!!!! WARNING !!!! Do not warm-up with a weighted club!

!!!! WARNING !!!! Do not warm-up with a weighted club!

Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

April 11th, 2010, 4:47 pm #1

Thanks to Allen S, I have spent the better part of the last month or so researching and reading about increasing club head speed....beyond what The Blueprint prescribes in it's training. I read a lot of papers outside of golf about this, some of what I found was fluff, and some was not.

One of the concepts that kept bubbling to the surface was that in order "to be fast, you must train fast." In other words, while slow motion exercises and drills are essential for developing technique and increasing club head speed, if you want to generate greater speed, the only way you develop the motor neural paths for faster speed is by actively engaging them. Sports trainers call this "overpseed training". The idea is to go faster than your normal so that you learn to acquire the proper motor neural paths and develop the appropriate muscle fibers that are utilized for generating explosive power. Some examples of this outside of golf would be sprinters now run downhill, swimmers are pulled through the water at a high rate of speed on top of the water, baseball pitchers through a ball lighter than the normal one.

There is now almost universal agreement across different sports that you need to train for flexibility/strength AND train for explosive power. Strength does not equal power. Old school was Jason Zubak (Bulky strength)...new school is Jamie Sadlowski and Bubba Watson ( bulk not needed ). Core training is great for preventing injury to lower back, but doesn't do much for increasing club head speed. Only by training fast will you actually develop the motor neural pathways and "recruit" the fast twitch muscle fibers that are needed for explosive speed.

This video clip is a nice summary of why swinging weights actually slows you down. Watch that video and if you warm up with a weighted club to loosen your muscles, that is fine. But make sure that you finish your warm up by swinging something lighter than your driver before you tee off.

I have modified my training regime so that it incorporates this concept of overload/underload training. What I do is swing my swing pipe in slow motion back and forth to loosen up, gradually increasing the speed and tempo until I am making a full turn and almost swinging at full speed. I do this for about a minute to 2 minutes. This is my overload training for strength and flexibility. Then I swing my "underload club" - an old steel shafted persimmon driver that I removed the club head from. I swing this for about a minute at my regular swing rate to tour tempo tones - all I am thinking about is going as fast as I can. Then I hit four shots on manual, and finish with four shots on clearkey. I repeat this process three times. I finish by hitting some shots with full swing to tour tempo and on clearkey.

While I haven't been on a launch monitor yet since beginning this program, nor hit actual shots outside to gauge my distance, judging from the sound of my swoosh, and the crack of the ball, I believe I have increased my club head speed. Also, shot dispersion seems to have improved, and my shoulders, arms and hands are sore in spots that they hadn't been before - indicating other muscles have been brought into play.

My last monitor session was at a club fitters over two months ago and my driver club head speed topped out at around 110ish, with a ball speed of 155-160. I have a ball fitting session this Tuesday and am anxious to see if gains have been made - I will report back and if things are as I expect...it will mean another section must be added to The Blueprint!

Fascinating reading about fast twitch fibers, fast twitch recruitment, overspeed training, etc. if you want to google. One thing's for sure though...no more warming up exclusively with just a weighted club!

Kevin
"A Blueprint For Golf Excellence"

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
Last edited by mcirishman57 on April 12th, 2010, 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

April 11th, 2010, 5:21 pm #2

I saw another sports science show where they had a golfer doing the same experiment. In that case they said that the clubhead speed increased slightly after using the weighted club but the distance decreased due to off center hits. At least that is what I remember.

I have another theory in this regard and that is that swinging a weighted club can cause one to shank. I think this to be especially true in the case of an extremely heavy club, something that I have done in the past. My reasoning is that the muscles used to hold the club up are moving the weight in the shank direction that is away from the golfer. So then those muscles are activated during the real swing and the clubhead moves out away from the body causing my favorite shot... It is just a theory but I noticed that I would shank after practicing slow motion drills with a really heavy club (a big piece of pipe or also a 12lb splitting mall).

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

April 12th, 2010, 11:41 am #3

I initially resisted these thoughts and ideas, as they ran counter to everything I had done and am doing to get to where I am currently. ALL my improvement and gains came from doing slow motion drills with heavy pipes and clubs. I mean 110 mph is not mammoth...but it is still pretty good for this 52 year old. Still, there was an awful lot of material out there and the more I read the more intrigued I became, so I kept reading.

