On course swing...

On course swing...

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 17th, 2011, 4:59 am #1

I tried my MGS swing on the course as shown here on Friday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWVURzldJE8

LOL other than a few really long drives I played so badly I was ready to quit the game by the time I walked off of the course.

So I thought about it for a while on Friday night and my conclusion was that it has been 10+ years since I played very well with the neutral grip and rotation on the backswing that I was trying to use. The reason that I abandoned my strong lead hand grip a few weeks ago was the fact that even though I tend to hit the ball more solidly with the strong lead hand I am always pulling my good shots about 10 to 20 yards left of target which gets tiring after a while. I have never really been able to solve that problem though I have had days where I would overcome it enough to score pretty well and did get my index down to 8.7 that way though it has climbed back up to 10 in the last month.

Anyway I thought that maybe if I combined the closed shoulders MGS setup with the strong grip I would hit it straight. Makes sense on some level right? So before playing today I hit a bucket of balls and started out hitting pretty straight but by the end of the bucket I was wondering if I would have enough balls in my bag to last 18 holes as every shot was left and hooking big time. Even if I managed to start it right of target it was hooking so much as to be completely out of control.

On the last few balls I remembered that with MGS you are supposed to not cock your wrists on the backswing so I tried that with a five iron and bingo long and straight. I raked up a few more balls off of the range and hit several more shots, some of them even off to right a bit! Anyway I tried it on the course and on the front nine I did not score very well partly because I hit quite a few approach and pitch shots over the green not being used to the distance generated by the new action. On the back I was two over with 4 penalty shots one of which was a high slice driver ob and the other was a sandwedge push on a par 3 that hit a cart path and then a tree and then the hard pan and into the poison oak. LOL I birdied the hole with my second ball for a tidy bogey.

Here is what my swing looks like now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EPCfgaGSuM

I am using a rather tight grip and hitting the ball hard which seems to be how I play my best but can look a bit ugly at times...

So what do you think about that?

Regards, Herbert
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gsw
Joined: July 27th, 2000, 11:22 pm

October 17th, 2011, 10:47 pm #2

Hi Herbert

I think that you have probably hit on right combination for striking the ball well with a strong left hand grip. I have improved my ball striking greatly this golf season after switching to "The Straight Lock Grip" from SS. Before switching to this grip I was using my split handed grip. By going to "The Straight Lock Grip" I am able to hold the club at the top of the grip and this gives me a longer club which equals more leverage and more distance. With this grip I don't hit many hooks and that helps me score better.


Stan
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Joined: July 17th, 2006, 1:14 pm

October 18th, 2011, 4:43 am #3

I tried my MGS swing on the course as shown here on Friday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWVURzldJE8

LOL other than a few really long drives I played so badly I was ready to quit the game by the time I walked off of the course.

So I thought about it for a while on Friday night and my conclusion was that it has been 10+ years since I played very well with the neutral grip and rotation on the backswing that I was trying to use. The reason that I abandoned my strong lead hand grip a few weeks ago was the fact that even though I tend to hit the ball more solidly with the strong lead hand I am always pulling my good shots about 10 to 20 yards left of target which gets tiring after a while. I have never really been able to solve that problem though I have had days where I would overcome it enough to score pretty well and did get my index down to 8.7 that way though it has climbed back up to 10 in the last month.

Anyway I thought that maybe if I combined the closed shoulders MGS setup with the strong grip I would hit it straight. Makes sense on some level right? So before playing today I hit a bucket of balls and started out hitting pretty straight but by the end of the bucket I was wondering if I would have enough balls in my bag to last 18 holes as every shot was left and hooking big time. Even if I managed to start it right of target it was hooking so much as to be completely out of control.

On the last few balls I remembered that with MGS you are supposed to not cock your wrists on the backswing so I tried that with a five iron and bingo long and straight. I raked up a few more balls off of the range and hit several more shots, some of them even off to right a bit! Anyway I tried it on the course and on the front nine I did not score very well partly because I hit quite a few approach and pitch shots over the green not being used to the distance generated by the new action. On the back I was two over with 4 penalty shots one of which was a high slice driver ob and the other was a sandwedge push on a par 3 that hit a cart path and then a tree and then the hard pan and into the poison oak. LOL I birdied the hole with my second ball for a tidy bogey.

Here is what my swing looks like now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EPCfgaGSuM

I am using a rather tight grip and hitting the ball hard which seems to be how I play my best but can look a bit ugly at times...

So what do you think about that?

Regards, Herbert
Nice swing, but not quite MGS. No pre-set twist. But, if it's working, great!
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 18th, 2011, 5:12 am #4

I tried my MGS swing on the course as shown here on Friday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWVURzldJE8

LOL other than a few really long drives I played so badly I was ready to quit the game by the time I walked off of the course.

