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Hi Doug - Do you recall whether Paul Bertholy modified his playing clubs? I remember handling only his special wedge from which he had ground off a lot of the hosel and had added lead to the back. I think he had filed off a lot of the bounce as well.how many of you genteleman had a chance to play golf with Moe. I did on more than one occasion. The first time was in 1979 or 1980 and he had already won a Canadian Senior PGA. The irons he had at that time were different legnths. They were not ground down on the sole to the first scoring line and he told me they had a S/W of E8. They were a Spalding
custom blade with a squrish toe. I hit the 9 iron and it was solid.
His grips at that time were not overly wide but they had very little taper. This was at Foxfire where I worked with Bertholy.
In 1999 or 2000 when on the NG staff his playing clubs away from the NG galleries were a set of the most beautiful Titliest irons I had ever seen. He told me they from the Tour Dept. They were not single legnth either. The grips he liked at that time came from Kenneth Smith. This was in Titusville with his good friend and top Canadian amateur Nick Weslock.
You know, Peter, I have always wondered about Moe and Bertholy. Moe liked to memorize and quote from the various golf instructors that he met, and he, immensely, enjoyed quoting Bertholy.Great to have a first hand report.
BTW - For those that don't know Doug he is the source for 'Golf Swing Construction 101' which is the publishing of Paul Bertholy's method. Bertholy was Moe's instructor for about 20 years until Paul passed away.
Been a whileYou know, Peter, I have always wondered about Moe and Bertholy. Moe liked to memorize and quote from the various golf instructors that he met, and he, immensely, enjoyed quoting Bertholy.
However, Moe didn't meet Bertholy until well after his playing career, as a young man, was over. Moe was about 50 years old, when he met Bertholy...that's a guess, but would be, relatively, accurate.
So I think we can, safely, say, based on Doug's admission that Moe didn't use one length or lie in his golf clubs at age 50...about 1979 or 1978. Further video that I have seems to indicate that in 1985 (age 56)or so that Moe was not using clubs of the same length.
A lot of people can't put this timeline together, in that Moe was 20 in 1949!! The period I would like to see, if he was using same-length clubs is in 1949 to about 1960.
Some people think that Bertholy influenced Moe, when, in fact, Moe's career, as a young man, was over by the time he met Bertholy, and his swing was imbedded.
Moe went on to have a fabulous senior career. My question for Doug was did Bertholy really influence Moe's swing that much, did he change Moe's swing?
In order to get a true picture of Moe's swing, should we be looking pre 1978 or so?
Remington asked how much of an influence was Paul on Moe. When I visited Moe in Titusville the meeting was set up by Moe's best and closest friend of nearly 50 years Nick Weslock.Hi Doug - Do you recall whether Paul Bertholy modified his playing clubs? I remember handling only his special wedge from which he had ground off a lot of the hosel and had added lead to the back. I think he had filed off a lot of the bounce as well.
As for Moe's grips, I've read that he preferred a wrapped rubber grip. Now that you report that he got his grips from Kenneh Smith I'm wondering whether Moe's grips were the Goodwin Grip, the best grips I ever used. They consisted of a tapered strip of rubber with a very rough texture. You could wrap them to conform to any shape you wanted over any underlisting. But I haven't seen the Goodwin Grip offered by any manufacturer or component distributor in 20 years.
Thanks for your input.
Thanks for the additional information Doug. Here's a little followup that some may find interesting:Remington asked how much of an influence was Paul on Moe. When I visited Moe in Titusville the meeting was set up by Moe's best and closest friend of nearly 50 years Nick Weslock.
Th reason Moe alowed his picture in Golf Swing Construction 101 is because of my tie to Bertholy. On the 9th hole at the Canadian Golf club in Titusville with Moe in the cart with him ,Nick Weslock said he wished had a chance to meet Paul and that "Paul was Moe's golf guru". So how much influence Paul had on Moe you be the judge. By the way Moe met Paul in the 1950's. Moe was a friend of Leo Biagetti who Paul and Missi Bertholy had a hand in raising. It was Paul who taught Leo as a young man. It was through Leo that Paul and Moe met. According to Paul at that time Leo and Moe would stop at Paul's driving range and hit balls. Then later when Moe was older the connection was re established. Moe had very high praise for Leo's ability as a pure ball striker.
To answer your question Tom, Paul customized everthing. This guy was way ahead of the manufacturers. For those who never met Paul he was pushing5'6". His longest iron at that time(1980) was a 5 iron. He played his irons about 1.5 inches over standard legnth to create a longer arc. He made each iron about 2 degrees strong. He bought a muscleback iron from Hornung golf and ground the heel and put on a 4 way camber while all other clubs of the time were usually pretty square soled. He did this to minimize the drag of the iron in the turf and the rough. His also ground them down to get them back into a d2-5 S/W
His driver was 46" laminated maple. He took the sole plate off removed the lead plug in the head and replaced it with steel wool to get the S/W back into line. He did this with his 4 and 5 wood. His 4 wood was the longest fairway wood I have ever hit.
His sand wdege was probably one of the fist lob wedges. It is the one club of his I got after he passed. It is a PGA Lady Contessa Sw with he bent to be very weak. Approx 59 degrees which he did by eyes sight not a Loft lie gage. He wanted the lady version to get a weaker shaft for the soft shots to be played with the club.
Hey Trench Man, things getting a bit chilly in
Been a while
In keeping with the open mind philosophy I made a call to a fellow here in town (Saskatoon as you know) that was on my old ball team. He caddied for Moe when he was approximately 14 yrs. old and is 52 years old at the present (you do the math). He recanted the following info:
-Saskatchewan Open at Riverside G&CC in Saskatoon.
-all clubs were stock with the exception of a wedge where the bounce was filed but lead tape was added.
-Moe was in final foursome but didn't win.
-Moe went into the club house after the round unhappy with this fellows caddying. Moe thought he was too slow (remember we've always heard how Moe liked to play fast). After his patience ran out this fellow asked a tournament official to go get Moe so that he could be paid. Moe eventually made his way out and squared up the debt.
I tried to fish him for more club info but he didn't recall that Moe's clubs were out of the ordinary. Take it for what it's worth ... just another Moe story. Unfortunately, nobody documented any details.