I was reading an article about "recruiting" fast twitch fibers and how normally they are the last to be recruited - specific training is needed to develop these, and that atrophy can in fact set in if they are not developed. DING DING DING alarms sounded, and light bulbs came on.

I thought of my inexplicable loss of iron distance last year and how I had spent most of the early spring hitting slow motion 1/2 swing Rifle Barrel drills...could it be this practice had trained me to swing slower, and caused my fast twitch fibers to "go to sleep" on me? (I don't have any "hard data" to support this conclusion except that video showed that on irons I was indeed turning less and "armsing" the swing a lot more than on my driver.) The Extension/Rifle barrel drill is great while building and acquiring the swing, but according to what I read, once your technique is acquired, your need to utilize that technique at beyond your "on field" speed to maximize your potential for club head speed.

This winter I have trained differently. I first focused on making a full turn and then increasing the turn and backswing even more as I made the Vital/Move. I trained for this in very slow motion with my swing pipe, and then gradually added speed and progressed til I was able to execute a full turn swing at 100% swing speed doing a two handed Divot Master 2 / Golden Exercise part c to tour tempo. I checked myself on video and compared my driver swing to my iron swing. Mucho better....

Now I have come to this. I even thought of old school Harvey Penick saying - "Always hit it as hard as you can...if you learn to hit it easy, it will be difficult to hit it hard later. I always teach my students to hit it hard from the beginning". I wrote Carey Mumford and asked him about the application of clearkey principles to acquiring more speed. His answer was interesting - his concern was "why - what is the goal?" Not a problem unless the training takes you out of your style - in an effort to add speed are you moving back into the third dimension and leave the automatic principle and the subconscious behind. His concern was the end result - will it help me play better? The important thing is to play within your style and not diminish your efforts by trying for something beyond your potential...unless you are trying to enter the LD events..then that is different altogether. He referred back to the process and told me of weight lifter who was one of his clients. he came to Carey and just by applying clearkey principles, added 50 lbs to his bench press with no additional training...You always get your best on clearkey.

But what if there is more to be had? What if there is more power and accuracy lying dormant within us waiting to be awakened. Shouldn't we strive to maximize this...of course we should..if we think it will help us play better...or hit it longer...if that will help us play better. That's where i am at....

I think I am "onto to something" though....

Kevin

"A Blueprint For Golf Excellence"








Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 12th, 2010, 12:10 pm #4

While you can train fast twitch muscles, 'recruitment' is largely determined by the %MMT that a muscle is being required to generate. There is little in a golf swing that will reach a level of MMT that will cause recruitment of fast twitch fibers.

Peter
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

April 12th, 2010, 2:26 pm #5

You have mentioned this before several times. It flies in the face of a lot of commonly held beliefs, one 'worlds leading golf scientist' would seem to disagree as he states that the way to increase clubhead speed is to develop fast twitch muscle fiber. He is not alone.

My questions are:

Could you be wrong about the recruitment of fast twitch muscle fibers in the golf swing?
If fast twitch muscle fibers are recruited then which muscles are we talking about?
Is it possible that long drive folks recruit fast twitch muscles fibers in their all out swings? There certainly does appear to be some maximum muscle strain in those swings.
Is it more likely that baseball players recruit fast twitch muscle fibers when swinging a bat?
How about when throwing a baseball?

Regards, Herbert
Last edited by gHerbert on April 12th, 2010, 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

April 12th, 2010, 6:14 pm #6

I initially resisted these thoughts and ideas, as they ran counter to everything I had done and am doing to get to where I am currently. ALL my improvement and gains came from doing slow motion drills with heavy pipes and clubs. I mean 110 mph is not mammoth...but it is still pretty good for this 52 year old. Still, there was an awful lot of material out there and the more I read the more intrigued I became, so I kept reading.

I was reading an article about "recruiting" fast twitch fibers and how normally they are the last to be recruited - specific training is needed to develop these, and that atrophy can in fact set in if they are not developed. DING DING DING alarms sounded, and light bulbs came on.

