PeterMac or MacPeter :-)

PeterMac or MacPeter :-)

Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

October 22nd, 2009, 4:37 pm #1

In the down swing when my lead arm is parallel to
the ground, i notice that if i push off hard with
my trail foot and leg the club whips thru faster.

The question is, should i make this aggressive move
with my trail leg at this point or at another,
or not at all?

JC
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

October 23rd, 2009, 2:31 am #2

by Tommy Armour - the Silver Scott, not the tour pro today, but his dad I think.

In this book he talks a lot about this very move you describe - making the right knee go forward toward the left knee. He says it takes care of all the talk about the hips and everything, without having to think about it.

IMO the move that must happen is the start of the downswing by the lead knee moving back toward the ball, without the arms and shoulders moving at all. After that if you want to drive the trail leg with an aggressive push - have at it! I think if it helps you hit the ball better than why not? Be careful that you don't come forward and push your lead knee / leg out past the outside edge of your lead foot though!

Whenever you find something that helps you make better contact, human nature often causes us to overdo it because it works so good initially. Like Harvey Penick says, take the aspirin, not the whole bottle! If it works, get some video fast for a record, and continue to work on that thing and if it holds up - work on it until it becomes ingrained to the point that you can do it without thinking about it. That's when you really have something.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 23rd, 2009, 1:53 pm #3

In the down swing when my lead arm is parallel to
the ground, i notice that if i push off hard with
my trail foot and leg the club whips thru faster.

The question is, should i make this aggressive move
with my trail leg at this point or at another,
or not at all?

JC
what is important is that your body moves and then the movement is 'arrested' prior to impact. If your body does not move then there is no energy from that movement to be transferred to the club. If your body moves and the movement is not 'arrested' then there is no energy to be transferred to the club. The movement does not have to be (or may not be thought of) as an extra 'push' off the trail leg but if that works then it works.

Peter
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Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

October 23rd, 2009, 7:42 pm #4

by Tommy Armour - the Silver Scott, not the tour pro today, but his dad I think.

In this book he talks a lot about this very move you describe - making the right knee go forward toward the left knee. He says it takes care of all the talk about the hips and everything, without having to think about it.

IMO the move that must happen is the start of the downswing by the lead knee moving back toward the ball, without the arms and shoulders moving at all. After that if you want to drive the trail leg with an aggressive push - have at it! I think if it helps you hit the ball better than why not? Be careful that you don't come forward and push your lead knee / leg out past the outside edge of your lead foot though!

Whenever you find something that helps you make better contact, human nature often causes us to overdo it because it works so good initially. Like Harvey Penick says, take the aspirin, not the whole bottle! If it works, get some video fast for a record, and continue to work on that thing and if it holds up - work on it until it becomes ingrained to the point that you can do it without thinking about it. That's when you really have something.
Mac, you say- IMO the move that must happen is the start of the downswing by the lead knee moving back toward the ball, without the arms and shoulders moving at all.

The lead knee moving back toward the ball- is this a outward move toward
the ball to help drop the club inside?
In other words, is the knee movement different during the down swing
than the back swing?

JC
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Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

October 23rd, 2009, 7:47 pm #5

what is important is that your body moves and then the movement is 'arrested' prior to impact. If your body does not move then there is no energy from that movement to be transferred to the club. If your body moves and the movement is not 'arrested' then there is no energy to be transferred to the club. The movement does not have to be (or may not be thought of) as an extra 'push' off the trail leg but if that works then it works.

Peter
Peter,your comment- 'arrested' prior to impact.

Is that the old thing about - Hitting aganist a firm left-lead side?

JC
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

October 24th, 2009, 3:12 pm #6

what is important is that your body moves and then the movement is 'arrested' prior to impact. If your body does not move then there is no energy from that movement to be transferred to the club. If your body moves and the movement is not 'arrested' then there is no energy to be transferred to the club. The movement does not have to be (or may not be thought of) as an extra 'push' off the trail leg but if that works then it works.

Peter
that tracks the speed of the golfer's hands vs club head speed - ams vs pros....my copy is on my laptop and I think it would very instructive visually to the point you...I know when I saw it for the first time it was like - WOW! the things you don't realize about the differences between them and us!

Also, the reference to that body of work - lots of my "golf epiphany" things are on my laptop which is FUBAR right now with a bad LCD screen.....sigh.

Thanks in advance!
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 25th, 2009, 2:40 am #7

Peter,your comment- 'arrested' prior to impact.

Is that the old thing about - Hitting aganist a firm left-lead side?

JC
That is one of the expressions that translated means you need to 'arrest' or slow down your body movement.

Peter
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 25th, 2009, 2:54 am #8

that tracks the speed of the golfer's hands vs club head speed - ams vs pros....my copy is on my laptop and I think it would very instructive visually to the point you...I know when I saw it for the first time it was like - WOW! the things you don't realize about the differences between them and us!

Also, the reference to that body of work - lots of my "golf epiphany" things are on my laptop which is FUBAR right now with a bad LCD screen.....sigh.

Thanks in advance!
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Peter
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

October 25th, 2009, 7:10 pm #9

Mac, you say- IMO the move that must happen is the start of the downswing by the lead knee moving back toward the ball, without the arms and shoulders moving at all.

The lead knee moving back toward the ball- is this a outward move toward
the ball to help drop the club inside?
In other words, is the knee movement different during the down swing
than the back swing?

JC
JC - "The lead knee moving back toward the ball- is this a outward move toward
the ball to help drop the club inside? In other words, is the knee movement different during the down swing than the back swing?"

If you start with a good set-up and make a good turn ( without swaying or losing the brace of the trail leg ), the lead knee will come back on it's own. To start the downswing the lead knee moves forward so that it eventually ends up over the lead foot.

This ideal first move to start the downswing is an aid to helping the arms "drop the club inside", but it is not a guarantee. You must train for that too! The key is that there must not be an unwinding of the torso / shoulders before the lead knee makes this move. From one of my favs:




Hold a straight edge straight down from his knee cap in the 1st pic, then the second, then the third. You can see that in the 1st and 2nd, his torso and arms haven't moved at all. By the third pic, his arms have begun to drop, and his knee is over his foot. Conventional golfers and those who utilize a "hands high" top of swing position will have to make a drop that causes the club to come "more inside" or on a shallower plane. Trail arm alignment solves this for the most part.

Here is a "pretty good" conventional golfer showing the same movement. More flexible, more athletic, but the key move is the same for two very diferent physiques and swings styles:

Last edited by mcirishman57 on October 25th, 2009, 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

October 25th, 2009, 8:47 pm #10

MAC - Fizzelin around with my lead knee, i notice that
as i move it to start the DS, If i move it outward toward the
ball, weight goes to my toes and it feels like the club wants to
drop inside and my noggin wants to stay back.

As i continue the DS weight moves to my lead heel-
I have not hit any balls with what feels like an exagreted
lead knee movement yet but-

What DYT? I have noticed that good players sometime
finish their swing with what looks like their
lead heel closer to the target than their toes.

What move do they make that gets them in that position?
The move i described above or something similar?

JC
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