New swing videos from today including single plane

New swing videos from today including single plane

Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 30th, 2008, 4:54 pm #1

Posted some new videos today on both youtube, and magnify.net.


Magnify.net has much higher quality videos. If you click on the little box in just under the video all the way on the right side you can watch full screen in very high quality. You can view videos there at http://golfinfo.magnify.net/

Here is the improved swing from today. I cut down on the head movement and my ball striking improved immediately to what it was over the summer. I think that in trying to increase my swing speed I started moving my head too much. After clicking on the video click the little box below to the right to view in full screen.

8i swing Posted to Golf Info by Ham on December 30, 2008 Click to Play | View Details


Youtube videos can be viewed at the following link. http://www.youtube.com/user/k2golfer

The single plane swings and shots all were very well struck and straight. It is for some reason very easy for me to switch back and forth between the two setups. Conventional is more comfortable for me though. Clubhead speed is about the same.

Best Regards,

Ham
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Joined: September 22nd, 2006, 11:35 am

December 30th, 2008, 6:54 pm #2

Ham, excellent video. Wow. I remember the first picture posted on the single axis forum by Grant, and we were all amazed!!...about 1996 or 97?

You have a wonderful single axis golf swing, along the lines that NG might teach (currently). You might try a couple of things that worked for me, and see what you think about them. I think these changes could, possibly, make your swing more comfortable (as comfortable as your conventional swing), and, deadly, accurate.

Your set-up with the leading arm is nice (takes you awhile to get there!!) but try to stand in such a manner that there is a stright line from your leading shoulder down. Moe varied his stance widthin his playing days. So, if your feet are closer together you will be standing more upright, but there will STILL be that straight line from the leading shoulder down....and that line is part of why the swing works.

Most people who stand like you do at address cannot stump the right leg and have it leaning forward (Scott H. couldn't do this at first, and he weighted OVER the right..trailing..leg.) In order to make it happen your way, i.e., stand like you do and still stump right leg forward, you move near a stack and tilt move...towards that kind of move. If you set-up, properly, you won't do that. This isn't as easy as it sounds, and you have to practice in the mirror a bit, and change your stance width, when you do. (As I remember from your video you would have to have your left leg more forward...wider stance...in order to get that straight line).

As Moe got older he would sometimes stand a little straighter and even jut his hip out a bit (he started to swing more AROUND himself), but, even then, as soon as he starts to swing that straight line is there. Same with Todd Graves...as soon as he starts to swing that straight line is right there. HOWEVER, everybody should START with that straight line, because the move is so INTEGRAL to the success of the swing.

There are three straight lines. Leading left shoulder down is straight, left arm is straight in-line to shaft, and shaft is in line with right arm at impact.

I am fortunate to be living in a place where I meet a lot of old golf pros who played with Moe, and here is another one of what I consider to be a secret.

I was taken by NG when it first came out in 1995. Two years later, I turned to the Journeyman tape, and tried to learn Moe's swing from this tape...I should have gone back another 10-15 years, before he modified his swing to look more "conventional".

What I could never figure out is that ease of turning the upper body full to the target, and this conflicted with Jack K who wanted to face the ball THROUGH impact, to such an extent that he wouldn't bend the left arm at all...see Todd Graves in 1995 Golf Digest article to see this move. Scott H., the new NG and Tom Sanders all pretty much followed the lead on this idea of Jack's, with the stay facing routine. This idea, requires a supple left leg...Scott H. used to say have a soft calf muscle on the leading leg.

I first learned about Moe modifying his swing to look more conventional from one of the senior editor's at Golf Digest. Primarily, he stated that Moe, in his younger days, didn't come out of all his shots....stayed in the hit position.

What I am saying here Ham is to allow the left leg to bend, but give the leading leg RESISTANCE, and this is what causes that upper body to come around so nicely from wedge to driver, after impact.

