Paul Wilsons Iron Byron Swing Machine.

Paul Wilsons Iron Byron Swing Machine.

Joined: October 19th, 2000, 7:49 pm

December 22nd, 2006, 2:57 am #1

Gad, but I hate to admit this, but this guy Wilson just might have found a way to teach us how to hit it longer AND straighter.
I have not always been around so I might be rehashing old stuff, but this is new to me. If so please direct me to the place in the archives where this has been discussed.
Has this been discussed and assigned a place in the SA pantheon or is it also new to you guys.
I am afraid I am going to have to eat a lot of humble pie as in this method he believes that the power is supplied mostly by the body and not the arms. My only consolation is that if I am wrong I have a lot of famous company like the Silver Scott for one. There is also the "feel versus real" argument where you can say it feels like the arms but the power is actually supplied by the body. Kuykendall says the body supplies its part of the power without us consciously thinking about it.
His students are enthusiastic about it and seem to execute it with ease. It seems like you just turn away and then turn back into the ball and swing effortlessly.
Come to think of it though, Bob Davidson, the inventor of the Simple SWing says its all body.
I am going to get the tapes and or Dvd's and see if I can just incorporate his release into my swing.
If he turns out to be right I will be a sadder and wiser man and also a better golfer. I never thought I would find something that would help me hit the ball further and even straighter, then I have in the past.
There are only a few concepts to learn and it looks like it can be learned quickly.
If you haven't already, go to his website and read the free info there and seriously consider trying this program.

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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 22nd, 2006, 10:18 am #2

It is interesting that someone would think they can copy something perfect which is not human. Of couse a machine can swing exactly the same everytime, but to imply that a human can do the same is a bit silly. I do agree that the body powers the swings of all top players today and yesterday. This can be plainly seen in video regardless of what they said they did. In all the best players the body moves first before the arms start down.

The following is taken from Paul Wilson's website at www.swingmachinegolf.

Q. The Iron Byron doesn't look anything like a human golfer, so how can it possibly be used as a model for learning the perfect golf swing?

A. Although at first glance the Iron Byron doesn't look like a human, you have to keep in mind that it was modeled after the swing of golfing legend Byron Nelson ... so a similarity was definitely intended by George Manning and his team of engineers when they built the machine.

In order to see the similarity, you just have to look at it in a different way.

There is a motor beneath the machine's arm that turns a drive shaft that's directly connected to the arm ... so when the motor turns the drive shaft, it causes the arm to move and start the club swinging down. The arm cannot move independently of the drive shaft. It can only move if the motor powers the drive shaft.

The first big difference to understand between man and the machine is that the machine's legs do NOT represent the golfer's legs; it is the machine's motor that represents the golfer's legs. The machine’s drive shaft is equivalent to the golfer's upper body, and the single metal arm is equivalent to the golfer's fully extended left arm during the downswing to impact (and the fully extended right arm past impact) ... so when you turn your legs in a circular motion, this is the motor that makes your hips and upper body turn like the drive shaft of the machine, which causes your extended left arm to move and start the club swinging down toward the ball.

The second big difference to understand is that the machine was NOT designed to do a backswing, just a downswing …so it uses only a downswing plane. Human golfers however, need to create a separate backswing plane in order to get the club into the "slot" at the top of the backswing. Swing Machine Golf explains how to consistently create a backswing plane that gets the club into exactly the same position as Iron Byron at the top. From this position you will be able to replicate the machine’s perfect downswing.

It is important to note that, just like the machine, your arms should NOT move independently of your turning upper body. In the DVDs, George Manning explains that all of their research verified it was the big muscles of the body that should be used to power the golf swing, NOT the little muscles of the arms. This settles the long-standing debate about whether the perfect golf swing is an arms swing or a body swing ... it is indeed, a body swing. Swing Machine Golf will show you how to stop using your arms and start using your body to gain explosive distance and consistently straighter shots. When you master how to do this, your swing will look and feel absolutely effortless.

----------------------------------

My comments:

The machine is fixed so it can only swing on plane. Humans are not. Well maybe exept for Moe.

The machine does not have to keep it's balance. Humans do.

The machine holds the club exactly the same every time. Humans do not.

The machine doesn't have to worry about timing or rythymn. Humans do.

The machine sets up to the ball exactly the same every time. Humans do not.

