1838 V-3 ?

Joined: October 25th, 2015, 9:48 pm

April 4th, 2018, 10:27 pm #1

I just picked up this coin for my variety collection. From the auction photos, I thought it might be the V-10 obverse paired with a different reverse. The obverse has doubling at star 1 and rim crumbling below the date (at least), which would make it later than the state(s) of the V-10 obverse, but it does not have the reverse damage.

I took my own photos tonight, and took a good in-hand look as well. Now I think it may be a V-3. But there are some inconsistencies with what's shown in the Flynn book. The doubling at star 1 matches the V-3 photo in Flynn better than star 1 in V-10. Flynn mentions rim break from 3 to 4:30. My coin has it from about 3:30 to about 5:30, much obscured by the wide PCGS prong. There is something that may be the flaw in the right field mentioned by Valentine. The reverse has the clash from A1 to O(F) mentioned by Valentine and shown in Flynn, but not the crack at M (Flynn). Clint's old 1838 guide indicates that the reverse is that of 1837 V-2. There is a hint of the "nicked leaf" but I don't see any doubling at the right feet of T2 and A2.




Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 7:44 am

April 5th, 2018, 8:12 am #2

I believe your coin at least has the V-3 obverse.
And it is mostly consistent with the V-3 reverse.
The main missing reverse die marker is the M crack, but your coin could simply be from an earlier die state than the Flynn coin.
The V-10 obverse has a wildly repunched S1 and does not have the rim cud below the last 8 in the date and reaching almost to S12.

Below are photos of what I believe are two other V-3 examples, originally posted on the Coin Universe Forum in 2009 and 2010.
The original photos are no longer viewable on the threads due to the photobucket disaster, but I downloaded them prior to that.

The V-3 obverse die markers are:
1. S1 doubled top point (relative to normal coin alignment)
2. Crack above S13.
3. Rim cud (similar to the V-7, V-8 rim cud, but a different pattern).
3.a. EDS? from under second 8 in date, nearly to S12  (Alan Welty example)
3.b. MDS? from at least the toe, nearly to S12  (Kevin Flynn book example, photo cropped after toe and cud partly obscured by slab)
3.c. LDS from under first 8 in date, to under S12 (Tom DeLorey example)

The V-3 reverse die markers are:
1. (MDS?, LDS) Crack at upper L serif of M
2. (LDS) Crack at upper R serif of E3, or possibly there are 3 parallel die erosion lines above E3.
3. Clash line from T2 to O.

The first is a PCGS MS-64 posted in 2009 by Tom DeLorey and attributed both by him and by Mr. HalfDime as V-3 (after some deliberation).
https://forums.collectors.com/discussio ... lf-dime/p1
1838 v3 MS-64 200910 cuf CaptHenway obv.jpg
1838 v3 MS-64 200910 cuf CaptHenway obv stars 1 2.jpg doubled top point on S1
1838 v3 MS-64 200910 cuf CaptHenway obv stars 12 13.jpg crack above S13
1838 v3 MS-64 200910 cuf CaptHenway obv date.jpg LDS rim cud detail under date
1838 v3 MS-64 200910 cuf CaptHenway rev.jpg reverse showing C M, C E3, clash line TATES O
1838 v3 MS-64 200910 cuf CaptHenway rev notched leaf.jpg notched leaf
1838 v3 MS-64 200910 cuf CaptHenway rev notched leaf crop.jpg
The second example is a PCGS MS-65, posted to the Coin Universe  US Coins Buy, Sell and Trade Forum in 2010 by user malachi555.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussio ... -type-s/p1
No attributions were offered in the thread.
1838 v3 MS-65 201007 cuf malachi555 obv.jpg
Doubled top point on S1 and Crack above S13 are clear.  Obverse rim cud is hidden by slab.
1838 v3 MS-65 201007 cuf malachi555 rev.jpg Crack at M and clash line are clear