Tommy Armour

Tommy Armour

Joined: March 27th, 2009, 1:41 am

February 15th, 2010, 5:37 pm #1

I was watching the champions tour over this weekend and I was just watching as I usually do and when they showed Tommy Armour's swing I was more interested in watching his swing, more so than Fred Couples or the other pros, something about his less than full backswing really really caught my eye. I find it very interesting that even with his back swing,to me it appears to be 3/4 on the driver and less than 3/4 on the irons, how can he generate so much club head speed through the ball? I went on youtube to see how many swings I could find on him to see different angles such as face on, down the line etc. I found a few but mostly down the line which were cool, I like his swing, I want to copy his swing any suggestions, Mac, Peter Allen, Ham and the rest of the forum crew? If I left you name out it's not that I dont value your opinion the names I put in are the ones I readily remembered or should say have as a habit.
Art
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 16th, 2010, 1:30 am #2

There have been quite a few golfers with even shorter swings than Tommy Armour who get much more distance than most amateurs. It is all a matter of technique. If you achieve a proper impact position (which requires sustaining the angle between lead arm and club longer than the vast majority of amateurs) then you will have proper effective loft and a higher club head speed at impact.

There are physics behind this (conservation of angular momentum & energy...) but the bottom line is that it does not take a lot of effort to hit the ball further than you likely do now when you swing all out if you have correct technique. Some who've tried my 4.5 drill swing have been suprised by this when they hit the ball as far as they did before while never letting their trail elbow leave their side. Talk about a short swing

Peter
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Joined: September 10th, 2003, 10:52 am

February 16th, 2010, 9:35 am #3

Isn't he in the Plumber & Bennett(Stack & Tilt) stable?
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 16th, 2010, 2:17 pm #4

I pay no attention to which ads golfers do so I don't know which 'stable' he may be in. I do pay attention to what they actually do in their swings and TOmmy Armour does not do what S&T teaches. None of the pros I've observed who do their ads actually do what they teach. In fact I saw Weir explaining S&T to Gary Player and his explanation was not what S&T teaches.

I've yet to see a pro golfer do what one of the 'techniques du jour' teaches unless they always did it (ala Moe). Now when someone begins to market the technique Kuchar has adopted there will be a valid claim to a dramatic change of swing.

Peter
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Joined: January 6th, 2004, 8:10 am

February 17th, 2010, 5:36 pm #5

Charlie Wi is generally regarded as being closest to the S+T model - in fact there is a YouTube video of his swing entitled : " He hits all the positions ". Troy Matteson, who won on the PGA Tour, is also very close. I haven't seen enough of Kuchar to judge, but what little I've seen suggests he has a lot of the S+T elements in his swing. I believe he works with a Plummer and Bennett associate.
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Joined: April 30th, 2001, 4:02 pm

February 17th, 2010, 6:10 pm #6

I was watching the champions tour over this weekend and I was just watching as I usually do and when they showed Tommy Armour's swing I was more interested in watching his swing, more so than Fred Couples or the other pros, something about his less than full backswing really really caught my eye. I find it very interesting that even with his back swing,to me it appears to be 3/4 on the driver and less than 3/4 on the irons, how can he generate so much club head speed through the ball? I went on youtube to see how many swings I could find on him to see different angles such as face on, down the line etc. I found a few but mostly down the line which were cool, I like his swing, I want to copy his swing any suggestions, Mac, Peter Allen, Ham and the rest of the forum crew? If I left you name out it's not that I dont value your opinion the names I put in are the ones I readily remembered or should say have as a habit.
Art
Allen Doyle of the senior tour? I'm not sure he even had a 1/2 backswing yet was fairly long. As Peter says, its about technique. TA3 has plenty of angle retention and makes good use of his lower body in the DS. His driving distance average is about 270 ... one of the shorter hitters on the regular tour. He could hit it longer if he had a longer BS, but he apparently finds what he has adequate.

In his later years, Moe had only about a half a backswing yet could still hit a drive 240-250. In his younger years, Moe's BS was much longer and he hit the ball further.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 18th, 2010, 12:37 am #7

Charlie Wi is generally regarded as being closest to the S+T model - in fact there is a YouTube video of his swing entitled : " He hits all the positions ". Troy Matteson, who won on the PGA Tour, is also very close. I haven't seen enough of Kuchar to judge, but what little I've seen suggests he has a lot of the S+T elements in his swing. I believe he works with a Plummer and Bennett associate.
Interesting that the video called 'hitting all the positions' shows Wi from a view parallel to the target line. S&T teaches that at top of swing your torso should be angled towards the target. You need to see Wi perpendicular to the target line to judge this. This video shows that Wi's torso is not angled towards the target at top of swing so that is a position he does not hit (and neither does any other S&T pro I've seen unless they were swinging for a S&T ad).

Peter
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Joined: November 18th, 2004, 5:12 pm

February 18th, 2010, 1:34 pm #8

I pay no attention to which ads golfers do so I don't know which 'stable' he may be in. I do pay attention to what they actually do in their swings and TOmmy Armour does not do what S&T teaches. None of the pros I've observed who do their ads actually do what they teach. In fact I saw Weir explaining S&T to Gary Player and his explanation was not what S&T teaches.

I've yet to see a pro golfer do what one of the 'techniques du jour' teaches unless they always did it (ala Moe). Now when someone begins to market the technique Kuchar has adopted there will be a valid claim to a dramatic change of swing.

Peter
is one plane as taught by Jim Hardy. Matt's instructor is Chris O'Connell. Chris is with Hardy. Matt has very horizonal swing but get's it done.
Paul
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Joined: January 6th, 2004, 8:10 am

February 18th, 2010, 2:23 pm #9

Interesting that the video called 'hitting all the positions' shows Wi from a view parallel to the target line. S&T teaches that at top of swing your torso should be angled towards the target. You need to see Wi perpendicular to the target line to judge this. This video shows that Wi's torso is not angled towards the target at top of swing so that is a position he does not hit (and neither does any other S&T pro I've seen unless they were swinging for a S&T ad).

Peter
You're quite right Peter, I have never seen a Stack and Tilter with his torso angled towards the target either - because that's not what S+T teaches. S+T teaches a side tilt of the spine to the left WITHIN THE BODY TURN, allowing the shoulder centre to stay in place ( p 24 of the S+T book ). We set up centred over the ball and remain centred during the swing. P 105 of said book : " The upper body is rotating in a circle, with the left shoulder continuing to turn downward and inward uniformly. The spine is tilting to the left and extending, which allows the shoulder centre to stay in place and the head to stay the same height. " The Charlie Wi video demonstrates this admirably.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 18th, 2010, 10:20 pm #10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCWoEQwA52I

Note that the picture from the cover of their video at 21 seconds into the clip shows the example golfer on the left with his spine tilted towards the target. Same thing in the example swing at 14 seconds into the clip.

Peter
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