All that said. I will play this machine for any amount of money on a real golf course anytime. He doesn't stand a chance if we abide by the rules of golf.

Ham
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Joined: October 19th, 2000, 7:49 pm

December 22nd, 2006, 12:20 pm #3

Thanks for taking the time and effort to evaluate the golfing machine. Your insights are indeed welcome.
But he has more info he is not telling us about in his advertisement which come in the form of DVD'S/Tapes which explain his three concepts that you have to know.
I wonder how he deals with "release" He must have it down pretty good if he gets the effortless distance he claims.
It does look simple as hecke with a turn back and then a turn back through. HIs pupils look good doing it. but I would guess that many teachers could show you pictures of their students performing flawlessly. I wonder how students without the bodily ability to turn like he shows will do?
I will investigate further.Maybe he has something that I can incorporate. Maybe his way, even with its faults and drawbacks
is one of the best things out here. I don't think we will know until a bunch of prople go out and try it.
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Joined: August 5th, 2002, 5:38 pm

December 22nd, 2006, 2:14 pm #4

Gad, but I hate to admit this, but this guy Wilson just might have found a way to teach us how to hit it longer AND straighter.
I have not always been around so I might be rehashing old stuff, but this is new to me. If so please direct me to the place in the archives where this has been discussed.
Has this been discussed and assigned a place in the SA pantheon or is it also new to you guys.
I am afraid I am going to have to eat a lot of humble pie as in this method he believes that the power is supplied mostly by the body and not the arms. My only consolation is that if I am wrong I have a lot of famous company like the Silver Scott for one. There is also the "feel versus real" argument where you can say it feels like the arms but the power is actually supplied by the body. Kuykendall says the body supplies its part of the power without us consciously thinking about it.
His students are enthusiastic about it and seem to execute it with ease. It seems like you just turn away and then turn back into the ball and swing effortlessly.
Come to think of it though, Bob Davidson, the inventor of the Simple SWing says its all body.
I am going to get the tapes and or Dvd's and see if I can just incorporate his release into my swing.
If he turns out to be right I will be a sadder and wiser man and also a better golfer. I never thought I would find something that would help me hit the ball further and even straighter, then I have in the past.
There are only a few concepts to learn and it looks like it can be learned quickly.
If you haven't already, go to his website and read the free info there and seriously consider trying this program.
http://www.swingmachinegolf.com/ironbyron.html
Regards,
Bob
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Joined: February 9th, 2005, 11:09 pm

December 22nd, 2006, 3:26 pm #5

Gad, but I hate to admit this, but this guy Wilson just might have found a way to teach us how to hit it longer AND straighter.
I have not always been around so I might be rehashing old stuff, but this is new to me. If so please direct me to the place in the archives where this has been discussed.
Has this been discussed and assigned a place in the SA pantheon or is it also new to you guys.
I am afraid I am going to have to eat a lot of humble pie as in this method he believes that the power is supplied mostly by the body and not the arms. My only consolation is that if I am wrong I have a lot of famous company like the Silver Scott for one. There is also the "feel versus real" argument where you can say it feels like the arms but the power is actually supplied by the body. Kuykendall says the body supplies its part of the power without us consciously thinking about it.
His students are enthusiastic about it and seem to execute it with ease. It seems like you just turn away and then turn back into the ball and swing effortlessly.
Come to think of it though, Bob Davidson, the inventor of the Simple SWing says its all body.
I am going to get the tapes and or Dvd's and see if I can just incorporate his release into my swing.
If he turns out to be right I will be a sadder and wiser man and also a better golfer. I never thought I would find something that would help me hit the ball further and even straighter, then I have in the past.
There are only a few concepts to learn and it looks like it can be learned quickly.
If you haven't already, go to his website and read the free info there and seriously consider trying this program.
I am a firm believer that the body is where power is obtained and not the arms. Jorgenson uses some math and physics to prove it and Mike Austin's method is focused on the body. On the body, I think that the most important element is to drive the swing with the trail shoulder making sure that it ends up lower than the lead shoulder at impact. Look at the trail shoulder of the swing of any skilled golfer and I think you will see what I mean. In order to do this, a significant amount of body involvement is required.
If you look at the Iron Byron swing, you can see how the large disc really simulates the rocking of the shoulders about a pivot- again bringing the trail "shoulder" lower than the lead shoulder at impact.
Start doing this consistently and I believe that you will make great inroads in consistency and distance.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 22nd, 2006, 4:22 pm #6