The left leg resistance allows the club to pass the body faster, and you will find that on some shots you won't bother to come up out of it...in other words you can vary the amount of resistance...you can get a feeling like you are hitting the ball from the middle of your stance...little bit like the feeling of Rotor Golf hitting into that resisted left leg, if you resist it a lot.

You will find yourself hitting your fairway woods with a lot of resistance, long and dead straight. Again, I want to emphasize that you can vary this resistance at will to suit the shot. This is a major difference between the swing developers and Moe.

If a person has ever had any single axis experience, and you learn just these two things, you will become a remarkable ball striker.

Nice job on the video...I enjoyed seeing that.








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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 31st, 2008, 9:57 am #3

Hey Remington,

Thanks for your comments. I guess you have no idea what my experience has been with the Moe swing. I have been involved with learning the swing since 1995 when I was first exposed to it. It took me a while to figure out that the swing developers had it all wrong, or at least mostly wrong. What they said to do was not close to what Moe actually did.

I tried every variation possible, only to find out that they did not know what they were talking about. I know them all personally, as I also knew Moe. I have many hours of video shot of Moe from various clinics he performed. I have seen video of Moe's swing also from his younger days as well. Everybody that has done and taught the Moe swing has an opinion as to how it should be taught, what works and what doesn't. I only taught it for around 8 years to hundreds of students. I learned a lot about what works and what doesn't work because of that experience.

I competed in many Professional events setup like Moe. Even managed to win one. Since then I switched back to conventional as it is more comfortable to me, and I notice no difference in my shotmaking ability. With the videos I posted I hoped to show that there is very little difference between the two swings. The club moves almost exactly the same as does my body, and even the results are very similar. I think with conventional I get a bit better of a ball flight as I can get my hands a bit more ahead at impact due to standing a bit nearer.

The way my golf club moves through the swing is very similar to how Moe's moved in every video I ever saw of him. To me it is not about how Moe's legs moved, or what his body did, or where he started with the club. It is about how his club moved throughout the swing. This club movement is also very similar to how the best pros today move the club.

I think that the Stack and tilt idea works very well for both Moe's swing, and conventional golf.

It is my opinion that many of the movements you are looking at in Moe's swing are his body's reactions needed by him to keep him on balance throughout his swing and enabled him to make great contact time after time. As he setup so far away he had to hit into a bent left leg and move down into impact in order to be able to hit the ball with the hands ahead at impact. Setup a little closer and you do not need to make that move. I find it more repeatable to hit into a straighter left leg. Straight is easy to repeat, bent is always different. You cannot bend the exact same amount every time. Of course Moe hit millions of golf balls learning his move. Most do not have the time or desire to hit that many.

The point about not turning, or facing the ball at impact was IMO the worst advice giving for those wanting to do the Moe swing. Moe never did this in any film I ever saw. His hips were always open at impact. In limiting this action I even managed to injure myself. The forward speed of the golf club needs to go somewhere after impact. If your body does not turn to accept that speed and stop it you need to then need to find another way. IMO there is not another easy way to do that and be a good ballstriker. The hips must be turned towards the target at impact. I have never seen a good balstriker who did not have the hips turned, and turn through to face the target at the end of the swing.

If you have a video of Moe hitting a shot where he never came out of the hitting position as you posted then please post here for all to see.

Also please post a video of yourself hitting balls for people here to see what it is that you do. Time to release that fear of exhibiting your swing and go for it. Just post it. Then maybe people will be able to understand what you are saying better. What better stage then the Internet to exhibit???

Please let me know if anything here is not clear to you.

Best Regards,

Ham
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 31st, 2008, 12:42 pm #4

Posted some new videos today on both youtube, and magnify.net.


Magnify.net has much higher quality videos. If you click on the little box in just under the video all the way on the right side you can watch full screen in very high quality. You can view videos there at http://golfinfo.magnify.net/

Here is the improved swing from today. I cut down on the head movement and my ball striking improved immediately to what it was over the summer. I think that in trying to increase my swing speed I started moving my head too much. After clicking on the video click the little box below to the right to view in full screen.

