Plane

Plane

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

May 1st, 2011, 5:59 am #1

Here is an interesting look at swing plane using Trackman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepMzddHpas

Seems to make sense? Might be a good reason to pull that trail foot back away from the target line on a driver swing? And also to use an open stance on an iron swing?

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

May 1st, 2011, 12:00 pm #2

I didn't watch the video, but I did post a link or something (probably last fall) which gives the numbers which produce optimal results.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

May 1st, 2011, 5:14 pm #3

Here is an interesting look at swing plane using Trackman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepMzddHpas

Seems to make sense? Might be a good reason to pull that trail foot back away from the target line on a driver swing? And also to use an open stance on an iron swing?

Regards, Herbert
This video was interesting for me as it explained some things that I did know in a vague way but did not apply to my game very well.

Okay so what I am thinking is that if we have a perfect swing plane with the bottom of the arc aligned with the target line and the clubhead square at the bottom point then a shot with an iron hit with a descending blow will be hit with an inside out path and an open face and a shot with a driver if played forward in the stance with be hit with an outside in path and a closed face. This is assuming a perfect and repeating swing with no compensation. For instance Iron Byron. So it seems that the way to 'fix' Iron Byron so that he hits straight is to shift the alignment to the outside or a closed stance on the driver and to the inside or an open stance on the iron shot. Anything else requires swing or grip compensations. Is this correct? Or do we have to change the grip strength also???

So... if a person wanted to play every shot with the same stance and ball position swing compensations would be required. LOL news flash! Of course every pro knows this and all the books and so on have stance recommendations for the different clubs. Open stance with the irons and gradually squaring up to the driver or maybe even closed as Hogan recommended in 'Five Lessons'.

As for my game I have been hitting more balls then usual lately and I have noticed that I hit straighter by adjusting my stance for the different clubs. I had found that what felt like identical swings with my 3 wood and driver would produce a big pull hook with the three wood and and fade with the driver. I tend to play the 3 wood back in the stance a lot more then driver. Of course my swing is not very repeatable but I can see what I need to do to adjust my setup to to try to make it easier to hit the ball more on target without compensating with my hands. Should make my game a little better! I hope anyway...

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

May 3rd, 2011, 5:50 pm #4

H,

The numbers Trackman came up with were what you might call optimum flight conditions, and they gleaned them from gazillions of actual ball flight data records. To the best of my recollection, this is their explanation for the optimum iron and driver:

The iron needs to strike the ball before the bottom of its swing. Assuming it is square at the bottom, that means the face will be slightly open at impact. Therefore a slight outside in path is needed to hit the ball to the target. I guess we assume it's a slight fade?

The optimum driver is hit after the bottom of the swing. That equates to slightly closed, using the same logic. So the path needs to be slightly inside out. Presumably a draw.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 3rd, 2011, 7:01 pm #5

The face should be square at impact not at the bottom of the arc.

Peter
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

May 3rd, 2011, 7:25 pm #6

Manizella's point as I understand it is that a square face at impact results in a pull hook because the path is inside out. The answer is a slightly open stance to compensate for this. The face would then need to be square to the target and slightly open to the stance. Really only applies to folks with precise repeatable swings. LOL not so much for me!

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 3rd, 2011, 9:44 pm #7

While I understood Manzella's point, if you're not a pro or don't have a trackman available (and maybe even if you do) it's not a lot of help.

For IMA at address you set the club face perpendicular to the line to the place you want the ball to end up and adjust your stance to produce the desired shot shape. After a short period playing this way you know the stance that will produce straight shots as well as draws and fades. In warm up before a given round you can see whether you'll need to adjust because on that day you are hitting them a little different than your normal.

So for IMA you always set the club face to be square to the target line at impact. That may be open, closed or square to the swing path at impact depending on the stance you adopt.

For CG where you are not reproducing impact at address I would not think the ability of a regular guy to compensate for the small variation at impact Manzella discusses would be good.

Peter
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

May 4th, 2011, 5:24 am #8

Isn't it true that if you have the clubhead square to the target at impact you will always miss on the draw or fade side if your path is not straight at the target at impact? In other words an inside path will result in a shot that draws or hooks to the pull side and an outside in path will result in a shot that fades or slices to the push side of the target?

Agree with your other comments...

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 4th, 2011, 9:37 pm #9

Your statement about path may be true at a micro level but at a macro level few golfers actually know what their path is much less keep it sufficiently consistent such that 1-2 degree variations can be tested. When you adjust your stance to produce the desired ball flight to the target with a club face square to the target line you are engaging in a practical exercise at the macro level to produce the results you want. While stance will likely determine path there is not particular reason to believe the two are identical.

Peter
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

May 5th, 2011, 12:12 am #10

I have found it to be true that stance does not necessarily effect plane. I tend to swing more inside out from an open stance and more outside in on a closed stance. The opposite of what would be expected. For instance I have found that if I close my driver stance I tend to pull slice the ball while with a square stance I tend to pull hook or draw the ball. If I set up with the closed stance and concentrate on swinging inside out then I can hit more shots right on my target line with a little draw. The problem is mental and something that I have not figured out how to control. LOL it is hard to set up closed on a hole with ob right and swing out towards the ob from the inside trusting my swing to hit the shot that I 'naturally' hit.

What did Moe call it? Swinging with indifference to the outcome or something like that?

Regards, Herbert
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