The Snowman Video

The Snowman Video

Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

June 1st, 2009, 8:01 pm #1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tIDos5MXR4

I had no idea I restricted my backswing that much. No wonder my body feels great!

Have at it, tell me what you think. I think the lack of turn and backswing is by far the biggest issue. It affects the swing plane, the release, distance, everything. I've been working on more turn and leverage already, with good results on the range.
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Joined: December 5th, 2002, 1:33 pm

June 2nd, 2009, 1:35 pm #2

Grip looks okay to me, at least from what I can see in the video. Your backswing does look restricted and I think part of the problem contributing to that is that you appear to be keeping too much weight on your lead side during the backswing. You might try setting up with more weight on the trail side and more lean away from the target. Then just try to feel like you're getting your hands level with and just behind your trail shoulder. I like the "hitchhiking" feel that NG uses in describing this. All in all I think your swing looks pretty good and with a little work on a couple of things it will really improve. I wish I could see it in slow motion because my old eyes can't see what you really look like at impact as far as your trail arm/wrist etc. Best of luck.
Jerry
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

June 2nd, 2009, 7:59 pm #3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tIDos5MXR4

I had no idea I restricted my backswing that much. No wonder my body feels great!

Have at it, tell me what you think. I think the lack of turn and backswing is by far the biggest issue. It affects the swing plane, the release, distance, everything. I've been working on more turn and leverage already, with good results on the range.
First I applaud you for posting your swing and soliciting comments...IMO this is what a good swing mechanics forum is all about. You have a very nice repeatable move and with a few adjustments should be able to add considerable CRACK to your swing.

Comments apply to either your driver swing or 6 irons. In the pics below, you can see:

1. Your turn is not very significant at all - your shoulders are barely turned 45 degrees.

2. Your head never moves back over your trail knee. In fact coming into impact, it moves forward - partly due to restricted turn.

3. At top of swing you are straight up - no tilt away from target which all good swings show. (Blue line)

You have completed the move to your front side and have lost most of your lag. The synergy of the above three items means your trail elbow has little chance of being to the ideal position which is front of the trail hip.




Compare this to Moe's move:




Fix: ( Short version ) Set up with your spine tilted away from the ball at address, and your head back toward your trail knee. Turn your shoulders as far as you can around your spine, while maintaining this tilt. When you can turn no more, THEN complete your backswing with your arms.

Once your backswing is completed, Make the move to your front side BUT KEEP YOUR ARMS AND SHOULDERS IN THE SAME TOS POSITION. After you have moved onto your lead leg/side, swing down to impact keeping your head over your trail knee until your hands are waist high in the follow through:



Do this in very slow motion in front of a mirror to make sure your are correct. Keeping your spine tilted and your head back cures many ills!

Long version - Buy Golf swing construction 101 and begin!


Nice Damn Range too! Is that your backyard? Sweet!


Last edited by mcirishman57 on June 2nd, 2009, 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

June 3rd, 2009, 12:16 am #4

Grip looks okay to me, at least from what I can see in the video. Your backswing does look restricted and I think part of the problem contributing to that is that you appear to be keeping too much weight on your lead side during the backswing. You might try setting up with more weight on the trail side and more lean away from the target. Then just try to feel like you're getting your hands level with and just behind your trail shoulder. I like the "hitchhiking" feel that NG uses in describing this. All in all I think your swing looks pretty good and with a little work on a couple of things it will really improve. I wish I could see it in slow motion because my old eyes can't see what you really look like at impact as far as your trail arm/wrist etc. Best of luck.
Jerry
Believe it or not, that was my first time taking a video with my camera, first time editing with MS Movie Maker, and first time posting to Youtube. Talk about a minor miracle.

I want to figure out how to do slow motion, but I'm not sure MS Movie Maker does it. I was able to watch frame by frame when I was editing, and I am assuming I could capture some frames out of there for posting here.

What I can tell you is that I was not getting good wrist cock, and releasing the wrist cock pretty early. Basically I was swatting at the ball. My setup had evolved into what it took to get the best results with that swing, I suppose.
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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

June 3rd, 2009, 12:50 am #5

First I applaud you for posting your swing and soliciting comments...IMO this is what a good swing mechanics forum is all about. You have a very nice repeatable move and with a few adjustments should be able to add considerable CRACK to your swing.

Comments apply to either your driver swing or 6 irons. In the pics below, you can see:

1. Your turn is not very significant at all - your shoulders are barely turned 45 degrees.

2. Your head never moves back over your trail knee. In fact coming into impact, it moves forward - partly due to restricted turn.

3. At top of swing you are straight up - no tilt away from target which all good swings show. (Blue line)

You have completed the move to your front side and have lost most of your lag. The synergy of the above three items means your trail elbow has little chance of being to the ideal position which is front of the trail hip.




Compare this to Moe's move:




Fix: ( Short version ) Set up with your spine tilted away from the ball at address, and your head back toward your trail knee. Turn your shoulders as far as you can around your spine, while maintaining this tilt. When you can turn no more, THEN complete your backswing with your arms.

