Joined: September 22nd, 2006, 11:35 am

December 4th, 2008, 1:00 am #31

If you want to believe you can come up with rationalizations for almost any data that does not match your beliefs. For example it is well known that Moe modified his clubs. The fact that the photo I posted was from his NG days means little as Moe modified his NG clubs just as he had his non-NG clubs.

Given this other data is likely pointless but there are other shots of Moe from his pre-NG days that show his irons are not the same length.

Peter
Peter, I would tend to keep an open mind on this issue. I never saw Moe grind the bottoms of his NG clubs flat, which he did in his playing days.

I never saw him grind the toes flat (just a bit) on his NG clubs, which he did in his playing days.

I saw a pix of him in the 80's and the clubs seemed to be of different lengths (clubs in bag), but he was well out of his playing career at that time. I have seen stuff of him in the 60's and 70's but never saw all the clubs assembled at one time.

Be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 4th, 2008, 1:34 pm #32

I have multiple shots of Moe's golf bag over the years and there is no evidence in any that his irons are all the same length and these shots show the bag from the side vs 'head on'. In addition a simple comparison of club lengths in your favorite Moe video shows that the irons are not the same length and unlikely to be the same lie angle.

Peter
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Joined: September 22nd, 2006, 11:35 am

December 4th, 2008, 4:07 pm #33

I will keep an open mind then!! Mark Evershed knew him back in the 50-60's I think, and he talks about this idea of same lie angle. I have seen some early model Moe clubs, but not a set....they did have tons of tape on them.

He, reportedly, routinely ground the bottom of the club down to take off the bounce...almost down to the bottom groove. I don't think you could, possibly, put enough lead tape on there to make up for this loss of weight? Yet, they say his clubs were heavy?

He claims in the 1986 video to favor mass over speed....thus, why he liked heavy clubs, and this would seem to justify a single length idea also.

Wish we could find somebody with authroity back in the 50's and 60's. He was popular back then and there was a tremendous amount written about him in Canada. He was their boy, and he was the one who attracted the crowds.

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Joined: September 22nd, 2006, 11:35 am

December 4th, 2008, 4:17 pm #34

I have multiple shots of Moe's golf bag over the years and there is no evidence in any that his irons are all the same length and these shots show the bag from the side vs 'head on'. In addition a simple comparison of club lengths in your favorite Moe video shows that the irons are not the same length and unlikely to be the same lie angle.

Peter
Mark was probably born in the mid 50's. Sorry about that. I had to go back to the Feeling of Greatness story to get this right. Toronto pro.
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Joined: May 11th, 2004, 2:15 am

December 4th, 2008, 5:04 pm #35

This is very true. Two people who are the same height may need different lengths and lie angles simply because they may have different arm lengths. Added to that is the fact that their swing differences may require different fittings. imo, it is extremely important for everyone to be dynamically fitted by someone qualified to determine what their needs are based on body and swing characteristics. Even with a SA swing people will make different little moves that can affect their club fitting needs to some degree. Good post, Ham.
All Wishon clubs are meant to be custom fit to include lie angle. If you buy a Wishon club without at least 2 visits to your clubmaker then you have wasted your money.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 4th, 2008, 9:56 pm #36

I will keep an open mind then!! Mark Evershed knew him back in the 50-60's I think, and he talks about this idea of same lie angle. I have seen some early model Moe clubs, but not a set....they did have tons of tape on them.

He, reportedly, routinely ground the bottom of the club down to take off the bounce...almost down to the bottom groove. I don't think you could, possibly, put enough lead tape on there to make up for this loss of weight? Yet, they say his clubs were heavy?

He claims in the 1986 video to favor mass over speed....thus, why he liked heavy clubs, and this would seem to justify a single length idea also.

Wish we could find somebody with authroity back in the 50's and 60's. He was popular back then and there was a tremendous amount written about him in Canada. He was their boy, and he was the one who attracted the crowds.
can justify single length when photos clearly show the clubs are not single length. That includes photos from the late 50s/early 60s.

Peter
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Joined: September 22nd, 2006, 11:35 am

December 5th, 2008, 12:46 am #37

Mark was probably born in the mid 50's. Sorry about that. I had to go back to the Feeling of Greatness story to get this right. Toronto pro.
I sent an email to Mark, and he said that he would be talking about Moe's equipment on his website over the next several months...wouldn't answer questions directly...Grrrr. We shall have to wait to see what unfolds.

Anybody reading this (new Moeites), it doesn't really make any difference to me what kind of equipment he used (other than my obsession with what, actually, was), but I am leaning towards same length clubs from 6-PW for full shots with a heavier, shorter wedge for other shots. I also like the "Sandy" wedge being offered at Natual Golf...makes sense to me.

For me, I am convinced that utility clubs with rounded souls, clubs that are off-set or bent forward three degrees, are the answer for next year's foray onto the golf course.

So the beat goes on.
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Joined: January 28th, 2003, 12:59 pm

December 5th, 2008, 1:41 am #38

I have multiple shots of Moe's golf bag over the years and there is no evidence in any that his irons are all the same length and these shots show the bag from the side vs 'head on'. In addition a simple comparison of club lengths in your favorite Moe video shows that the irons are not the same length and unlikely to be the same lie angle.

Peter
how many of you genteleman had a chance to play golf with Moe. I did on more than one occasion. The first time was in 1979 or 1980 and he had already won a Canadian Senior PGA. The irons he had at that time were different legnths. They were not ground down on the sole to the first scoring line and he told me they had a S/W of E8. They were a Spalding
custom blade with a squrish toe. I hit the 9 iron and it was solid.

His grips at that time were not overly wide but they had very little taper. This was at Foxfire where I worked with Bertholy.

In 1999 or 2000 when on the NG staff his playing clubs away from the NG galleries were a set of the most beautiful Titliest irons I had ever seen. He told me they from the Tour Dept. They were not single legnth either. The grips he liked at that time came from Kenneth Smith. This was in Titusville with his good friend and top Canadian amateur Nick Weslock.
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Joined: September 22nd, 2006, 11:35 am

December 5th, 2008, 3:17 am #39

Hello Doug: What was the idea behind grinding the club down to the first scoring line. I have muscle-backed clubs from that generation, and he would have ground over 1/8 inch of steel from the club. How would you ever add back enough with lead tape to compensate for that much steel being removed to get to an E8? Further, if you ground to the first scoring line, it would be recessed to the hosel?

Did Moe every discuss the logic of this? Do you remember slight grinding of the toe to make it more square?
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 5th, 2008, 7:32 pm #40

how many of you genteleman had a chance to play golf with Moe. I did on more than one occasion. The first time was in 1979 or 1980 and he had already won a Canadian Senior PGA. The irons he had at that time were different legnths. They were not ground down on the sole to the first scoring line and he told me they had a S/W of E8. They were a Spalding
custom blade with a squrish toe. I hit the 9 iron and it was solid.

His grips at that time were not overly wide but they had very little taper. This was at Foxfire where I worked with Bertholy.

In 1999 or 2000 when on the NG staff his playing clubs away from the NG galleries were a set of the most beautiful Titliest irons I had ever seen. He told me they from the Tour Dept. They were not single legnth either. The grips he liked at that time came from Kenneth Smith. This was in Titusville with his good friend and top Canadian amateur Nick Weslock.
Great to have a first hand report.

BTW - For those that don't know Doug he is the source for 'Golf Swing Construction 101' which is the publishing of Paul Bertholy's method. Bertholy was Moe's instructor for about 20 years until Paul passed away.

Peter
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