Swings

Swings

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

December 19th, 2010, 8:03 pm #1

Here is a look at 4 good golf swings as close to shaft parallel to the ground and impact I as I could get:


Which do you like best? Worst? I believe that all meet Peter's benchmarks for a pro swing but are all equal or are some 'better' in that regard? What about position at impact? Which swing do you think is best for less strain on the body and why?

Any other comments?
Edit: Clockwise from upper left Ernie Ells, Kevin, Dustin Johnson, Ham
Regards, Herbert
Last edited by gHerbert on December 19th, 2010, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 19th, 2010, 8:24 pm #2

McIrishman and the grey sweater (Dustin?) are the best swings. IMA has a specific goal for the position of the trail elbow at that point in the swing and these two match it while the other two don't.

You don't really have impact for #4 so a judgement there is a guesstimate but I'd take impact for the other 3 and not for #4 that i think is likely barely there in terms of what I consider an acceptable impact position and whenever you're near the limit you can be on the bad side of it faster.

Given that 3 of these look pretty much like Scott (IMA) I'm comfortable that any of them would be fine for my (bad) back but all should be warned that there will be muscle soreness from a proper impact position until you train your body to easily accommodate it.

Peter
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 19th, 2010, 10:26 pm #3

Here is a look at 4 good golf swings as close to shaft parallel to the ground and impact I as I could get:


Which do you like best? Worst? I believe that all meet Peter's benchmarks for a pro swing but are all equal or are some 'better' in that regard? What about position at impact? Which swing do you think is best for less strain on the body and why?

Any other comments?
Edit: Clockwise from upper left Ernie Ells, Kevin, Dustin Johnson, Ham
Regards, Herbert
three are hitting a golf ball, and one is not.

I know for some that does not matter, but most see the difference. LOL

Ham

Every golfer has a swing that they will never forget even if they quit!
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Joined: January 23rd, 2005, 12:18 pm

December 19th, 2010, 10:51 pm #4

Here is a look at 4 good golf swings as close to shaft parallel to the ground and impact I as I could get:


Which do you like best? Worst? I believe that all meet Peter's benchmarks for a pro swing but are all equal or are some 'better' in that regard? What about position at impact? Which swing do you think is best for less strain on the body and why?

Any other comments?
Edit: Clockwise from upper left Ernie Ells, Kevin, Dustin Johnson, Ham
Regards, Herbert
... Els, Ham, Johnson, Kevin. It's doubtful that you could find anyone better than Els, maybe Snead circa 1950.

Tom
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

December 19th, 2010, 11:31 pm #5

three are hitting a golf ball, and one is not.

I know for some that does not matter, but most see the difference. LOL

Ham

Every golfer has a swing that they will never forget even if they quit!
not "ball oriented", it doesn't matter. Your experience with your students is that they have slower swings when they are hitting a ball.

With Blueprint / Bertholy training the golfer learns that the ball is "incidental to the whole process" so whether or not the ball is there does not matter. They make the same swing because their swing and mind is conditioned toward a totally different "place". Perhaps if you were a little less ball focused your wouldn't have as much of a hit impulse causing your trail arm to straighten before impact.

I already posted here that one of our members (and not a lurker either) here has witnessed actual driver swings (with ball) of the post chain improvements, and that my club head speed and ball flight suffers none. And Ham, if I could, I would show us all one, I've not been shy about this as we all know. I've shown bad ones and good ones, that's how I've improved. But it is winter, and the light in the golf dome isn't good enough for high speed. So cut me some slack bro on this hitting the ball thing....sheeesh! Trust me, I can hit the pill.

For now, you will have to settle for this swing, shot this past summer after I had begun "speed training" with my lightweight over speed club, but before chain work:



Guess what the speed is on that one...I mean, not that you can tell anything from the swing, or the position of the club shaft, but if you had to guess...That's all I got for you now bro!

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
Last edited by mcirishman57 on December 19th, 2010, 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 20th, 2010, 7:25 am #6

but once again you are being dishonest.

My trail arm does not straighten before impact and as evidenced in the video posted there is no hit impulse visible. I posted a bunch of links to videos where the players matched the same positions I am in. You however choose to use pictures after impact and of poor quality in an attempt to show something in the wrong light. This is very dishonest and I doubt it will help you make any more sales.

You can go play without a ball if you want, but I think it a lot more fun to play with one.

Ham

Every golfer has a swing that they will never forget even if they quit!
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 20th, 2010, 9:20 am #7

Here is a look at 4 good golf swings as close to shaft parallel to the ground and impact I as I could get:


Which do you like best? Worst? I believe that all meet Peter's benchmarks for a pro swing but are all equal or are some 'better' in that regard? What about position at impact? Which swing do you think is best for less strain on the body and why?

Any other comments?
Edit: Clockwise from upper left Ernie Ells, Kevin, Dustin Johnson, Ham
Regards, Herbert
From the latest data which has been published I believe that an ascending impact angle of 5 degrees to be ideal for maximum distance. Of course the other parameters need to fit that impact angle. It would not work with a Driver with 12 of loft as the launch angle would be too high.

In the pictures posted the first three all have the hands even with the ball, or ahead at impact. This makes it not possible to have an ascending impact. Unfortunately the picture of me is somewhat after impact so it is difficult to compare.

It could be that the tour players pictured where not swinging for maximum distance, but rather for control. On a hole that is more narrow it pays to be able to hit a low control shot with a driver. Of course in the wind this is also a big plus.

Ham
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

December 20th, 2010, 11:48 am #8

strike the ball on a descending angle of attack, even with driver. This fact was documented by Trackman - though the time tracked is 2004-2008 I doubt this has changed much.

http://blog.swingmangolf.com/files/trac ... tances.pdf

The LD guys have known for a long time you need to strike the ball on the upswing for max distance, and Jacob in his blog suggests as you do that the pro, perhaps because of the premium placed on accuracy, hit down for more spin and control.

kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 20th, 2010, 12:03 pm #9

and some hit up. The range of those measure is 8.9 downwards to 5.5° upwards. I will take 5° upwards, but with the ability to alter that as needed by playing conditions.

Interesting that by one report I read the LPGA players average 3° upwards and are somewhat more accurate then the men, of course those who are more accurate normally have less clubhead speed too.

Ham
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