Once your backswing is completed, Make the move to your front side BUT KEEP YOUR ARMS AND SHOULDERS IN THE SAME TOS POSITION. After you have moved onto your lead leg/side, swing down to impact keeping your head over your trail knee until your hands are waist high in the follow through:



Do this in very slow motion in front of a mirror to make sure your are correct. Keeping your spine tilted and your head back cures many ills!

Long version - Buy Golf swing construction 101 and begin!


Nice Damn Range too! Is that your backyard? Sweet!

Thank you for your post, it took a lot of work and it is very helpful.

The first thing I noticed when I saw myself was the restricted shoulder turn and wrist set, compared to say the photo of Moe you posted. At the top, my shoulders are barely turned! This made it a lot of work to try to piston the arm and get good release and impact. I was always fighting it.

Since then I have found that I can indeed get to Moe's loaded position. It is more mental than physical, which is good, actually.

The early results have been Very Good. Much better impact and more height and distance. The correct downswing moves feel much more natural from that loaded position. I'm going to try to get this move learned, then post another video for further work. I will take a look at your suggestions, they make sense. I've decided that for now I'm not going to implement any big changes to my setup or weight shift, etc., but I will be open to them soon.

For anyone hesitating to video themselves, DO IT. You don't have to post it anywhere, but just seeing it was a revelation for me. Most any digital camera can take the movie. Mine is nothing special.

My practice range is sort of an old barnyard that has been seeded with grass. It's part of our house property. We have a big mower!
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

June 3rd, 2009, 1:00 am #6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tIDos5MXR4

I had no idea I restricted my backswing that much. No wonder my body feels great!

Have at it, tell me what you think. I think the lack of turn and backswing is by far the biggest issue. It affects the swing plane, the release, distance, everything. I've been working on more turn and leverage already, with good results on the range.
Your are the same Snowman that is considering going back to CG. The things you have observed and Jerry and I have pointed out apply to CG too! Improve these few things and you are good to go with SA.
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

June 3rd, 2009, 12:16 pm #7

Thank you for your post, it took a lot of work and it is very helpful.

The first thing I noticed when I saw myself was the restricted shoulder turn and wrist set, compared to say the photo of Moe you posted. At the top, my shoulders are barely turned! This made it a lot of work to try to piston the arm and get good release and impact. I was always fighting it.

Since then I have found that I can indeed get to Moe's loaded position. It is more mental than physical, which is good, actually.

The early results have been Very Good. Much better impact and more height and distance. The correct downswing moves feel much more natural from that loaded position. I'm going to try to get this move learned, then post another video for further work. I will take a look at your suggestions, they make sense. I've decided that for now I'm not going to implement any big changes to my setup or weight shift, etc., but I will be open to them soon.

For anyone hesitating to video themselves, DO IT. You don't have to post it anywhere, but just seeing it was a revelation for me. Most any digital camera can take the movie. Mine is nothing special.

My practice range is sort of an old barnyard that has been seeded with grass. It's part of our house property. We have a big mower!
you wanted to try. Rem's comment on my swing and head position at setup has been very helpful. It wouldn't take much of a change, and at Top of Swing you do need to have your spine tilted away from the target. Moes slope away from the ball at address means you don't have to "get there" during your swing:




Look at his head, the slope of his spine, and how he moves the club with a turn of the shoulders first.....My head position has improved alot since Rem's comment
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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

June 3rd, 2009, 6:04 pm #8

With my build, I have found I fit into Scott Hazledine's viewpoint on this. He says he teaches the swing Moe used when he was younger and more fit. Not as wide of a stance. He does say to keep the head over the rear knee and I see I'm not quite there.

I do want to build some coil. If I set up so that I'm already "there", won't that defeat some of the power and leverage? The moves I'm trying to do are covered in one of the later chapters of Todd Graves' Power & Distance DVD.

Thanks again.

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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

June 4th, 2009, 12:22 pm #9

Jack Nicklaus moved his head back before he started the swing. All great swings have their head way back over their trail knee at and beyond impact.
All great swings have their spine sloped away from the target at the top of swing. IT AIDS in storing power, doesn't limit your ability to store power.
So these things should be in your swing no matter what method you choose.

Jack was asked one time why he teed the ball so high - "Because air has less resistance than the ground." Same could be said about these two things.

And I'm not pushing - only answering because you asked.

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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

June 4th, 2009, 5:39 pm #10

Don't worry, you won't offend me with suggestions or such. I want them. I won't promise to adopt them all but I will give them trial or at least thought.

I am finding that with my improvements, I am naturally doing what you are suggesting; keeping the head back. I guess I really altered things on the old swing in order to make reasonable contact and hit the ball straight. All I was doing was not much turn, and swinging with the arms out in front of me. Very hard to stay on plane that way. I mostly did it, but it was a struggle and it required compromises. Now I have to learn to trust this new move.

Last night in the league I hit the best 5 iron I've hit in ages. Man, that felt sweet. With the old swing I couldn't even hit a 5 iron, well, not worth crap anyway.

Maybe sometime this weekend I'll get another video shot and posted. I'm fighting my driver now, which was my best club. I think I'm letting the body get out of sync with the arms now that my arm swing is longer. And I'm hooking the crap out of my fairway woods. It will take time.

Peter: Any chance of me getting off double-secret moderation probation? I promise to play nice.
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