- it just depends
on what state you in-i have also owned a camelot in the
state of florida -it was listed as a replica-i sold the
camelot because i could never get use to the steering-
i have a 1925 model t listed as a horseless carrige with
a lifetime tag as long as i own the car-i really do not
care how there are listed-as long as i get to drive and
enjoy them-just my thoughts
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Joined: October 10th, 2000, 1:07 am

November 27th, 2007, 12:45 am #26

I know that our Shay's are called Shay's and are Shay's but I just like to get the car some credibility when people think that it is a kit car like they became after Shay and then after that Camelot motors went out of business and speedway motors started selling the shay in kit form. If we all get all the facts we all know about and talk it out we can defend our cars against the people that say it is a kit car!

Below I got this information from Nathan Shay's letter. I think it tells us that Shay got pinto frames from ford [ it had to be cheaper and faster to buy the frames from ford then to set up a whole shop just to build them] and that Ford dealers made about $1600 per car sold though them!

However, Mr. Shay could not build and deliver every car himself, but instead required the cooperative coalition that would become Shay Motors. The extensive experience earned from working for the big three auto producers provided Mr. Shay with the ability to integrate a 1929 Model T fiberglass body with a 1980 Ford Pinto engine and chassis.

Instead he said, "Too many dealers pressured Shay to produce cars too quickly and were too greedy and properly prep the vehicles" (BCI Nov 15, 1982). Robinson sold more than 80 replicas and had experienced little more than minor regular maintenance problems. "I took delivery of the first ones and wasn’t overly impressed with the quality; but considering it was a hand produced car, it was worth the money." Robison personally oversaw the prepping of all Shay replicas and created a 32-point checklist of prepping job which cost an average of $200 a car. He felt this was a small price to pay for a vehicle that brought an average of $1,600 profit, after prepping cost, on a $9,000 car. He said that it was the largest profit margin he had seen in his 25 years as a dealer. Further he expressed how it was in the dealers’ best interest to help keep Shay Motors afloat. "The dealers were making more profit on this automobile than any other Ford car in history," he said. Robinson personally sent out a letter to dealers telling urging them to prep the cars and to stop litigation because it was taking more time away from Shay’s ability to produce.
As I said before Shay made their own FRAMES ! see article below. Gary



Gary M Wood
Webmaster
Shay Model A Website
www.geocities.com/shaymodela/
SOCI Membership Chairman



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Joined: January 23rd, 2005, 12:36 am

November 27th, 2007, 1:35 am #27

As Gary's article points out they made their own frame but when demand was high they had outside venders make them also.

My frame has a plate welded behind the left rear wheel:

SELLERS MFG INC
WAKARUSA , IND
SERIAL # ID 00067

I guess they farmed it out to many different venders as time went by.

The bottom line is , Shay was the manafacture and we get to enjoy them and put any name we wish on the car. Our various state goverments do the same.

But it is a GREAT car to have fun with!

I love to just drive around and have the kids yell " blow the horn" makes my day. These kids have never seen a car like this . But us old guys remember driving them with those GREAT brakes and saving our money to get a newer car.
YES , them were the years!!!!!!!!!!

NY-Bob
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Tom Collins
Tom Collins

November 27th, 2007, 2:32 am #28

A rose is a rose no matter what it is called. Our Shay is great to drive and enjoy.
The great state of Arizona titled our Shay a 29 Ford Roadster, despite all of the paper work and the
a Shay VIN. TBut they did use the VIN number.
Their reasoning is the car should be titled what it looks like.
That was okay because no more emissions testing and the coolest Solid Copper license plates.
Hagerty Insurance recognizes Shays for what they are
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Joined: July 30th, 2007, 1:27 pm

November 27th, 2007, 6:15 pm #29

Why do we call it a Shay Model A except that Shay fit the body to a special "Ford" chassis for Ford? It seems to me that the car should be referrred to as a 1980 Ford model A. After all, it "was" only sold by Ford and built to Fords specifications.
Karl
Thanks again for all the good comments and information. I whole heartedly agree that when all is said and done it is certainly a fun, reliable car to drive. I bought ours because my wife always said she liked the older cars like the Model A better that my '51. She was interested in driving it and I knew she would get very discouraged driving a real Model A, besides the safty aspects (brakes, steering, non syncro transmission) so I began the search for a Shay Model A. This is "her" car and she loves driving it. She never went to car shows with me. Now she does, but in her "A" and me in my '51. She does let me drive it. I talked about changing the seat to a couple small buckets and was informed that it wouldn't look "right" if I did that so I'm going to see if I can angle the back somehow.
When people ask what year it is I tell them it's a 1980 Model A.

Karl
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