I thought of my inexplicable loss of iron distance last year and how I had spent most of the early spring hitting slow motion 1/2 swing Rifle Barrel drills...could it be this practice had trained me to swing slower, and caused my fast twitch fibers to "go to sleep" on me? (I don't have any "hard data" to support this conclusion except that video showed that on irons I was indeed turning less and "armsing" the swing a lot more than on my driver.) The Extension/Rifle barrel drill is great while building and acquiring the swing, but according to what I read, once your technique is acquired, your need to utilize that technique at beyond your "on field" speed to maximize your potential for club head speed.

This winter I have trained differently. I first focused on making a full turn and then increasing the turn and backswing even more as I made the Vital/Move. I trained for this in very slow motion with my swing pipe, and then gradually added speed and progressed til I was able to execute a full turn swing at 100% swing speed doing a two handed Divot Master 2 / Golden Exercise part c to tour tempo. I checked myself on video and compared my driver swing to my iron swing. Mucho better....

Now I have come to this. I even thought of old school Harvey Penick saying - "Always hit it as hard as you can...if you learn to hit it easy, it will be difficult to hit it hard later. I always teach my students to hit it hard from the beginning". I wrote Carey Mumford and asked him about the application of clearkey principles to acquiring more speed. His answer was interesting - his concern was "why - what is the goal?" Not a problem unless the training takes you out of your style - in an effort to add speed are you moving back into the third dimension and leave the automatic principle and the subconscious behind. His concern was the end result - will it help me play better? The important thing is to play within your style and not diminish your efforts by trying for something beyond your potential...unless you are trying to enter the LD events..then that is different altogether. He referred back to the process and told me of weight lifter who was one of his clients. he came to Carey and just by applying clearkey principles, added 50 lbs to his bench press with no additional training...You always get your best on clearkey.

But what if there is more to be had? What if there is more power and accuracy lying dormant within us waiting to be awakened. Shouldn't we strive to maximize this...of course we should..if we think it will help us play better...or hit it longer...if that will help us play better. That's where i am at....

I think I am "onto to something" though....

Kevin

"A Blueprint For Golf Excellence"








Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
Yep 110 is pretty darn good. The last I checked I topped out at 102 or so.

Have you seen this article:
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/fast-tw ... scles.html

Interesting that training for a personal best can be done by resting an extra week or two! I like the idea of the cheetah laying around all day and then making one all out burst to catch prey and train fast twitch muscles at the same time! The cheetah probably stretches a bit during the day also. Not a bad life I guess...

It seems that speed training in general involves hi muscle effort and low reps with maximum mental engagement. Reminds of the guy who sold drivers on infomercials and yelled every time he hit the ball.

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

April 12th, 2010, 7:30 pm #7

While you can train fast twitch muscles, 'recruitment' is largely determined by the %MMT that a muscle is being required to generate. There is little in a golf swing that will reach a level of MMT that will cause recruitment of fast twitch fibers.

Peter
All still very new to me...

From what I have read is that some people have more slow twitch, some have more fast twitch...that is what it is and is what we are born with. I believe I get that. The emphasis of the training is to bring whatever fast twitch muscles are there into pre-eminence in their development and utilization. This is what I understood the term "recruitment" to mean.

I am not quite sure what you mean by this statement:

".... 'recruitment' is largely determined by the %MMT that a muscle is being required to generate. There is little in a golf swing that will reach a level of MMT that will cause recruitment of fast twitch fibers."

So the question(s):

What do you mean by MMT? Does this mean Manual Muscle Testing?

Do you mean Mass Muscle Tissue?

So two immediate issues here - what is meant by recruitment of fast twitch muscle fiber...and what is meant by your use of the acronym MMT?

The real issue is what DOES aid in the development of/recruitment of fast twitch muscles? I have read about the speed chains, isometric resistance band training to name two in addition to the method I am currently employing - which was just the easiest for me to start testing. What could you point me/us to does cause the recruitment of fast twitch muscles that are used in the golf swing?

The other issue besides the muscle fiber training / recruitment is the creation of the motor neural pathways for swinging faster. I can swing my lighter shaft faster, so I am "learning" at the motor neural level faster golf swing speed.

