Setup vs. Impact

Setup vs. Impact

Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

March 5th, 2011, 5:09 pm #1

The recent discussions regarding spine angle got me interested in doing some research to see what the best players are doing. Doesn't mean what they are doing is "ideal" but I think there are some interesting results. This so far is a small study. As time permits I will post some more.

First two are Tom Lehman and Phil Mickelson at setup and then impact. Each have somewhat bent leading legs at impact. The lines represent starting back position from the down the line view. Interesting how much steeper their lower backs become at impact vs. setup.





Next are Kaymer, Ben Hogan, and Tiger. All have leading legs that are straightening coming into impact and except for Kaymer who became slightly steeper their lower back angles remain very close to the angle they were in at setup.

Interesting that Tiger and Hogan have little change.







Enjoy!!

Ham
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

March 5th, 2011, 7:42 pm #2

a reference point for their head in future postings?

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 5th, 2011, 11:08 pm #3

The recent discussions regarding spine angle got me interested in doing some research to see what the best players are doing. Doesn't mean what they are doing is "ideal" but I think there are some interesting results. This so far is a small study. As time permits I will post some more.

First two are Tom Lehman and Phil Mickelson at setup and then impact. Each have somewhat bent leading legs at impact. The lines represent starting back position from the down the line view. Interesting how much steeper their lower backs become at impact vs. setup.





Next are Kaymer, Ben Hogan, and Tiger. All have leading legs that are straightening coming into impact and except for Kaymer who became slightly steeper their lower back angles remain very close to the angle they were in at setup.

Interesting that Tiger and Hogan have little change.







Enjoy!!

Ham





Peter
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

March 5th, 2011, 11:37 pm #4

Super clips!! Shows straightening of the leading leg!!

Thanks,

Ham
Last edited by hammeredit on March 5th, 2011, 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

March 6th, 2011, 8:13 am #5






Peter
Here a good clip of Hogan demonstrating his theory of the proper lower body movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wpyAXvIDYw

A couple of stills from the video. Showing clearly that Hogan thought that the lead leg should be straightening coming into impact. In his full swing you can also see the leg straightening, but not straight at impact. It becomes straight shortly after impact.



Enjoy!!

Ham
Last edited by hammeredit on March 6th, 2011, 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

March 6th, 2011, 11:00 am #6

a reference point for their head in future postings?

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
the future work. I try to draw the upper back line to the back of the neck and the lower back line to the belt line now.

Ham
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

March 6th, 2011, 4:20 pm #7

Here a good clip of Hogan demonstrating his theory of the proper lower body movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wpyAXvIDYw

A couple of stills from the video. Showing clearly that Hogan thought that the lead leg should be straightening coming into impact. In his full swing you can also see the leg straightening, but not straight at impact. It becomes straight shortly after impact.



Enjoy!!

Ham
then goes back to target at transition....from a face on perspective, Hogan's lead knee looks like it is "bending and straightening" more than it is.

As you have noted, Hogan's knee is clearly flexed at impact, just like this dude, both young and old:





I can't put my hands on my copy of "Five Lessons"...so I may be wrong...but I don't think Hogan verbally expressed the idea that one should focus on straightening the lead leg. He was more all about the knee/ hip action, and in that clip you posted he only speaks of "the knees and the hips" starting the swing first. No mention of straightening in terms of an action to be focused on - at leas that I know of.

One well known and highly respected expert - a PGA professional and Top 100 ranked teacher throughout his entire career - said that straightening at impact or flexing works. He preferred his "students to develop a slightly flexed knee left knee position...it gives purer contact off of thin or grassless lies"

I find it instructive that two of the purest - Moe and Hogan both had this slightly flexed knee at impact. And most everybody's lead knee straightens past extension as they move into the finish.



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

March 6th, 2011, 5:10 pm #8

that he clearly demonstrated the leading leg straightening. Could be he wanted it straight, but did not quite get there until after impact.

Here are some more pics I found. Interesting in the sequence below how the leading leg is virtually straight at impact. The lines were not drawn by me. I like the look of the straight leading leg, and theorize that it could be helpful for more consistent ball striking. I see a lot more straighter leading legs today then I did ten to fifteen years ago.





Ham
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Joined: February 10th, 2010, 12:54 am

March 6th, 2011, 5:48 pm #9






Peter
Are clearly bent at impact...I got a ton of Hogan clips (just watched one from 1953) and his leg is bent at impact. It does straighten..when he is at his finish. And from what I can tell most of the swings I have on my computer from well known good ball strikers are flexed at and past impact. It seems some of the guys like Mahan, Tiger and others following Foley or a "stack and tilt" type swing might promote this type of movement....but watching Tiger's ball striking lately isn't promoting this swing well. Also, when guys have baggy pants on can you really tell what the lead leg is doing?
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

March 6th, 2011, 7:36 pm #10

that he clearly demonstrated the leading leg straightening. Could be he wanted it straight, but did not quite get there until after impact.

Here are some more pics I found. Interesting in the sequence below how the leading leg is virtually straight at impact. The lines were not drawn by me. I like the look of the straight leading leg, and theorize that it could be helpful for more consistent ball striking. I see a lot more straighter leading legs today then I did ten to fifteen years ago.





Ham
to me. Years ago I blew my left knee out playing soccer (ACL). On my lower rim there is barely 25% of the cartilage remaining. Quinton (Rotary Golf) advises on his site against a straight leg at impact because of the stress it puts on the knee, and he claims it inhibits a turning through. I asked several therapists and fitness trainers about this and they all agreed flexed is better for knee health...so that in conjunction with what Mr. B says was enough to settle the matter for me. I tried it both ways and for me it works better (freer turn and less pain) with it flexed.

There seems to be a correlation between this straightening move and power, in the same way that the more power required for the shot, the trail foot is more active/comes up more. For example I have shots of Tiger hitting short irons and his trail foot stays down. So perhaps in the same way more power equals more straightening?


Kelvin Miyahira (speed chain inventor)in his writing notes this straightening of the leg on the biggest hitters and calls it a "second firing" of the lower body hips. I would like to try it but I am just too afraid I would do something bad and then be done.....especially after what happened to Tiger and his knee escapade!


Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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