- tough dime die pairs i've found, die pairs that don't fit neatly/easily into Gerry's web book and/or better examples -

ken-pollock
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Joined: January 15th, 2018, 10:46 am

January 15th, 2018, 11:41 am #1

this is an:  1839-O  F-109  (R6)   " Lapped Die, Stars 1-3 Weak / Small O, Rev 1840-O "
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/date ... 09page.htm

Gerry's quote from the comments section: ...."More difficult is Varieties 107 and 109, which is the pairing of the 1839-O Huge O lapped obverse die with two different Small O reverse dies.  The first pairing is with Small O Reverse B and should command a very significant premium if available.  The final pairing of the Huge O obverse with a second Small O Reverse G is also very rare at this time with two examples extant.".... link: http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/date ... arpage.htm

so even if this coin of mine, looks like it's been through a war or something like that, it may be only the 3rd example known(?).

1839 o dime F-109 R6 pics jan 2018c2 029a.jpg 1839 o dime F-109 R6 pics jan 2018c2 025a.jpg
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ken-pollock
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May 22nd, 2018, 5:30 pm #2

1856-O - Variety 103 - Obverse 1.3: Medium Level Date, Die Cracks Star 6 Through Star 11, Clashed Die ... Reverse C: Medium O, [mm Lt,C], Die Crack From Right Lower Wreath To Rim
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/date ... 03page.htm  
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/date ... arpage.htm

quoting Gerry: "Obverse 1 has been polished or lapped". Gerry gives this die pair a rarity estimate of R7 for VF-Mint State grades (edit/update 5/25/2018: according to Gerry's Obverse & Reverse Die Gallery with Rarity Rating page for this die pair::  http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/pictorial/1856o.htm  - it's a Rarity: R5+. so since rarity estimates tend to go lower over time and not higher, R5+ is probably more accurate). i estimate my new find & purchase to be ~F12. the "1" in my coin's date is very much disappearing. (edit) i forgot to mention: the dies used on my coin were slightly rotated. i rotated my obverse to compensate for this when i took my pics. i took my pics through a flip fwiw.

5-22-2018  1856-O - med O - F-103 - R7 - lapped obvs 002a.jpg
5-22-2018  1856-O - med O - F-103 - R7 - lapped obvs 008a.jpg
Last edited by ken-pollock on May 25th, 2018, 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ken-pollock
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May 23rd, 2018, 7:28 pm #3

1890 Variety 103:  Obverse 3: Proof Die, High Date, Downward Slope...Reverse C: Proof Die

quoting Gerry: "CommentsFour die pairs were used to strike 1890 proof coinage. The rarity of the individual die pairs has not been assessed." 

this coin i recently found & purchased was not listed as a proof...it was just listed as a circulated business strike coin. i think it's in the AU53+ range. Gerry gives the F-103 proof die pair an R4 rarity estimate. *** since this coin has a strongly clashed obvs. and a clashed revs. w/ die cracks also, i suspect this later die state example of F-103 would likely be even less common and receive a higher R rating. i think clashing and die cracks on proof dies are uncommon features. variety F-103a is the business strike die pair...i see differences in the dates between the F-103 proof die pair & the F-103a-c business strike die series, so some updating to the web-book is needed here.*** 

http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/date ... 03page.htm
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/date ... arpage.htm
http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/4787 5-23-2018  1890 dime R4+ proof die later die state of F-103 038a obvs.jpg
5-23-2018  1890 dime R4+ proof die later die state of F-103 034a.jpg
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ken-pollock
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June 11th, 2018, 8:38 pm #4

*** 1891-O (this is a new die pair) ***  it's similar to F-115 & F-132 with regard to date position. there's heavy obverse clashing, a clashed "E"showing (i like clashed "E" L.S. dimes) and some die cracks. i consider the reverse to be a shattered reverse with at least 5 die cracks radiating out to the rim. the reverse is also clashed. it think the coin's in the AU53 range.

http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/date ... arpage.htm
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/date ... 15page.htm
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/date ... 32page.htm
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/pictorial/1891o.htm

1891-o Liberty Seated Dime. au 53+ looks like F-115 but it isn't obvrs.jpg
1891-o Liberty Seated Dime. au 53+ looks like F-115 but it isn't revs.jpg 1891-o Liberty Seated Dime. au 53+ looks like F-115 but it isn't obvrs-date.jpg 1891-o Liberty Seated Dime. au 53+ looks like F-115 but it isn't revs-mint.jpg
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ken-pollock
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June 27th, 2018, 11:28 am #5

1891-O (pcgs graded XF45)...F-124...R3...this coin has much more/shows much more detail than Gerry's VF20 example on the variety 124 page. the obverse on my coin is clashed and shows a clashed "E". both sides have die cracks. the reverse is also clashed. on the 1891-O main page Gerry lists the F-124 as being: [Medium Date, Down Slope]  which i think it is (a medium high date). on his F-124 page he lists this die pair as: [Obverse 21: High Date, Downward Slope]. both pages should say medium date imo.

