Swing Tempo

Swing Tempo

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 24th, 2004, 4:05 pm #1

There are interesting thoughts & perceptions about swing tempo. To have a fact basis for a discussion I took a look at some videos and following are the observations:

<TABLE BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="5"><th align="center">Swing 'Tempo'</th><tr><td align="center">Golfer</td><td align="center">TA-Impact</TD><td align="center">TOS-Impact</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Pros</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Daley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Estes</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Maggert</td><td align="center">29</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Quigley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Tryon</td><td align="center">36</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Ams</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Al</td><td align="center">30</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Kent</td><td align="center">40</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Richard</td><td align="center">31</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #1</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #2</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr>
</table>


The timing is in number of video frames. This is NTSC video so 30 frames represents 1 second. "TA-Impact" is take away to impact. "TOS-Impact" is top of swing to impact.

Peter
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Joined: March 6th, 2002, 4:19 pm

February 24th, 2004, 4:59 pm #2

He seems to be a "quick swinger" whereas someone like Els seems to have a more deliberate tempo. It's quite possible that this may be only perception - the results you already noted are surprisingly similar. As for a slow swinger ... who is the commentator from the senior tour that has a significant pause at the top. It was almost painful to watch. Bob Murphy (just looked him up at PGATOUR.com). I wonder how he would compare?

Regards,
Stirling
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Joined: March 1st, 2002, 1:48 am

February 24th, 2004, 5:51 pm #3

There are interesting thoughts & perceptions about swing tempo. To have a fact basis for a discussion I took a look at some videos and following are the observations:

<TABLE BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="5"><th align="center">Swing 'Tempo'</th><tr><td align="center">Golfer</td><td align="center">TA-Impact</TD><td align="center">TOS-Impact</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Pros</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Daley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Estes</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Maggert</td><td align="center">29</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Quigley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Tryon</td><td align="center">36</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Ams</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Al</td><td align="center">30</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Kent</td><td align="center">40</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Richard</td><td align="center">31</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #1</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #2</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr>
</table>


The timing is in number of video frames. This is NTSC video so 30 frames represents 1 second. "TA-Impact" is take away to impact. "TOS-Impact" is top of swing to impact.

Peter
To think that Daly and Qigley have the same tempo.
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Joined: December 7th, 2002, 12:06 pm

February 24th, 2004, 7:43 pm #4

There are interesting thoughts & perceptions about swing tempo. To have a fact basis for a discussion I took a look at some videos and following are the observations:

<TABLE BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="5"><th align="center">Swing 'Tempo'</th><tr><td align="center">Golfer</td><td align="center">TA-Impact</TD><td align="center">TOS-Impact</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Pros</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Daley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Estes</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Maggert</td><td align="center">29</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Quigley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Tryon</td><td align="center">36</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Ams</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Al</td><td align="center">30</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Kent</td><td align="center">40</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Richard</td><td align="center">31</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #1</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #2</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr>
</table>


The timing is in number of video frames. This is NTSC video so 30 frames represents 1 second. "TA-Impact" is take away to impact. "TOS-Impact" is top of swing to impact.

Peter
With these numbers, club-head speed comes from something else. Is there any way to compare the differential in frames as to position of the club-head through the sequence? I would suspect the pro’s club-head to be arriving late given the substantial differences between swing speeds of the two groups.

Regards,
Richard.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 24th, 2004, 7:48 pm #5

He seems to be a "quick swinger" whereas someone like Els seems to have a more deliberate tempo. It's quite possible that this may be only perception - the results you already noted are surprisingly similar. As for a slow swinger ... who is the commentator from the senior tour that has a significant pause at the top. It was almost painful to watch. Bob Murphy (just looked him up at PGATOUR.com). I wonder how he would compare?

Regards,
Stirling
26 & 8

Peter

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Joined: December 27th, 2003, 12:19 am

February 24th, 2004, 9:02 pm #6

With these numbers, club-head speed comes from something else. Is there any way to compare the differential in frames as to position of the club-head through the sequence? I would suspect the pro’s club-head to be arriving late given the substantial differences between swing speeds of the two groups.

Regards,
Richard.
Doesn't seem to be that big a difference between any of them? Pros and Ams. I would have taught the TOS numbers to be much more different between Pros and Ams. And yes, of course, delivery lines between a Pro and AM differ greatly. Delivering a sweet spot onto the ball goes a long way.