8i swing Posted to Golf Info by Ham on December 30, 2008 Click to Play | View Details


Youtube videos can be viewed at the following link. http://www.youtube.com/user/k2golfer

The single plane swings and shots all were very well struck and straight. It is for some reason very easy for me to switch back and forth between the two setups. Conventional is more comfortable for me though. Clubhead speed is about the same.

Best Regards,

Ham
Posted some new videos on my Magnify.net site. All videos are at http://golfinfo.magnify.net

Moe Norman Video - Driver down line Posted to Golf Info by Ham on December 31, 2008 Click to Play | View Details

Moe Norman FW wood shot Posted to Golf Info by Ham on December 31, 2008 Click to Play | View Details

I will post more as time permits.

Enjoy!!

Ham
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Joined: September 22nd, 2006, 11:35 am

December 31st, 2008, 3:09 pm #5

Ham: This is a great looking swing that Moe is executing, but one has to watch out, as this sequence was made, during one of the last swing developer influences...kind of a model for the NG swing (modern). Todd or Tim could put this video in perspective.

I got six emails asking what the straight line from the leading shoulder meant. Sorry about that. It means that when Moe addressed the ball, if you drew a straight line from the ankle up to the shoulder that it would be in-line at address.

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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 31st, 2008, 3:41 pm #6

Posted some new videos today on both youtube, and magnify.net.


Magnify.net has much higher quality videos. If you click on the little box in just under the video all the way on the right side you can watch full screen in very high quality. You can view videos there at http://golfinfo.magnify.net/

Here is the improved swing from today. I cut down on the head movement and my ball striking improved immediately to what it was over the summer. I think that in trying to increase my swing speed I started moving my head too much. After clicking on the video click the little box below to the right to view in full screen.

8i swing Posted to Golf Info by Ham on December 30, 2008 Click to Play | View Details


Youtube videos can be viewed at the following link. http://www.youtube.com/user/k2golfer

The single plane swings and shots all were very well struck and straight. It is for some reason very easy for me to switch back and forth between the two setups. Conventional is more comfortable for me though. Clubhead speed is about the same.

Best Regards,

Ham
Moe Norman Driver shot, face on view Posted to Golf Info by Ham on December 31, 2008 Click to Play | View Details

Moe Norman wedge shot Posted to Golf Info by Ham on December 31, 2008 Click to Play | View Details
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

December 31st, 2008, 5:43 pm #7

Ham: This is a great looking swing that Moe is executing, but one has to watch out, as this sequence was made, during one of the last swing developer influences...kind of a model for the NG swing (modern). Todd or Tim could put this video in perspective.

I got six emails asking what the straight line from the leading shoulder meant. Sorry about that. It means that when Moe addressed the ball, if you drew a straight line from the ankle up to the shoulder that it would be in-line at address.
and he was not influenced in this film by any of your so called "swing developers". Moe in this video had read a book by Manuel de la Torre. There is hardly a difference in his swing however, and he hit every ball fantastic.

So if there is something in his swing here that somebody does not like, it definitely had no effect on his ball striking.

Moe always claimed to have some new move, but in his ten or so clinics that I saw there was no difference visible in any of his shots. They almost all flew straight.

Regards,

Ham
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

December 31st, 2008, 8:14 pm #8

I have noticed from the videos that I have seen of Moe that he seemed to do exactly as you mentioned in your post. Always something new and better. Also in one of the articles from the Graves site it mentions that when Moe (young Moe) would not score well for a few holes he would ask his playing partners for advice even though they might not be nearly as good a golfer as Moe was.

I guess that Moe's swing was so ingrained that it did not matter much what he thought about when he swung! Kind of the same as most hacks except that the hacks always hack and Moe always pured it.

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

December 31st, 2008, 11:39 pm #9

Posted some new videos today on both youtube, and magnify.net.