 1891-O die pair main page ... 1891-O die pair/variety F-124

6-27-2018  PCGS XF45 1891-o dime pics F-124 R3 better than webbk 003a.jpg 6-27-2018  PCGS XF45 1891-o dime pics F-124 R3 better than webbk 013a.jpg
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ken-pollock
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June 28th, 2018, 10:08 am #6

 1886-S ... F-102 ... R6 (Gerry's Variety Rarity Estimates are for VF - Mint State). i think the condition of this coin is ~ VG08. Gerry suggests a premium of 100-300% for this die pair. some other things Gerry wrote: "Variety 102 is much rarer than Variety 101 in circulated grades." and "Variety 102 is much more difficult to locate than Variety 101. I would estimate that at least fifteen to twenty Variety 101 specimens will be seen for every Variety 102. When Variety 102 specimens are located, they tend to be in higher grades between EF and Mint State."

1886-S die pair/variety page ... F-102 page ... 1886-S Die Gallery

s-l1600 1886 s obvs a F-102 R6 ~ 15x less than F-101.jpg s-l1600 1886 s revs a F-102 R6 ~ 15x less than F-101.jpg
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ken-pollock
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June 28th, 2018, 5:00 pm #7

*** an 1891-P proof die pair was apparently used to strike my coin shown here.*** the date position is very similar to F-119 but the die crack from Liberty's foot to the last A in America is not the same as the die crack in the same area on F-119. also the O mint-mark is not the same (the center circle part of the O tilts more to the right, the entire O is off-set more to the left) and the reverse clashing is different. no other die pairs are listed with the date punched this far to the left. so, this now becomes another new 1891-O die pair and not an earlier die state of F-119 as i had previously thought (i think that now makes 3 new die pairs and this one would be F-135 based on when i actually realized & posted about the discovery here...in this case/with this coin, it coincides with when i updated this post: on Sept. 11, 2018). 

i think my coin is ~ AU53+. the obverse is heavily clashed (looks clashed twice & w/ a clashed E under her left forearm). the reverse is clashed also. i will also post an online picture from a PCGS coin: an 1891-P PCGS PF66 Cert no. 08659601 .... here are some links to follow up on:

1891-O Fortin die pair/variety page ... F-119 page ... PCGS CoinFacts: Images for PCGS # 4788
PCGS CoinFacts 1891 10C (Proof) page ... link to the PCGS proof 66 coin below


THIS IS MY COIN:

6-28-2018  1891-o  dime F-119  R4 proof dies from 1891-P mint 041a obvs.jpg 6-28-2018  1891-o  dime NEW DIE PAIR  proof dies from 1891-P mint 041a obvsa.jpg

6-28-2018  1891-o  dime F-119  R4 proof dies from 1891-P mint 033a revs.jpg 6-28-2018  1891-o  dime NEW DIE PAIR  proof dies from 1891-P 033a revsa.jpg

This is the 1891 PCGS PF66 with Cert # 08659601 (that i provided links to above). this coin is an example of an 1891-P proof coin (die pair) that my coin and the 1891-O F-119 coins apparently came from:

1891-P PCGS PF66 Cert no. 08659601a obvs.jpg 1891-P PCGS PF66 Cert no. 08659601a revs.jpg
Last edited by ken-pollock on September 11th, 2018, 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ken-pollock
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Joined: January 15th, 2018, 10:46 am

July 10th, 2018, 7:30 am #8

1886 Proof Dimes: Gerry Fortin identifies 2 proof die pairs for this date: F-103 & F-104 ... these 2 die pairs look like the same/just one die pair to me (to my eyes). PCGS has many high grade proof coin pictures for this date here: PCGS CoinFacts Proof 1886 ... the first coin shown is an example of the Fortin 103/104 die pair: Grade 67 Cert# 83234248 ... two more examples of this die pair are here: Grade 66+ Cert# 06666882 & Grade 64 Cert# 35395068 ... 11 out of the 19 graded proof coins PCGS shows are of a die pair that Gerry does not have listed on his 1886 variety/die pair page: 1886 die pair/variety page ... my coin shown below is a coin produced from this unlisted proof die pair. i think it's condition is ~ PF63-PF64. here are some links to PCGS pictures of this die pair: Grade 67 Cert# 25251781 ... Grade 67 Cert# 25252118 ... Grade 66 Cert# 84688165 . so at this point, there seems to be two proof die pairs for this date. Gerry only has one of these listed presently.