Gad, but I hate to admit this, but this guy Wilson just might have found a way to teach us how to hit it longer AND straighter.
I have not always been around so I might be rehashing old stuff, but this is new to me. If so please direct me to the place in the archives where this has been discussed.
Has this been discussed and assigned a place in the SA pantheon or is it also new to you guys.
I am afraid I am going to have to eat a lot of humble pie as in this method he believes that the power is supplied mostly by the body and not the arms. My only consolation is that if I am wrong I have a lot of famous company like the Silver Scott for one. There is also the "feel versus real" argument where you can say it feels like the arms but the power is actually supplied by the body. Kuykendall says the body supplies its part of the power without us consciously thinking about it.
His students are enthusiastic about it and seem to execute it with ease. It seems like you just turn away and then turn back into the ball and swing effortlessly.
Come to think of it though, Bob Davidson, the inventor of the Simple SWing says its all body.
I am going to get the tapes and or Dvd's and see if I can just incorporate his release into my swing.
If he turns out to be right I will be a sadder and wiser man and also a better golfer. I never thought I would find something that would help me hit the ball further and even straighter, then I have in the past.
There are only a few concepts to learn and it looks like it can be learned quickly.
If you haven't already, go to his website and read the free info there and seriously consider trying this program.
I don't remember it being discussed here but I've known about it for a number of year. He has a very persistant marketing effort. I signed up at his website to ses some information and for the next 3 years every time there was some sort of special on the package I got an email about it.

I never got the package so I can't comment on the detail but having a huge PVC ring in my backyard that has not been used in a long time, I can say that I don't think swinging on a single plane is practical or ever likely to work in practice. Downswing on a single plae like Moe did yes but not the entire swing. Perhaps his package makes it all clear but it was too much money for me to just buy to be informed.

If you get it let us know what you think. In the meantime I'll check ebay

Peter
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Joined: July 20th, 2004, 9:50 pm

December 22nd, 2006, 5:11 pm #7

I am a firm believer that the body is where power is obtained and not the arms. Jorgenson uses some math and physics to prove it and Mike Austin's method is focused on the body. On the body, I think that the most important element is to drive the swing with the trail shoulder making sure that it ends up lower than the lead shoulder at impact. Look at the trail shoulder of the swing of any skilled golfer and I think you will see what I mean. In order to do this, a significant amount of body involvement is required.
If you look at the Iron Byron swing, you can see how the large disc really simulates the rocking of the shoulders about a pivot- again bringing the trail "shoulder" lower than the lead shoulder at impact.
Start doing this consistently and I believe that you will make great inroads in consistency and distance.
conundrums of golf , to logically think the power comes from the body----only to see someone like trick shot guy
"hitman hiter hit a ball 300 yds, standing on a stick with one foot. I wish it could definitively be answered so we could all work on the correct thing. (or have a short game like corey pavin.)
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Joined: May 11th, 2004, 2:15 am

December 22nd, 2006, 5:19 pm #8

Gad, but I hate to admit this, but this guy Wilson just might have found a way to teach us how to hit it longer AND straighter.
I have not always been around so I might be rehashing old stuff, but this is new to me. If so please direct me to the place in the archives where this has been discussed.
Has this been discussed and assigned a place in the SA pantheon or is it also new to you guys.
I am afraid I am going to have to eat a lot of humble pie as in this method he believes that the power is supplied mostly by the body and not the arms. My only consolation is that if I am wrong I have a lot of famous company like the Silver Scott for one. There is also the "feel versus real" argument where you can say it feels like the arms but the power is actually supplied by the body. Kuykendall says the body supplies its part of the power without us consciously thinking about it.
His students are enthusiastic about it and seem to execute it with ease. It seems like you just turn away and then turn back into the ball and swing effortlessly.
Come to think of it though, Bob Davidson, the inventor of the Simple SWing says its all body.
I am going to get the tapes and or Dvd's and see if I can just incorporate his release into my swing.
If he turns out to be right I will be a sadder and wiser man and also a better golfer. I never thought I would find something that would help me hit the ball further and even straighter, then I have in the past.
There are only a few concepts to learn and it looks like it can be learned quickly.
If you haven't already, go to his website and read the free info there and seriously consider trying this program.
I asked about this book a while back and I believe it was Boris that said it was a nice book for the coffee table. That about summed up his thoughts on it's usefulness.
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Joined: September 27th, 2005, 3:25 am