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Joined: March 23rd, 2003, 1:34 pm

February 24th, 2004, 9:15 pm #7

There are interesting thoughts & perceptions about swing tempo. To have a fact basis for a discussion I took a look at some videos and following are the observations:

<TABLE BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="5"><th align="center">Swing 'Tempo'</th><tr><td align="center">Golfer</td><td align="center">TA-Impact</TD><td align="center">TOS-Impact</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Pros</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Daley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Estes</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Maggert</td><td align="center">29</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Quigley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Tryon</td><td align="center">36</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Ams</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Al</td><td align="center">30</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Kent</td><td align="center">40</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Richard</td><td align="center">31</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #1</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #2</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr>
</table>


The timing is in number of video frames. This is NTSC video so 30 frames represents 1 second. "TA-Impact" is take away to impact. "TOS-Impact" is top of swing to impact.

Peter
Peter, I really think you have this desire to be argumentative. Now on April 27 a book is to be released on tempo co-authored by a writer named Garrity along with a pro, John Novosel, who was nominated by Golf mag. as one of the top 100. This pro videoed ams and touring pros and for the most part says that ams don't swing fast enough. ( back and thru).

Here's what a technical genius like yourself should do. First copy two swings. Say Mike Weir, a fast swinger, and VJ Singh, a medium to slow tempo guy. Now video your swing and post all three on this board for us to observe. I maintain that to complete a good swing with a full shoulder turn in under two seconds is really going at it. This pro who has videoed many says the same thing. Show me in real terms with real video that I'm wrong. DO NOT search the net for a comparsion or DO NOT use slow motion.

If you can DEMONSTRATE then I'll by the first to extend an attaboy. If you can't make a good swing with a full turn and keep up with Singh let alone Weir well then, your exercise is just another pile of garabge.
Last edited by fdb2 on February 24th, 2004, 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 24th, 2004, 10:09 pm #8

The video used for comparison is NOT slow motion. It is full speed NTSC video. The results are what they are.

BTW - the fact that you don't like the results or that someone else may have different results from different people does not nullify these results.

Peter
Last edited by sagf_moderator on February 24th, 2004, 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 23rd, 2003, 1:34 pm

February 24th, 2004, 10:32 pm #9

No the results are fine but the analysis is moronic. Of course you didn't state the obvious. Pros complete the backswing in about the same time as the ams. but the pros make a full ( lets be specific a full turn "till you burn) shoulder turn and most ams. do not. So here's what's really happening. The pro moves the club a LOT more distance in the same time the ams. move the club a lot less distance. Truth be known the pro SPEED has to be more. I'll let you and your math guru Mandrin dive into that one.

You always will say what some responders "think". No the results are Okay by me, however you don't seem to be picking up on past statements I made about FULL turns. As always you seem to evidence the "needy" aspect that one of the posters brought up a few weeks ago.
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Joined: August 15th, 2000, 1:37 am

February 24th, 2004, 10:34 pm #10

There are interesting thoughts & perceptions about swing tempo. To have a fact basis for a discussion I took a look at some videos and following are the observations:

<TABLE BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="5"><th align="center">Swing 'Tempo'</th><tr><td align="center">Golfer</td><td align="center">TA-Impact</TD><td align="center">TOS-Impact</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Pros</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Daley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Estes</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Maggert</td><td align="center">29</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Quigley</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Tryon</td><td align="center">36</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Ams</td><td align="center"></td><td align="center"></td></tr><tr><td align="center">Al</td><td align="center">30</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Kent</td><td align="center">40</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Richard</td><td align="center">31</td><td align="center">9</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #1</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">10</td></tr><tr><td align="center">SA Am #2</td><td align="center">34</td><td align="center">9</td></tr>
</table>


The timing is in number of video frames. This is NTSC video so 30 frames represents 1 second. "TA-Impact" is take away to impact. "TOS-Impact" is top of swing to impact.

Peter
It is interesting and despite the small sample size I guess the average is the same within exptl error. I just remember Shoemaker saying counting his pics showed pros started down slower but caught up by the bottom. He had a pro swinging behind us common mortals (one was the amateur champ of Iowa)and you could clearly see this.
Do your pics agree?
If so a good ad for Mr B saying you have to start down slow. If not - was this a myth? Maybe we could have rushed down all this time?
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