7-9-2018  1886 proof dime PCGS grades it...no Fortin number obvs.jpg  

7-9-2018  1886 proof dime PCGS grades it...no Fortin number rev.jpg
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ken-pollock
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Joined: January 15th, 2018, 10:46 am

July 14th, 2018, 1:48 pm #9

1860 F-109 (R4) vs F-111 (R6) comparison help. my coin shown below appears to me to be an F-109 in XF40 condition. Gerry says this about the F-109: Obverse 9: Repunched 86, Medium Level Date, Bases of 1 Thick...Reverse I: Clashed Die....and this about the F-111: Obverse 11: Rim Cud at 10:00, Medium Level Date, Bases of 1 Thin...Reverse K: Perfect Die.


Gerry's comments from the F-111 page: "On Obverse 11, there is a huge rim cud at 10:00. The date position is nearly identical to Obverse 9 which has a repunched date. At first, the attribution of Obverse 11 considered that it might be a later die state or lapped die version for Obverse 9. However, from the plate coin, there is insufficient evidence to make a firm conclusion. Therefore this variety is listed separately for the time being.

This reverse is perfect with no diagnostics to note."


one difference between these two die pairs that i noticed, by looking at & studying the plate coin pictures for both pairs, is that the D in DIME for the F-111 pair seems to slope downward to the right slightly. the D on the F-109 pair, to my eyes, does not do this. also, my coin below was produced by a slightly rotated die pair. die rotation wasn't mentioned for either of these varieties.

1860 variety page ... F-109 ... F-111

* also fwiw, i photographed my coin through the mylar windows of a new white cardboard flip i had just put around it. *

7-14-2018  1860  dime F-109  R4  XF40 slightly rotated dies 010a.jpg
7-14-2018  1860  dime F-109  R4  XF40 slightly rotated dies 016a.jpg
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ken-pollock
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Joined: January 15th, 2018, 10:46 am

July 17th, 2018, 6:36 pm #10

*** updated about 30 minutes after posting *** it may be the case/it may be true that there really are only two 1887 dime proof die pairs. i was studying my coin's pics, Gerry's F-101 pics along with PCGS's...i like to at least double or triple check my work. it may be that the die lines on the F-101 die pair started to wear away though striking along with some of the die's detail. regardless, it looks like my coin may be an example of a business strike from F-101 proof dies. by studying many of the coin pictures listed/linked here, i am now unsure about there being any differences in the tilt of the first 1 in the date. this 1 varies in shape and thickness apparently, somewhat. maybe studying the strike detail of Liberty's head and/or the strike detail of the wheat on the upper left reverse (how well these areas and others were struck...how much die wear was occurring) may help clarify things. 

Gerry's comments from his F-101 proof die/variety page: "Proof Obverse 1 exhibits a faint die line to the right of the shield. The die line exits the right edge of the shield and moves in an upward diagonal direction. I have yet to locate a business strike example from this obverse die. Given the very high 1887 date mintage and general availability, it is difficult to determine if the proof die pair was again used for business strikes."


--- my original post is below the dotted line  --
                                                           ------------------------------------------------------------------


1887 proof coins and the business strikes made from these proof die pairs1887 die pair/varieties page

Gerry lists 2 proof die pairs/proof varieties for this date: F-101 (R3) and F-117 (R6) 

a third proof die pair is evident by looking at the PCGS high end graded proofs here: 1887 PCGS proof dime image page

my high grade coin (probably MS65+), that i'll post pics of below was produced from this 3rd proof die pair. my coin has die cracks in a circular pattern, on both it's obverse & reverse. there's also rather heavy clashing on the reverse. the clashing between the D, I and M in DIME is uncommon in my experience. since this coin has so many die cracks and a lot of clashing...plus it seems to be lacking some of the proof strike detail for this die pair (maybe)...i think it was likely a business strike of this 3rd 1887 proof die pair. some of the things that differentiate this die pair from Gerry's F-101 & F-117 are: it does not have the extra/added obverse die lines Gerry mentions (the obverse lines differ for both the F-101 & F-117), the first 1 in the date is tilted slightly to the left [it's base points slightly upward toward the first 8, whereas the right side of the base of the first 1 (for F-101) points slightly downward...and this same 1 digit on the F-117 die pair appears to be level].

some PCGS examples of this 3rd 1887 proof die pair: Grade 67+ Cert# 25607951 ... Grade 66 Cert# 25303192 ... Grade 64 Cert# 35139909

7-17-2018  1887  dime high grade new die pair 1 in date tilts up 024 obvs-a.jpg 7-17-2018  1887  dime high grade new die pair 1 in date tilts up 024 obvs-date.jpg 7-17-2018  1887  dime high grade new die pair 1 in date tilts up 016 revs-a.jpg
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