So I thought about it for a while on Friday night and my conclusion was that it has been 10+ years since I played very well with the neutral grip and rotation on the backswing that I was trying to use. The reason that I abandoned my strong lead hand grip a few weeks ago was the fact that even though I tend to hit the ball more solidly with the strong lead hand I am always pulling my good shots about 10 to 20 yards left of target which gets tiring after a while. I have never really been able to solve that problem though I have had days where I would overcome it enough to score pretty well and did get my index down to 8.7 that way though it has climbed back up to 10 in the last month.

Anyway I thought that maybe if I combined the closed shoulders MGS setup with the strong grip I would hit it straight. Makes sense on some level right? So before playing today I hit a bucket of balls and started out hitting pretty straight but by the end of the bucket I was wondering if I would have enough balls in my bag to last 18 holes as every shot was left and hooking big time. Even if I managed to start it right of target it was hooking so much as to be completely out of control.

On the last few balls I remembered that with MGS you are supposed to not cock your wrists on the backswing so I tried that with a five iron and bingo long and straight. I raked up a few more balls off of the range and hit several more shots, some of them even off to right a bit! Anyway I tried it on the course and on the front nine I did not score very well partly because I hit quite a few approach and pitch shots over the green not being used to the distance generated by the new action. On the back I was two over with 4 penalty shots one of which was a high slice driver ob and the other was a sandwedge push on a par 3 that hit a cart path and then a tree and then the hard pan and into the poison oak. LOL I birdied the hole with my second ball for a tidy bogey.

Here is what my swing looks like now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EPCfgaGSuM

I am using a rather tight grip and hitting the ball hard which seems to be how I play my best but can look a bit ugly at times...

So what do you think about that?

Regards, Herbert
Your start downswing vs MGS demonstrated start of downswing:



Peter



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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 18th, 2011, 6:53 am #5

Here is another comparison my old TOS vs. my version of MGS:


Also 6/100 through impact is improved with the stronger grip due to the effect of cocking the lead wrist on the downsing...

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 18th, 2011, 6:59 am #6

Nice swing, but not quite MGS. No pre-set twist. But, if it's working, great!
It looks like no pre twist but it is there, my shoulders are way closed at the start of the video. I guess that it is hard to see from this angle. I have to make a conscious effort to keep the hips from closing too much as that seem to cause pulls and hooks.



Regards, Herbert
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Joined: October 2nd, 2011, 12:23 am

October 18th, 2011, 9:31 am #7

Here is another comparison my old TOS vs. my version of MGS:


Also 6/100 through impact is improved with the stronger grip due to the effect of cocking the lead wrist on the downsing...

Regards, Herbert
I made some screen shots of your video, but do not know how to attach here? So, I'm glad you attached this picture, because your 2 videos go by so quickly, one cannot grab address at all. Also, I just typed out a long reply, then lost it somewhere, cause I still had to copy then re-paste for fear I'd get timed out!

You are VERY MGS compared to before, so much more economy in motion' as I believe Bruce Lee used to say.
Comments on YOUR MGS swing:
You have more of what I term a 'tilt' than a twist.

Try to start with your feet together, turn your head till you are looking at your right heel (a mechanism to push your shoulders back, learnt it from a student once, and it works), then bring your head back, halfway, ie only until you can se the ball.

If you do it right, the whole body, from head to ankles turns, the lower body much less than the upper, though.

How do we know you have not twisted correctly? Your left shoulder should not have remained directly above your left foot. After all, the swing itself has neither weight shift nor shoulder turn, so whatever basic amount is needed happens during the set-up.

Also, the difference between having a pre-set turn and not having one is that in the latter case you have an all-arms pick-up, while in the former, the body and arms remain 'connected', (my version of connected, which is, able to start down in synchronization)

Finally, you make a very nice backswing in terms of the arms (would love to see DTL angle shots too), but need to KEEP the RIGHT SIDE of the body LOWER than the left, all through the backswing. That is my MAGIC MOVE NUMBER ONE! Also, NO TWISTING of body DURING backswing.

Also, probably from your existing swing, is your habit of what I call 'heaving and shoving - body up during backswing, down during downswing - and you should simply pick the left arm up very quietly and isolatedly during the backswing, and not charge into the downswing, LET it happen, don't MAKE it (I know that takes a lot of patience, I've has a heave and shove swing most of my life too!)

Please do post more pics after you try the above set up, and can remain down with the right side. Both FO and DTL angles please.
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gsw
Joined: July 27th, 2000, 11:22 pm

October 18th, 2011, 4:01 pm #8

I tried my MGS swing on the course as shown here on Friday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWVURzldJE8

LOL other than a few really long drives I played so badly I was ready to quit the game by the time I walked off of the course.

So I thought about it for a while on Friday night and my conclusion was that it has been 10+ years since I played very well with the neutral grip and rotation on the backswing that I was trying to use. The reason that I abandoned my strong lead hand grip a few weeks ago was the fact that even though I tend to hit the ball more solidly with the strong lead hand I am always pulling my good shots about 10 to 20 yards left of target which gets tiring after a while. I have never really been able to solve that problem though I have had days where I would overcome it enough to score pretty well and did get my index down to 8.7 that way though it has climbed back up to 10 in the last month.