December 22nd, 2006, 5:20 pm #9

Thanks for taking the time and effort to evaluate the golfing machine. Your insights are indeed welcome.
But he has more info he is not telling us about in his advertisement which come in the form of DVD'S/Tapes which explain his three concepts that you have to know.
I wonder how he deals with "release" He must have it down pretty good if he gets the effortless distance he claims.
It does look simple as hecke with a turn back and then a turn back through. HIs pupils look good doing it. but I would guess that many teachers could show you pictures of their students performing flawlessly. I wonder how students without the bodily ability to turn like he shows will do?
I will investigate further.Maybe he has something that I can incorporate. Maybe his way, even with its faults and drawbacks
is one of the best things out here. I don't think we will know until a bunch of prople go out and try it.
full set of Paul Wilson's Instruction videos plus his book. Paul says if you want to swing like a pro you have to look like a pro. Paul Wilson is from Canada, I think now living in the USA. I asked Mark Evershed about Paul Wilson, Mark's answer to me was how many tournaments as Paul Wilson won".

What do you want to know about Paul Wilson's material?

Igit
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

December 22nd, 2006, 5:42 pm #10

It is interesting that someone would think they can copy something perfect which is not human. Of couse a machine can swing exactly the same everytime, but to imply that a human can do the same is a bit silly. I do agree that the body powers the swings of all top players today and yesterday. This can be plainly seen in video regardless of what they said they did. In all the best players the body moves first before the arms start down.

The following is taken from Paul Wilson's website at www.swingmachinegolf.

Q. The Iron Byron doesn't look anything like a human golfer, so how can it possibly be used as a model for learning the perfect golf swing?

A. Although at first glance the Iron Byron doesn't look like a human, you have to keep in mind that it was modeled after the swing of golfing legend Byron Nelson ... so a similarity was definitely intended by George Manning and his team of engineers when they built the machine.

In order to see the similarity, you just have to look at it in a different way.

There is a motor beneath the machine's arm that turns a drive shaft that's directly connected to the arm ... so when the motor turns the drive shaft, it causes the arm to move and start the club swinging down. The arm cannot move independently of the drive shaft. It can only move if the motor powers the drive shaft.

The first big difference to understand between man and the machine is that the machine's legs do NOT represent the golfer's legs; it is the machine's motor that represents the golfer's legs. The machine’s drive shaft is equivalent to the golfer's upper body, and the single metal arm is equivalent to the golfer's fully extended left arm during the downswing to impact (and the fully extended right arm past impact) ... so when you turn your legs in a circular motion, this is the motor that makes your hips and upper body turn like the drive shaft of the machine, which causes your extended left arm to move and start the club swinging down toward the ball.

The second big difference to understand is that the machine was NOT designed to do a backswing, just a downswing …so it uses only a downswing plane. Human golfers however, need to create a separate backswing plane in order to get the club into the "slot" at the top of the backswing. Swing Machine Golf explains how to consistently create a backswing plane that gets the club into exactly the same position as Iron Byron at the top. From this position you will be able to replicate the machine’s perfect downswing.

It is important to note that, just like the machine, your arms should NOT move independently of your turning upper body. In the DVDs, George Manning explains that all of their research verified it was the big muscles of the body that should be used to power the golf swing, NOT the little muscles of the arms. This settles the long-standing debate about whether the perfect golf swing is an arms swing or a body swing ... it is indeed, a body swing. Swing Machine Golf will show you how to stop using your arms and start using your body to gain explosive distance and consistently straighter shots. When you master how to do this, your swing will look and feel absolutely effortless.

----------------------------------

My comments:

The machine is fixed so it can only swing on plane. Humans are not. Well maybe exept for Moe.

The machine does not have to keep it's balance. Humans do.

The machine holds the club exactly the same every time. Humans do not.

The machine doesn't have to worry about timing or rythymn. Humans do.

The machine sets up to the ball exactly the same every time. Humans do not.

All that said. I will play this machine for any amount of money on a real golf course anytime. He doesn't stand a chance if we abide by the rules of golf.

Ham
How about a long drive contest?

Herbert
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