Thank you,

Kevin



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

April 12th, 2010, 8:30 pm #8

Yep 110 is pretty darn good. The last I checked I topped out at 102 or so.

Have you seen this article:
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/fast-tw ... scles.html

Interesting that training for a personal best can be done by resting an extra week or two! I like the idea of the cheetah laying around all day and then making one all out burst to catch prey and train fast twitch muscles at the same time! The cheetah probably stretches a bit during the day also. Not a bad life I guess...

It seems that speed training in general involves hi muscle effort and low reps with maximum mental engagement. Reminds of the guy who sold drivers on infomercials and yelled every time he hit the ball.

Regards, Herbert
I think Sadlowski is close to have the same % of fast twitch as the cheetah.

Speaking of that - Eldrick Woods is no longer a tiger..now he is a "cheetah"...just ask Elin.

(Sorry couldn't resist)

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 13th, 2010, 1:36 am #9

You have mentioned this before several times. It flies in the face of a lot of commonly held beliefs, one 'worlds leading golf scientist' would seem to disagree as he states that the way to increase clubhead speed is to develop fast twitch muscle fiber. He is not alone.

My questions are:

Could you be wrong about the recruitment of fast twitch muscle fibers in the golf swing?
If fast twitch muscle fibers are recruited then which muscles are we talking about?
Is it possible that long drive folks recruit fast twitch muscles fibers in their all out swings? There certainly does appear to be some maximum muscle strain in those swings.
Is it more likely that baseball players recruit fast twitch muscle fibers when swinging a bat?
How about when throwing a baseball?

Regards, Herbert
it may fly in the face of commonly held beliefs it does not fly in the face of science and has not for 45 years:

Despite disagreement on mechanisms of recruitment, there was agreement that it is orderly, i.e., stereotyped, under most conditions. A very elegant recent study by Zajac and Faden (14) demonstrated that the force exerted by a motor unit was statistically a better predictor of its recruitment order than the conduction velocity of its axon. Nonetheless, this conclusion is similar to that of Henneman, who considered motoneuron size to be a surrogate for motor unit force.

From 'ESSAYS ON APS CLASSIC PAPERS - The size principle: a rule describing the recruitment of motoneurons ' in the Journal of Neurophysiology.

Peter
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 13th, 2010, 1:46 am #10

All still very new to me...

From what I have read is that some people have more slow twitch, some have more fast twitch...that is what it is and is what we are born with. I believe I get that. The emphasis of the training is to bring whatever fast twitch muscles are there into pre-eminence in their development and utilization. This is what I understood the term "recruitment" to mean.

I am not quite sure what you mean by this statement:

".... 'recruitment' is largely determined by the %MMT that a muscle is being required to generate. There is little in a golf swing that will reach a level of MMT that will cause recruitment of fast twitch fibers."

So the question(s):

What do you mean by MMT? Does this mean Manual Muscle Testing?

Do you mean Mass Muscle Tissue?

So two immediate issues here - what is meant by recruitment of fast twitch muscle fiber...and what is meant by your use of the acronym MMT?

The real issue is what DOES aid in the development of/recruitment of fast twitch muscles? I have read about the speed chains, isometric resistance band training to name two in addition to the method I am currently employing - which was just the easiest for me to start testing. What could you point me/us to does cause the recruitment of fast twitch muscles that are used in the golf swing?

The other issue besides the muscle fiber training / recruitment is the creation of the motor neural pathways for swinging faster. I can swing my lighter shaft faster, so I am "learning" at the motor neural level faster golf swing speed.

Thank you,

Kevin



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
is 'Manual Muscle Testing'. Recruitment of muscle fiber types is done as need increases for higher levels of force. 'Fast twitch' fibers are the last to be recruited and only when the levels of force require them.

Most of what you read relative to training for sports like track (sprinting, jumping...) do not have an issue as the levels of force required from the muscles being trained are a high level of MMT (maximum strength in this context as MMT is used to establish EMG baselines). There are no muscles to my mind that are near that level of exertion in 'normal' golf swings.

For good golf swings the fastest moving joint (trail wrist) moves faster than muscle contraction could produce according to research so any action by muscles in that case would only slow up the action vs making it go faster.

Peter
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