Anyway I thought that maybe if I combined the closed shoulders MGS setup with the strong grip I would hit it straight. Makes sense on some level right? So before playing today I hit a bucket of balls and started out hitting pretty straight but by the end of the bucket I was wondering if I would have enough balls in my bag to last 18 holes as every shot was left and hooking big time. Even if I managed to start it right of target it was hooking so much as to be completely out of control.

On the last few balls I remembered that with MGS you are supposed to not cock your wrists on the backswing so I tried that with a five iron and bingo long and straight. I raked up a few more balls off of the range and hit several more shots, some of them even off to right a bit! Anyway I tried it on the course and on the front nine I did not score very well partly because I hit quite a few approach and pitch shots over the green not being used to the distance generated by the new action. On the back I was two over with 4 penalty shots one of which was a high slice driver ob and the other was a sandwedge push on a par 3 that hit a cart path and then a tree and then the hard pan and into the poison oak. LOL I birdied the hole with my second ball for a tidy bogey.

Here is what my swing looks like now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EPCfgaGSuM

I am using a rather tight grip and hitting the ball hard which seems to be how I play my best but can look a bit ugly at times...

So what do you think about that?

Regards, Herbert
Hebert
I watched your videos and I think that if you would simply bend your front knee a lot more at address that you would be amazed at the difference in swing stability. When you bend the left knee substantially it forces the right leg to straighten and this locks down the lower body. This will also fix your pulls to the left.


Stan
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 18th, 2011, 4:01 pm #9

Here is another comparison my old TOS vs. my version of MGS:


Also 6/100 through impact is improved with the stronger grip due to the effect of cocking the lead wrist on the downsing...

Regards, Herbert
is 'tighter' (shorter back swing, less hip rotation, less bend back of lead leg) but there is not the larger angle between lead arm and club Kiran exhibits for MGS. Butch Harmon trains his pros including Tiger to a shorter, tighter swing ala your new swing. In fact your new swing positions look similar to what Many coaches and swing systems (including IMA) teach so I don't see anything specific to MGS in the start of downswing position for your new swing.

Peter
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 18th, 2011, 7:19 pm #10

I made some screen shots of your video, but do not know how to attach here? So, I'm glad you attached this picture, because your 2 videos go by so quickly, one cannot grab address at all. Also, I just typed out a long reply, then lost it somewhere, cause I still had to copy then re-paste for fear I'd get timed out!

You are VERY MGS compared to before, so much more economy in motion' as I believe Bruce Lee used to say.
Comments on YOUR MGS swing:
You have more of what I term a 'tilt' than a twist.

Try to start with your feet together, turn your head till you are looking at your right heel (a mechanism to push your shoulders back, learnt it from a student once, and it works), then bring your head back, halfway, ie only until you can se the ball.

If you do it right, the whole body, from head to ankles turns, the lower body much less than the upper, though.

How do we know you have not twisted correctly? Your left shoulder should not have remained directly above your left foot. After all, the swing itself has neither weight shift nor shoulder turn, so whatever basic amount is needed happens during the set-up.

Also, the difference between having a pre-set turn and not having one is that in the latter case you have an all-arms pick-up, while in the former, the body and arms remain 'connected', (my version of connected, which is, able to start down in synchronization)

Finally, you make a very nice backswing in terms of the arms (would love to see DTL angle shots too), but need to KEEP the RIGHT SIDE of the body LOWER than the left, all through the backswing. That is my MAGIC MOVE NUMBER ONE! Also, NO TWISTING of body DURING backswing.

Also, probably from your existing swing, is your habit of what I call 'heaving and shoving - body up during backswing, down during downswing - and you should simply pick the left arm up very quietly and isolatedly during the backswing, and not charge into the downswing, LET it happen, don't MAKE it (I know that takes a lot of patience, I've has a heave and shove swing most of my life too!)

Please do post more pics after you try the above set up, and can remain down with the right side. Both FO and DTL angles please.
Hi Kiran,

Thanks for you comments, much appreciated!

LOL I have been battling the body up on the backswing for some time with limited success. I have to think about keeping my back angled to my legs with my 'normal' swing to keep from rising up and I never have solved the diving into the ball part of it. I will give your suggestions a try and see what happens. LOL I am very coachable or at least I used to be so I will give my best effort. BTW what do you think of the closed clubface at the top? I have used the shut or square to the path clubface for so long now that I can't seem to hit the ball well with a more normal or square to the plane clubface at TOS.


My posting tips and tricks:
To attach pictures I use http://photobucket.com/. Once you upload a picture to photobucket you can hover the mouse over it an get a drop down list and then click on 'direct link' to copy the link and then paste it into your message.

Also you can compose your messages in word or an e-mail app and then copy and paste to post if you like. Also if you timeout when you try to preview your post you can hit the back button a few times and get the text that you typed back again... At any rate if you copy what you typed to the clibboard before hitting preview or respond you can paste it back in again if you get a new posting window.

Regards, Herbert
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