Magnify.net has much higher quality videos. If you click on the little box in just under the video all the way on the right side you can watch full screen in very high quality. You can view videos there at http://golfinfo.magnify.net/

Here is the improved swing from today. I cut down on the head movement and my ball striking improved immediately to what it was over the summer. I think that in trying to increase my swing speed I started moving my head too much. After clicking on the video click the little box below to the right to view in full screen.

8i swing Posted to Golf Info by Ham on December 30, 2008 Click to Play | View Details


Youtube videos can be viewed at the following link. http://www.youtube.com/user/k2golfer

The single plane swings and shots all were very well struck and straight. It is for some reason very easy for me to switch back and forth between the two setups. Conventional is more comfortable for me though. Clubhead speed is about the same.

Best Regards,

Ham
it looks like his whole body makes a slight move back toward the target
even before he finishes his back swing. He dosn't unwind but his whole
body seems to move left or lean left before he finishes his back swing.
I noticed this by looking at the trees behind him.
Is this right.
If it's not right what is he doing? i see a definite movement
near the top.

JC
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Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

December 31st, 2008, 11:46 pm #10

Hey Remington,

Thanks for your comments. I guess you have no idea what my experience has been with the Moe swing. I have been involved with learning the swing since 1995 when I was first exposed to it. It took me a while to figure out that the swing developers had it all wrong, or at least mostly wrong. What they said to do was not close to what Moe actually did.

I tried every variation possible, only to find out that they did not know what they were talking about. I know them all personally, as I also knew Moe. I have many hours of video shot of Moe from various clinics he performed. I have seen video of Moe's swing also from his younger days as well. Everybody that has done and taught the Moe swing has an opinion as to how it should be taught, what works and what doesn't. I only taught it for around 8 years to hundreds of students. I learned a lot about what works and what doesn't work because of that experience.

I competed in many Professional events setup like Moe. Even managed to win one. Since then I switched back to conventional as it is more comfortable to me, and I notice no difference in my shotmaking ability. With the videos I posted I hoped to show that there is very little difference between the two swings. The club moves almost exactly the same as does my body, and even the results are very similar. I think with conventional I get a bit better of a ball flight as I can get my hands a bit more ahead at impact due to standing a bit nearer.

The way my golf club moves through the swing is very similar to how Moe's moved in every video I ever saw of him. To me it is not about how Moe's legs moved, or what his body did, or where he started with the club. It is about how his club moved throughout the swing. This club movement is also very similar to how the best pros today move the club.

I think that the Stack and tilt idea works very well for both Moe's swing, and conventional golf.

It is my opinion that many of the movements you are looking at in Moe's swing are his body's reactions needed by him to keep him on balance throughout his swing and enabled him to make great contact time after time. As he setup so far away he had to hit into a bent left leg and move down into impact in order to be able to hit the ball with the hands ahead at impact. Setup a little closer and you do not need to make that move. I find it more repeatable to hit into a straighter left leg. Straight is easy to repeat, bent is always different. You cannot bend the exact same amount every time. Of course Moe hit millions of golf balls learning his move. Most do not have the time or desire to hit that many.

The point about not turning, or facing the ball at impact was IMO the worst advice giving for those wanting to do the Moe swing. Moe never did this in any film I ever saw. His hips were always open at impact. In limiting this action I even managed to injure myself. The forward speed of the golf club needs to go somewhere after impact. If your body does not turn to accept that speed and stop it you need to then need to find another way. IMO there is not another easy way to do that and be a good ballstriker. The hips must be turned towards the target at impact. I have never seen a good balstriker who did not have the hips turned, and turn through to face the target at the end of the swing.

If you have a video of Moe hitting a shot where he never came out of the hitting position as you posted then please post here for all to see.

Also please post a video of yourself hitting balls for people here to see what it is that you do. Time to release that fear of exhibiting your swing and go for it. Just post it. Then maybe people will be able to understand what you are saying better. What better stage then the Internet to exhibit???

Please let me know if anything here is not clear to you.

Best Regards,

Ham
that the Stack and tilt idea works very well for both Moe's swing, and conventional golf.
You don't seem to do it . Is it more for average golfers?

jc

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